McDermott among the most aggressive 4th down coaches in the NFL(2nd to Campbell)

[Charles Romes]

I had no problem having Allen pass out of his own endzone last minute against Houston. 

[Matt_In_NH]

4 hours ago, Charles Romes said:

I had no problem having Allen pass out of his own endzone last minute against Houston. 

I agree and disagree….disagree because even McDermott wished he had run it after.  But the reality is if you want aggressive calls you have to live with the times it does not work out.   Its decisions not results, many fans are just emotional and only care about results.  Allen played a bad game that day and his choices on those plays were bad.  It happens. 

Edited December 1 by Matt_In_NH

[Sierra Foothills]

 

In last year's Divisional Round loss to the Chiefs, the Bills:

1. Went for it on 4th & 1 from their own 40 on the game's opening drive. Josh ran for 6 yards for the 1st down.
2. Kicked a FG on 4th & 8 from the KC 9 to complete that same drive. Bills 3-0
3. Punted on 4th & 5 from their own 40 leading 10-6 with 6 minutes left in the 1st half. The Bills netted just 25 yards on the punt and KC drove 65 yards for the TD that gave them a 13-10 lead. The Bills then replied with a 75 yard drive for the TD that would give them a 17-13 halftime lead
4. Attempted a fake punt on 4th & 5 from their own 30, trailing 27-24 early in the 4th quarter. Hamlin was stopped after a 2 yard gain and the Bills turned the ball over on downs. KC took over on the Bills 32 yard line but on the 2nd play while trying to score, Mecole Hardman fumbled through the end zone and the Bills got the ball back on their own 20 via touchback. The turnover resulted from a replay challenge by the Bills, reversing the original ruling of runner down by contact.
5. Punted on 4th & 12 from their own 18 with 10 minutes remaining in regulation, trailing 27-24. The Bills then forced a KC punt after a possession of 5 plays, 8 yards, and 2 minutes and 22 seconds. This led to the Bils final possession starting from their own 20 yard line with over 8 minutes remaining
6. Went for it on 4th & 3 from midfield with under 5 minutes remaining, trailing 27-24. Josh to Shakir for 10 yards to convert.
7. Attempted a 44 yard FG on 4th & 9 from the KC 26 with 1:47 remaining, trailing 27-24. Bass' kick was wide right. There was 1:43 remaining and the Bills had 2 timeouts but KC got the first down needed to run out the clock.

 

[Since1981]

No stat here. But I think McD has learned that his team can get 1 yard. Good OLs help.
 

It can go too far. Remember NFCC game last yr where Campbell got stupid stubborn getting backed up by penalties 4th 12, instead of 3 (twice) and lost by 3. 

[Matt_In_NH]

2 hours ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

In last year's Divisional Round loss to the Chiefs, the Bills:

1. Went for it on 4th & 1 from their own 40 on the game's opening drive. Josh ran for 6 yards for the 1st down.
2. Kicked a FG on 4th & 8 from the KC 9 to complete that same drive. Bills 3-0
3. Punted on 4th & 5 from their own 40 leading 10-6 with 6 minutes left in the 1st half. The Bills netted just 25 yards on the punt and KC drove 65 yards for the TD that gave them a 13-10 lead. The Bills then replied with a 75 yard drive for the TD that would give them a 17-13 halftime lead
4. Attempted a fake punt on 4th & 5 from their own 30, trailing 27-24 early in the 4th quarter. Hamlin was stopped after a 2 yard gain and the Bills turned the ball over on downs. KC took over on the Bills 32 yard line but on the 2nd play while trying to score, Mecole Hardman fumbled through the end zone and the Bills got the ball back on their own 20 via touchback. The turnover resulted from a replay challenge by the Bills, reversing the original ruling of runner down by contact.
5. Punted on 4th & 12 from their own 18 with 10 minutes remaining in regulation, trailing 27-24. The Bills then forced a KC punt after a possession of 5 plays, 8 yards, and 2 minutes and 22 seconds. This led to the Bils final possession starting from their own 20 yard line with over 8 minutes remaining
6. Went for it on 4th & 3 from midfield with under 5 minutes remaining, trailing 27-24. Josh to Shakir for 10 yards to convert.
7. Attempted a 44 yard FG on 4th & 9 from the KC 26 with 1:47 remaining, trailing 27-24. Bass' kick was wide right. There was 1:43 remaining and the Bills had 2 timeouts but KC got the first down needed to run out the clock.

 

Any takeaways from this?  They seem fine except for the fake punt.  Aggressive when the situation called for it and kicked when the down and distance were very unfavorable....

[MarlinTheMagician]

Sometimes folks just can appreciate what they have.

[Sierra Foothills]

5 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

Any takeaways from this?  They seem fine except for the fake punt.  Aggressive when the situation called for it and kicked when the down and distance were very unfavorable....

 

I agree you'd have to nitpick to really criticize the decisions.

 

They settled for a 27 yard FG on 4th & 8 from the KC 9 on the game's opening drive.

 

As someone else pointed out, the 4th and 5 fake punt arguably should have been a regular play.

 

And I suppose they could have gone for it on 4th and 9 from the KC 26 with under 2 minutes left  instead of trying the failed game-tying 44 yard field goal attempt.

 

But those would not really be fair criticisms.

 

 

[MarlinTheMagician]

I do not understand why our fan base so readily accepts that it may have taken rookie Josh a seven year journey for him to become the best version of himself, but has a hard time accepting that a rookie head coach undertakes his own journey, in this case the same seven years.  I don't believe McDermott is the same coach every year.  He should be and I expect is learning from some past errors while keeping what makes him an extremely talented coach. 

Edited December 1 by MarlinTheMagician

[Matt_In_NH]

4 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

I agree you'd have to nitpick to really criticize the decisions.

 

They settled for a 27 yard FG on 4th & 8 from the KC 9 on the game's opening drive.

 

As someone else pointed out, the 4th and 5 fake punt arguably should have been a regular play.

 

And I suppose they could have gone for it on 4th and 9 from the KC 26 with under 2 minutes left  instead of trying the failed game-tying 44 yard field goal attempt.

 

But those would not really be fair criticisms.

 

 

The bad part about the 4th and 9 are the plays that led up to it, Josh this year I dont think gets them to 4th and 9...he probably takes one of the underneath options.  But at 4th and 9, its very very low percentage to convert and you FG percent should be very high there with a 44 yard FG.  it was "just to tie" and they were still dogs even if they hit that FG.....but the miss ended it.

[TheWei44]

The one thing I hope would be different this year is say we had made the FG and KC got the ball with 1:40 on clock in a tied game.  I would hope this year, in that sort of situation against KC and probably other teams as well, that we are very aggressive on D and do not go into a prevent shell.  Pressure the QB, go down swinging, and let the chips fall where they may.  None of the "prevent" crap!

[Thurman#1]

On 11/21/2024 at 5:42 AM, Kelly to Allen said:

There is a common misconception that ppl skeptical about McDermott are critical of him being conservative overall ...This is not true. 

 

I and others worry about McDermott with the psychology of a playoff elimination game and McDermott getting tight in that context 

 

His defense doesn't have to necessarily be great in the playoffs. But it can't be only 6 forced punts in his last 4 elimination games bad. Ppl forget his defense was really bad vs the colts in the wildcard but Allen and Davis went alien mode and we survived in 20 until the afc championship. 

 

I need something similar to how KC defense played in the 22 playoff 

 

For context the ravens forced KC to punt 7 times in just the AFC championship 

 

 

It's just not true that the D was bad against the Colts.

 

You can say that they had some problems through much of it. They also put it away in the end. The Bills offense punted in their last drive and the The Colts got the ball back at the end of the 4th quarter with 2:30 left at their own 14. The Bills D just choked them out. They ran 13 plays and gained 39 yards. Ran out of time at the Bills 47 yard line. Allowed 24 points. To a team that averaged 28.2 PPG.

 

Far from great, but not a bad game.

 

The last two years the defense has been just devastated with guys out, and important guys too. They still played decent, particularly against the Chiefs last year, but they just weren't healthy enough to play well. People can say, "next guy up," and all that, but it's just a fact that teams with a ton of injuries to key guys don't generally do that well. That's just the way it goes.

 

The D has been good in the playoffs except for against the Chiefs, really. You can throw in the Bengals game if you want, but that was clearly a team just having a terrible day, with nobody playing well. And for good reason the way that year went, what with Knox's brother dying, and Hamlin and the blizzards and the mass shootings and all the rest.

 

They haven't been able to stop the Chiefs from scoring well enough. Not many teams have the last few years ... that's why all those Lombardis are where they are.

 

They've got to get past the Chiefs. Whose offense doesn't seem to be as good this year, and here's hoping that continues.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, MarlinTheMagician said:

I do not understand why our fan base so readily accepts that it may have taken rookie Josh a seven year journey for him to become the best version of himself, but has a hard time accepting that a rookie head coach undertakes his own journey, in this case the same seven years.  I don't believe McDermott is the same coach every year.  He should be and I expect is learning from some past errors while keeping what makes him an extremely talented coach. 

 

Nicely put.

[MarlinTheMagician]

11 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

It's just not true that the D was bad against the Colts.

 

You can say that they had some problems through much of it. They also put it away in the end. The Bills offense punted in their last drive and the The Colts got the ball back at the end of the 4th quarter with 2:30 left at their own 14. The Bills D just choked them out. They ran 13 plays and gained 39 yards. Ran out of time at the Bills 47 yard line. Allowed 24 points. To a team that averaged 28.2 PPG.

 

Far from great, but not a bad game.

 

The last two years the defense has been just devastated with guys out, and important guys too. They still played decent, particularly against the Chiefs last year, but they just weren't healthy enough to play well. People can say, "next guy up," and all that, but it's just a fact that teams with a ton of injuries to key guys don't generally do that well. That's just the way it goes.

 

The D has been good in the playoffs except for against the Chiefs, really. You can throw in the Bengals game if you want, but that was clearly a team just having a terrible day, with nobody playing well. And for good reason the way that year went, what with Knox's brother dying, and Hamlin and the blizzards and the mass shootings and all the rest.

 

They haven't been able to stop the Chiefs from scoring well enough. Not many teams have the last few years ... that's why all those Lombardis are where they are.

 

They've got to get past the Chiefs. Whose offense doesn't seem to be as good this year, and here's hoping that continues.

 

 

 

 

Nicely put.

 

11 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

It's just not true that the D was bad against the Colts.

 

You can say that they had some problems through much of it. They also put it away in the end. The Bills offense punted in their last drive and the The Colts got the ball back at the end of the 4th quarter with 2:30 left at their own 14. The Bills D just choked them out. They ran 13 plays and gained 39 yards. Ran out of time at the Bills 47 yard line. Allowed 24 points. To a team that averaged 28.2 PPG.

 

Far from great, but not a bad game.

 

The last two years the defense has been just devastated with guys out, and important guys too. They still played decent, particularly against the Chiefs last year, but they just weren't healthy enough to play well. People can say, "next guy up," and all that, but it's just a fact that teams with a ton of injuries to key guys don't generally do that well. That's just the way it goes.

 

The D has been good in the playoffs except for against the Chiefs, really. You can throw in the Bengals game if you want, but that was clearly a team just having a terrible day, with nobody playing well. And for good reason the way that year went, what with Knox's brother dying, and Hamlin and the blizzards and the mass shootings and all the rest.

 

They haven't been able to stop the Chiefs from scoring well enough. Not many teams have the last few years ... that's why all those Lombardis are where they are.

 

They've got to get past the Chiefs. Whose offense doesn't seem to be as good this year, and here's hoping that continues.

 

 

 

 

Nicely put.

Thank you kindly!  What a game tonight1

 

[dma0034]

I've never thought McDermott was conservative. I've always felt he's coached scared in the playoffs. Like when the Defense starts to falter he never seems to be able to stop the bleeding and doesn't adjust when teams are picking apart his zone defense.

 

Bills have played more Man this year and against the 49ers I saw them break out of the 2 safety shell.... that's what I need to see in the playoffs. Like if the Bills play the Ravens the Bills need to stuff the box and make Lamar beat them with his arm. He can't just rely on negative plays and penalties. 

[GunnerBill]

17 hours ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

I agree you'd have to nitpick to really criticize the decisions.

 

They settled for a 27 yard FG on 4th & 8 from the KC 9 on the game's opening drive.

 

As someone else pointed out, the 4th and 5 fake punt arguably should have been a regular play.

 

And I suppose they could have gone for it on 4th and 9 from the KC 26 with under 2 minutes left  instead of trying the failed game-tying 44 yard field goal attempt.

 

But those would not really be fair criticisms.

 

 

 

4th and 7 or longer the math on going for it is much less persuasive. 

 

I think the only mistake in that game was if you are willing to fake punt then you should be willing to just put it in Josh Allen's hands. He is your best player. Damar Hamlin is not.