NewEra Posted November 24 Posted November 24 On 11/22/2024 at 6:06 PM, WotAGuy said: Really? You are one of the few I’ve seen that feels Von was worth it. As for Cooper, he has to want to be here as well, and I suspect he will prefer a warm weather team for his next and maybe last big contract. He hasn’t been worth it due to injury. If he hadn’t gotten injured, he would’ve been worth it 💯 imo. if we win the Super Bowl and he plays a part, then he’ll be worth it again. Quote
NewEra Posted November 24 Posted November 24 19 hours ago, 3rdand12 said: Depends on the deal with Rasul , as mentioned above he likely will pursue the money at this point. I see Bills looking hard at CB from outside. If they can keep Douglas and it makes financial sense? I support that as well If he could successfully move to Safety that would be a boon for McD. loving that flexibility for disguise. But then you need to draft one who will start by year two and possibly pay Douglas a bit more than we might like. Nice thought though Douglas isn’t going to resign here and move to safety. corners make more money and he’s still a good starting corner. Zero chance of him moving to S imo. Rapp is entrenched for the next 2 seasons. We drafted Bishop in rd 2. Douglas will play CB somewhere in 25 2 3 Quote
ganesh Posted November 24 Posted November 24 3 minutes ago, NewEra said: Douglas isn’t going to resign here and move to safety. corners make more money and he’s still a good starting corner. Zero chance of him moving to S imo. Rapp is entrenched for the next 2 seasons. We drafted Bishop in rd 2. Douglas will play CB somewhere in 25 Agree. Douglas is gone from this team in 2025. Quote
TFBillsfan Posted November 24 Posted November 24 Cooper will be interesting to see how he wants to finish his career. He’s been with three dysfunctional teams (Raiders, Dallas and Cleveland) before now experiencing BillsMafia and the Buffalo experience. I thought his comments last week were intriguing when he mentioned how much he was enjoying the environment and winning. Does he want to chase money potentially with another dysfunctional team or take less, likely increasing his stats and being part of a team that is a legit SB contender? Quote
GunnerBill Posted November 24 Posted November 24 7 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: This is my best guess as well. I think they'd love to get Douglas back, but there'll be a ceiling they're not willing to go beyond. And Douglas might be able (and willing) to get more elsewhere. Douglas is 30 and generally even fairly big contracts for CBs over 30 (he'll be 31 when the season starts) don't turn out too good too often. He's really been an excellent pickup, so I think they'll hope but will have a ceiling and will tell him if he can get more elsewhere they'll thank him for his Bills service. Guy's been great. They tried to get something done last spring and I understand they were a distance apart on money which is why they just did a bit of a restructure to free up cap room. Douglas has only had one, moderate, pay day by the standards of an NFL player. He will want to maximise the dollars on this deal 1 1 Quote
3rdand12 Posted November 24 Posted November 24 4 hours ago, NewEra said: Douglas isn’t going to resign here and move to safety. corners make more money and he’s still a good starting corner. Zero chance of him moving to S imo. Rapp is entrenched for the next 2 seasons. We drafted Bishop in rd 2. Douglas will play CB somewhere in 25 Thanks I tried to phrase it as an "if " he would grow into FS/SS. I think we often bring this theory up , without much in the way of factually occurring. A bit of fanatasy on my part 🙃 1 Quote
GASabresIUFan Posted November 24 Posted November 24 (edited) First things 1st. We only have 40 players under contract for next year. Douglas, Smoot and Austin Johnson are void year contract liabilities, but are UFAs. They'll add nearly 6.4 to our dead cap next season. Knox and Milano who you'd think might be cap casualties actually have higher dead cap hits than actual cap costs in 2025. I can see a restructuring of both their deals to keep both players, but reduce their 2025 cap cost. We have a similar discussion going from Monday. Here are the 40 players Offense (17) QB (2) - Allen, Trubisky RB (2) - Cook & Davis TE (2) - Kincaid & Knox WR (3) - Coleman, Shakir and Samuel OL (8) - Brown, Clayton, Dawkins, Grable, Edwards, Torrence, McGovern, SVPG Defense (21) DT (3) - Oliver, Jones, Carter Edge/DE (4) - Groot, Miller, Epenesa, Solomon LB (6) - Bernard, Spector, Milano, Andreessen, Ulofoshio & Williams CB (5) - Johnson, Benford, Elam, Ingram & Codrington DB (1) - Lewis S (2) - Bishop & Rapp Specialists (2) - Martin and Bass Dead cap (with 3 deals on void years - Smoot, Douglas & A Johnson) - 11.1 million approx So what do we need? On offense - 2 WRs, 1 depth TE, 1 depth RB, at least 2 OL (Anderson & Van Denmark?). Gore vs Johnson for 3rd RB? Re-sign Amari? On defense - At least 3 DE/DT, maybe a starting CB and depth at safety. Hamlin re-sign? I'm sure Ferguson will be back as the long snapper. Edited November 25 by GASabresIUFan 2 Quote
Rochesterfan Posted November 24 Posted November 24 On 11/22/2024 at 2:49 PM, appoo said: To start, the Bills will carry just $5.4M in Dead cap ($68M this season) with 5 players with Tre White having 4.1M of that. Total Cap Liability - 266M Top 51 - 260M Total Projected Cap space - 8M Total Roster - 45 Probable Cuts Von Miller, 8.4M Net cap savings, 15.4M Dead cap Jalen Virgil - 1M Austin Johnson - 0 (Void year) After Cuts Top 51 - 250.5M Cap Space - 9.5M Roster Size - 43 To get to 54 - 11 Extension: Josh Allen - 8 year, 400M, 15M Signing Bonus (Drop his 2025 Base Salary to ~2M, ~ savings of 10M in 2025) Gregg Rousseau - 5 year 100M, 20M Signing Bonus (Drop his 2025 Base to ~ 3M, ~ savings of 7M in 2025) Rasul Douglas - 2+2 year 8M, 3M Signing Bonus (Drop his 2025 Base to ~1M ~ Savings of 2.5M in 2025) Amari Cooper - 4 year, 60M, 10M Bonus ~ 10M 2025 Cap Hit After Extensions: Top 51 - 240M Cap Space - 10M Roster Size - 43 Restructures Ed Oliver ~ 6.5M Savings Dawson Knox ~ $7M Savings After Restructures Top 51 - 225M Cap Space - 35M Roster Make up Starters Needed 0 Upgrades Desired (obviously up for discussion) 1 - Safety over either Rapp or Cole Bishop 1 - Corner over Rasul Douglas Depth Needed 1 RB 2 WR 1 TE 1 OT 1 DT 1 EDGE 1 Safety Draft Picks - 8 Total 1st Round Pick (Buffalo) 2nd Round Pick (Buffalo) 2nd Round Pick (Minnesota, via Houston) 4th Round Pick (Buffalo) 4th Round Pick (Chicago*) 6th Round Pick (Buffalo) 6th Round Pick (New York Giants) 6th Round Pick (Cleveland) Lots of work - interesting stuff, but I really think they let Douglas and Cooper walk. I think in both cases they are players that will sign for more as FA than what the Bills will sign replacements and get them comp picks in 2026. That allows them to extend Benford - which is much more important to the build of the team. I see Beane continuing with small FA pick ups that fill gaps - so there are limited needs come the draft - and then continuing to hit on picks that develop and provide replacements to the higher price veterans. I do not see them overspending to retain guys like Douglas and Cooper when they can replace them and get free picks back. This is what they have been building to. Quote
SoonerBillsFan Posted November 24 Posted November 24 5 hours ago, NewEra said: Douglas isn’t going to resign here and move to safety. corners make more money and he’s still a good starting corner. Zero chance of him moving to S imo. Rapp is entrenched for the next 2 seasons. We drafted Bishop in rd 2. Douglas will play CB somewhere in 25 Douglass needs to be re-signed this offseason. 11 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said: Lots of work - interesting stuff, but I really think they let Douglas and Cooper walk. I think in both cases they are players that will sign for more as FA than what the Bills will sign replacements and get them comp picks in 2026. That allows them to extend Benford - which is much more important to the build of the team. I see Beane continuing with small FA pick ups that fill gaps - so there are limited needs come the draft - and then continuing to hit on picks that develop and provide replacements to the higher price veterans. I do not see them overspending to retain guys like Douglas and Cooper when they can replace them and get free picks back. This is what they have been building to. Screw comp picks. Sign FA'S you know can play. 1 1 Quote
Big Turk Posted November 24 Posted November 24 7 hours ago, GunnerBill said: They tried to get something done last spring and I understand they were a distance apart on money which is why they just did a bit of a restructure to free up cap room. Douglas has only had one, moderate, pay day by the standards of an NFL player. He will want to maximise the dollars on this deal Can't blame him, it's likely his last good contract. Hopefully they can reach some sort of middle ground where it makes sense for both parties. 1 1 Quote
NewEra Posted November 25 Posted November 25 4 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said: Douglass needs to be re-signed this offseason. Screw comp picks. Sign FA'S you know can play. Need is a strong word. I’m one of his biggest fans and hope that we do…. But I don’t think it’s gonna happen. I think we extend Benford. 1 1 Quote
ganesh Posted November 25 Posted November 25 14 hours ago, Rochesterfan said: Lots of work - interesting stuff, but I really think they let Douglas and Cooper walk. I think in both cases they are players that will sign for more as FA than what the Bills will sign replacements and get them comp picks in 2026. That allows them to extend Benford - which is much more important to the build of the team. I see Beane continuing with small FA pick ups that fill gaps - so there are limited needs come the draft - and then continuing to hit on picks that develop and provide replacements to the higher price veterans. I do not see them overspending to retain guys like Douglas and Cooper when they can replace them and get free picks back. This is what they have been building to. Do we get the comp picks for 2025 or 2026? I thought losing FA in the given year gave me picks in the same year? Quote
Rochesterfan Posted November 25 Posted November 25 30 minutes ago, ganesh said: Do we get the comp picks for 2025 or 2026? I thought losing FA in the given year gave me picks in the same year? It is always the following year. There are parts to the comp plan that can change if teams cut signed FA during the season. So we will be getting Comp picks in the upcoming draft for the FA signings done in this last off season. Quote
juno999 Posted November 25 Posted November 25 On 11/22/2024 at 7:52 PM, LABILLBACKER said: I would happily sign Cooper to a 2 year deal but nothing beyond that. I'm sure he'll want at least 3 years. Emphasis has to go to Groot, Shakir, Benford & Bernard. And yes I'm still drafting a speed wr in April. Douglas is as good as gone. God knows what they're going to do with Elam? Regarding Cooper, Beane would likely add a void year or two to spread out the cap hit. Perhaps a 4yr deal that's really only a 2yr deal. Quote
JP51 Posted November 25 Posted November 25 On 11/22/2024 at 2:49 PM, appoo said: To start, the Bills will carry just $5.4M in Dead cap ($68M this season) with 5 players with Tre White having 4.1M of that. Total Cap Liability - 266M Top 51 - 260M Total Projected Cap space - 8M Total Roster - 45 Probable Cuts Von Miller, 8.4M Net cap savings, 15.4M Dead cap Jalen Virgil - 1M Austin Johnson - 0 (Void year) After Cuts Top 51 - 250.5M Cap Space - 9.5M Roster Size - 43 To get to 54 - 11 Extension: Josh Allen - 8 year, 400M, 15M Signing Bonus (Drop his 2025 Base Salary to ~2M, ~ savings of 10M in 2025) Gregg Rousseau - 5 year 100M, 20M Signing Bonus (Drop his 2025 Base to ~ 3M, ~ savings of 7M in 2025) Rasul Douglas - 2+2 year 8M, 3M Signing Bonus (Drop his 2025 Base to ~1M ~ Savings of 2.5M in 2025) Amari Cooper - 4 year, 60M, 10M Bonus ~ 10M 2025 Cap Hit After Extensions: Top 51 - 240M Cap Space - 10M Roster Size - 43 Restructures Ed Oliver ~ 6.5M Savings Dawson Knox ~ $7M Savings After Restructures Top 51 - 225M Cap Space - 35M Roster Make up Starters Needed 0 Upgrades Desired (obviously up for discussion) 1 - Safety over either Rapp or Cole Bishop 1 - Corner over Rasul Douglas Depth Needed 1 RB 2 WR 1 TE 1 OT 1 DT 1 EDGE 1 Safety Draft Picks - 8 Total 1st Round Pick (Buffalo) 2nd Round Pick (Buffalo) 2nd Round Pick (Minnesota, via Houston) 4th Round Pick (Buffalo) 4th Round Pick (Chicago*) 6th Round Pick (Buffalo) 6th Round Pick (New York Giants) 6th Round Pick (Cleveland) Love this... I would personally like to see an upgrade at DT... I also the DaQuan Jones may be on that list... not sure what that does to the Capology but I am feeling like we are seeing some diminishing play there... I do have hope for what DeWayne Carter can bring to the table. On 11/22/2024 at 7:52 PM, LABILLBACKER said: I would happily sign Cooper to a 2 year deal but nothing beyond that. I'm sure he'll want at least 3 years. Emphasis has to go to Groot, Shakir, Benford & Bernard. And yes I'm still drafting a speed wr in April. Douglas is as good as gone. God knows what they're going to do with Elam? I also want to draft a speedy WR I think we need to continue to draft there top notch FA WR are insanely expensive. Quote
BillsFanForever19 Posted November 25 Posted November 25 (edited) On 11/22/2024 at 2:49 PM, appoo said: To start, the Bills will carry just $5.4M in Dead cap ($68M this season) with 5 players with Tre White having 4.1M of that. Total Cap Liability - 266M Top 51 - 260M Total Projected Cap space - 8M Total Roster - 45 Probable Cuts Von Miller, 8.4M Net cap savings, 15.4M Dead cap Jalen Virgil - 1M Austin Johnson - 0 (Void year) After Cuts Top 51 - 250.5M Cap Space - 9.5M Roster Size - 43 To get to 54 - 11 Extension: Josh Allen - 8 year, 400M, 15M Signing Bonus (Drop his 2025 Base Salary to ~2M, ~ savings of 10M in 2025) Gregg Rousseau - 5 year 100M, 20M Signing Bonus (Drop his 2025 Base to ~ 3M, ~ savings of 7M in 2025) Rasul Douglas - 2+2 year 8M, 3M Signing Bonus (Drop his 2025 Base to ~1M ~ Savings of 2.5M in 2025) Amari Cooper - 4 year, 60M, 10M Bonus ~ 10M 2025 Cap Hit After Extensions: Top 51 - 240M Cap Space - 10M Roster Size - 43 Restructures Ed Oliver ~ 6.5M Savings Dawson Knox ~ $7M Savings After Restructures Top 51 - 225M Cap Space - 35M Roster Make up Starters Needed 0 Upgrades Desired (obviously up for discussion) 1 - Safety over either Rapp or Cole Bishop 1 - Corner over Rasul Douglas Depth Needed 1 RB 2 WR 1 TE 1 OT 1 DT 1 EDGE 1 Safety Draft Picks - 8 Total 1st Round Pick (Buffalo) 2nd Round Pick (Buffalo) 2nd Round Pick (Minnesota, via Houston) 4th Round Pick (Buffalo) 4th Round Pick (Chicago*) 6th Round Pick (Buffalo) 6th Round Pick (New York Giants) 6th Round Pick (Cleveland) There will be 2 compensatory picks for Gabe Davis and Leonard Floyd. Initially projected at a 4th and a 5th - but Gabe Davis not lasting the year may have an effect on his projected 4th: https://overthecap.com/compensatory-picks As others have said, Rasul Douglas will get much more than that, even at his age. If not here, than elsewhere. If we were to retain him - which i'd be surprised if we did, he would continue to start. Kinda confused by the prediction of re-signing him and than listing wanting an upgrade over him. The rest of it looks very good. Awesome job! On 11/22/2024 at 2:58 PM, gonzo1105 said: I don’t think they resign Cooper unless the deal is favorable to them and 15 mill is fine but I’m not sure they want to go 4 years unless a lot of money is front loaded. It would be front loaded or back loaded with void years and an out after 2 years. Our FA contracts with older veterans always have an out. If they don't re-sign Cooper, then we'll be looking for another similar caliber player at WR. Keon Coleman started coming on before the injury and Curtis Samuel seems to have started to bounce back from his. But Shakir, Coleman, and Samuel are the only WR's we have under contract after this year. And I think you'd be playing a dangerous game running back what we started the year with this year and hoping it works better this time around. Especially when you consider the improvement of Coleman and Samuel is at least partially predicated on a player of Cooper's caliber taking attention away from them. WR is one of the harder positions in football to acclimate yourself to from the College to the NFL level. So letting Cooper go and Drafting a guy as his replacement is also a risky proposition. Cooper seems to like it here and his impact (when healthy) has been a pretty big one. At the current juncture, I'd be surprised if they don't get something done with him. But we'll still have to see how things continue down the stretch. Edited November 26 by BillsFanForever19 1 Quote
3rdand12 Posted November 25 Posted November 25 22 hours ago, NewEra said: Need is a strong word. I’m one of his biggest fans and hope that we do…. But I don’t think it’s gonna happen. I think we extend Benford. Benford is a must. Douglas might make himself a reach for Bills , depending on the market and what the Bills value is vs who might replace him without a drop off in skillset. I can hope they retain him , while looking at the draft for nice fit (Ingram) ?? 1 Quote
BillsFanForever19 Posted November 25 Posted November 25 (edited) 9 hours ago, 3rdand12 said: Benford is a must. Douglas might make himself a reach for Bills , depending on the market and what the Bills value is vs who might replace him without a drop off in skillset. I can hope they retain him , while looking at the draft for nice fit (Ingram) ?? Yeah, this is why I see Douglas as unlikely. Unless he has less of a market than is expected. Extending Benford will be the priority and like you said, a must. Taron Johnson in the Nickel is signed long term. Ja'Marcus Ingram has shown up big in spot duty. Kaiir Elam will also be here for one more year. I see us signing a relatively inexpensive (compared to the market) under the radar vet that McDermott believes is a perfect fit for his scheme and then Drafting a guy somewhere on Day 2 or Day 3 and holding a competition for Douglas' replacement. Edited November 26 by BillsFanForever19 1 1 Quote
3rdand12 Posted November 25 Posted November 25 4 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said: Yeah, this is why I see Douglas as unlikely. Unless he has less of a market than is expected. Extending Benford will be the priority and like you said, a must. Taron Johnson in the Nickel is signed long term. Ja'Marcus Ingram has shown up big in spot duty. Kaiir Elam will also be here. I see us signing a relatively inexpensive (compared to the market) under the radar vet that McDermott believes is a perfect fit for his scheme and then Drafting a guy somewhere on Day 2 or Day 3 and holding a competition for Douglas' replacement. Agree with ya about Cooper ^^ And i like the method to replace Rasul. Smart and sounds like McBeane thinking. Besides that , Bills cant afford to replace the older Douglas with a younger equally talented Douglas type. Vet can hold a spot for for one of the younger guns. But one of them need to shine IMO Draft well Beane 1 Quote
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