MVP hype for Allen

[strive_for_five_guy]

49 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Going to get flamed here, but in most other years Allen is the runaway MVP. He yet may still win it this year.  This is the best he has ever played.  No player means more to his team than Allen does, even Barkley.  Being the first NFL QB to get 40 TDs 5 years in a row is unreal, but MVP is a single season - regular season award.  

 

Lamar Jackson going for 4000 yards and 900 rushing has never been done before - I know 17 games vs 16 but it is still unprecedented. He has 13 more TD passes than Allen and his TD/INT ratio is ridiculous.  His passer rating is 18 points higher than Allen's. This season is also the best he has ever played.

 

Burrow leads the league in passing yards and TDs, and has a higher passer rating than Allen.  He has lead his team with one of the worst defenses in the league to a possible playoff spot.  You can make an argument even with how great Jackson has been, Burrow has been the better QB. 

 

Barkley's rushing season is more historic than Allen's.  His season is 8th best all time, and he is one decent carry away from a top 5 all time season.  

 

In any other year Allen is MVP, but in this one year you can make a case he isn't even in the top 3.

Someone can try to make the case that Allen isn’t even top 3 for MVP, but they’d be wrong.  You acknowledge yourself that no one means more to their team than Allen.  When Hurts went out for the 2nd half against Washington, all the sudden Barkley did nothing, which further highlights that Barkley has needed Hurts to be as great as he’s been this season.  Regarding Burrow, there has never been an MVP with 8 losses, only Barry Sanders was an MVP with 7 losses.  Wins matter when it comes to being MVP.  Even Burrow acknowledges he shouldn’t win MVP, as they aren’t even going to win their division.  The only viable alternative MVP candidate to Josh is Lamar.

[oldmanfan]

It is Most VALUABLE.  I think yesterday showed Lamar might not even be the most valuable on his team, and it’s hard to make Burrow’s case if the don’t make the playoffs.  OTOH, it is clear there’s no way the Bills sniff the playoffs let alone have a 13-3 record without Allen.

[Doc]

16 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said:

Seriously, this Burrow crap needs to stop. Leading the league in passing yards and touchdowns doesn’t mean you’re the MVP of the league. There’s no way you can convince me that someone with half a mind of their own, someone who is not just parroting what they hear on tv/radio, actually thinks Burrow is a serious MVP candidate. You are clearly only looking at stats with absolutely ZERO context whatsoever. The guy isn’t even setting any records, he’s just having a good statistical season.

 

So clearly all of these amazing stats Burrow has had the Bengals as the 1 seed right? 

No? Well then they are the 2 or 3 seed and have won their division, I have to be right there, aren’t I?

 

No? Oh well then fine, they are at least in the playoffs, because we know these stats translated to his team consistently winning throughout the season….right? 
 

No again?!?! You mean to tell me the Bengals STILL need 2 teams to lose today, on the final day of the season, just for them to make the Playoffs??

 

Have I gotten my point across because I laid it on pretty thick

 

Burrow has some serious weapons on offense in Chase, Higgins and Gesicki, and even Iosivas and Chase Brown.  But if his defense hadn't let him down and the refs didn't screw them against the Chefs, they'd be in the playoffs.

Edited Sunday at 02:39 PM by Doc

[All_Pro_Bills]

24 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Burrow has some serious weapons on offense in Chase, Higgins and Gesicki, and even Iosivas and Chase Brown.  But if his defense hadn't let him down and the refs didn't screw them against the Chefs, they'd be in the playoffs.

True. But when I watch the Bengals offense I'm more amazed by the athletic and playmaking abilities of Chase and Higgins than I am about Borrow's efficient and effective QB play. 

If the Bills and Allen had both those guys their offense would be unstoppable.

As it is Josh does more with less support than Borrow and Jackson with more wins than either. For that, Allen is MVP.

Edited Sunday at 03:01 PM by All_Pro_Bills

[YoloinOhio]

The odds are what they are, fully expect Josh to win. We won’t know until like a month from now though so hopefully the debates can cease for a bit. 

[Ya Digg?]

28 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Burrow has some serious weapons on offense in Chase, Higgins and Gesicki, and even Iosivas and Chase Brown.  But if his defense hadn't let him down and the refs didn't screw them against the Chefs, they'd be in the playoffs.

That doesn't make him an MVP candidate though.  I mentioned this before, but Drew Brees routinely threw for over 5,000 yards, but he was never a serious candidate for MVP until the defense around him improved.  Burrow isn't putting up the stats Brees was so he's in the same boat.

 

The guy's stats HAVE to contribute to the team consistently winning.  Again, Burrow's stats aren't even record breaking, they are just good stats

[BillsFan130]

23 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

The odds are what they are, fully expect Josh to win. We won’t know until like a month from now though so hopefully the debates can cease for a bit. 

It's not over quite yet.

 

Josh still has one more opportunity to deliver a beautiful handoff to James Cook today. This could make or break his MVP bid 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

2 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Going to get flamed here, but in most other years Allen is the runaway MVP. He yet may still win it this year.  This is the best he has ever played.  No player means more to his team than Allen does, even Barkley.  Being the first NFL QB to get 40 TDs 5 years in a row is unreal, but MVP is a single season - regular season award.  

 

Lamar Jackson going for 4000 yards and 900 rushing has never been done before - I know 17 games vs 16 but it is still unprecedented. He has 13 more TD passes than Allen and his TD/INT ratio is ridiculous.  His passer rating is 18 points higher than Allen's. This season is also the best he has ever played.

 

Burrow leads the league in passing yards and TDs, and has a higher passer rating than Allen.  He has lead his team with one of the worst defenses in the league to a possible playoff spot.  You can make an argument even with how great Jackson has been, Burrow has been the better QB. 

 

Barkley's rushing season is more historic than Allen's.  His season is 8th best all time, and he is one decent carry away from a top 5 all time season.  

 

In any other year Allen is MVP, but in this one year you can make a case he isn't even in the top 3.

 

MVP is not a purely stats award. Sure you easily can make the case Allen is not top 3 if you go purely by stats. But the problem the other two QB's and even Saquan have is that none of them lead in the other meaningful categories over Allen that have always factored into MVP: team record, roster weakness (players perceived value to team), and historically defining moments and games. Jim Nantz "play of the year" on Allen's 4th and 2 TD run still holds true at the end of the season barring something crazy happening in the Vikings/Lions game. Josh's historic 4 game run beating the two touted best teams in the league is what put this team in the position to sit players this week. 

 

Allen has been the MVP favorite since "the play of the year". He's been MVP favorite more because of historic moment and value and nothing has changed that as the weeks and games have gone.  

 

When it comes strictly to stats, that is what 1st team all pro and offensive player of the year awards are for. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

You are absolutely gonna get flamed but you are right, Lamar has a really good case because his year has been insane.

 

It doesn’t matter though. Purdy had an incredible statistical season last year and wasn’t close. And Lamar won’t get 3 MVPs before he’s made a Super Bowl. 
 

The money is rightly on Josh. 

 

Agree regarding why Purdy, and even Dak to a lesser extent were never in the MVP conversation last year after the Ravens beat the 49ers late in the year.  I don't agree with all of those saying Lamar cannot win a 3rd MVP before he starts winning Super Bowls or starts playing better in the playoffs. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 hour ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

 

 

Lamar's little spin-o-rama to celebrate before his guy caught it is unique I'll give him that. Absolutely no bearing on the play though.

 

 

 

Except Allen did the same thing in the Lions game after what should have been TD # 5 on the game. But a hold call they never showed called the play back. 

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

21 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Except Allen did the same thing in the Lions game after what should have been TD # 5 on the game. But a hold call they never showed called the play back. 

 

Allen starts pointing downfield and turns to the sideline, he doesn't do a full spin like Lamar did. Allen turns his head to look straight at Kincaid when he catches it

 

That's after Allen pump faked to juke an unblocked defender, draws in another defender with his legs as he runs to the line of scrimmage, and then makes a ridiculous 10 yard shovel pass to the endzone. 

 

Truly a "one of one" play. Such a shame it was called back on a bogus penalty. 

[Sojourner]

The whole “Lamar deserves MVP” is in full effect this morning with the…

 

“Lamar becomes founder of 4000-900 club”

 

Makes me think it is Josh or someone else other than Lamar winning. 
 

The sadder part is you didn’t see this narrative for anyone who was worthy of the award last year. Granted it’s not as strong but there wasn’t even a drum of support for 17. 

[scuba guy]

2 hours ago, Ya Digg? said:

Seriously, this Burrow crap needs to stop. Leading the league in passing yards and touchdowns doesn’t mean you’re the MVP of the league. There’s no way you can convince me that someone with half a mind of their own, someone who is not just parroting what they hear on tv/radio, actually thinks Burrow is a serious MVP candidate. You are clearly only looking at stats with absolutely ZERO context whatsoever. The guy isn’t even setting any records, he’s just having a good statistical season.

 

So clearly all of these amazing stats Burrow has had the Bengals as the 1 seed right? 

No? Well then they are the 2 or 3 seed and have won their division, I have to be right there, aren’t I?

 

No? Oh well then fine, they are at least in the playoffs, because we know these stats translated to his team consistently winning throughout the season….right? 
 

No again?!?! You mean to tell me the Bengals STILL need 2 teams to lose today, on the final day of the season, just for them to make the Playoffs??

 

Have I gotten my point across because I laid it on pretty thick

One of the other items from last year for lamar was that his team was in first place for the afc.  Know his team is in 3rd place and the talking heads aren't even saying anything about what place his team is in.  Lamar also has tantrums on the field when things aren't going that well for him.  It's is really when he is playing poorly.  But they kept saying he is so much improved and throws a great ball.  Yikes it is still a wobbly duck.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

3 minutes ago, Sojourner said:

The whole “Lamar deserves MVP” is in full effect this morning with the…

 

“Lamar becomes founder of 4000-900 club”

 

 

It's the first time ever Lamar has thrown for 4,000 yards in his career and he needed a 17th game to do so. That is supposed to be celebrated?

[scuba guy]

6 minutes ago, Sojourner said:

The whole “Lamar deserves MVP” is in full effect this morning with the…

 

“Lamar becomes founder of 4000-900 club”

 

Makes me think it is Josh or someone else other than Lamar winning. 
 

The sadder part is you didn’t see this narrative for anyone who was worthy of the award last year. Granted it’s not as strong but there wasn’t even a drum of support for 17. 

It is just really sad that they are trying to push this.  Sorry to say I am still in the boat that he is a high school option qb and still has not changed that much.

[KingBoots8]

2 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

It's the first time ever Lamar has thrown for 4,000 yards in his career and he needed a 17th game to do so. That is supposed to be celebrated?

Hey, don’t forget he punched down on the Giants well after the game was over to keep adding to those stats

[scuba guy]

2 minutes ago, KingBoots8 said:

Hey, don’t forget he punched down on the Giants well after the game was over to keep adding to those stats

Yup all about padding his stats.  meanwhile Josh sits on the sidelines for 6 quarters of football because his team is up big. And will not get many stats for today.

Edited Sunday at 04:48 PM by scuba guy
Added

[Goin Breakdown]

12 hours ago, Playoffs? said:

The Ravens are 3-5 when Henry rushed for under 100 yards. Teams have to stack the box with Henry back there. That puts one less pass defender back there for Lamar to worry about. 
 

In contrast, Buffalo is 9-3 when Cook didn’t rush for 100 yards. Our run game doesn’t scare anyone per se, and teams are t stacking the box… they’re protecting against Allen. 
 

That’s what I think at least…

You're right on. And to your point, teams aren't doing a great job at stopping Allen even when that's their primary goal. 

[pennstate10]

1 hour ago, Sojourner said:

The whole “Lamar deserves MVP” is in full effect this morning with the…

 

“Lamar becomes founder of 4000-900 club”

 

Makes me think it is Josh or someone else other than Lamar winning. 
 

The sadder part is you didn’t see this narrative for anyone who was worthy of the award last year. Granted it’s not as strong but there wasn’t even a drum of support for 17. 

Most of the talking head blowhards on espn aren’t voters, so their opinions are irrelevant. Someone linked a list of about 50 voters a while back. It includes the older, established professional writers, like Vic Carucci, Peter King, etc. Theyre not giving a 3rd mvp to a player who hasn’t made a Super Bowl. They understand the meaning of value. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

4 hours ago, Strethor said:

You are making an argument for MVP about stats, it's most valuable and entirely controlled by media narratives. The narrative was last year that Allen turns the ball over and plays hero ball. He's stopped turning the ball over. The narrative was he can't produce without a Diggs. He has had his best season without Diggs. Our skill position players are dependable but are not world beating guys, it's mostly our OL that's great. Our skill position players will fail to get to 1000 yards, the tape reads like Allen is raising the offense (also Brady but Allen is the driver). I think if you remove Allen from Buffalo we miss the playoffs. He represents what the MVP award is. The narrative with Ravens fans was to suppress anything about stats last year and now it's the most important factor when Allen has beat both #1 seeds. 

 

 

I totally understand your take and mostly agree. But you have to admit stats matter to a large degree. You can lots of players matter to the success of their team. Look waht happened to Dolphins without Tua. Dallas without Dak.  Take Daniels away from Washington and they win 5 games.  Take Lamar away from Henry and Henry is not getting anywhere near the rush yards he has. It goes both ways with Jackson and Henry. 

I do think the turnover narrative was real and ultimately prevented Allen from winning it last year. I don't understand why people think there is a narrative for Lamar to win the MVP. Don't know where that comes from. The media love all great QBs. 

In the end I think Allen wins it but my cases for the other players are still valid.

4 hours ago, Ya Digg? said:

Seriously, this Burrow crap needs to stop. Leading the league in passing yards and touchdowns doesn’t mean you’re the MVP of the league. There’s no way you can convince me that someone with half a mind of their own, someone who is not just parroting what they hear on tv/radio, actually thinks Burrow is a serious MVP candidate. You are clearly only looking at stats with absolutely ZERO context whatsoever. The guy isn’t even setting any records, he’s just having a good statistical season.

 

So clearly all of these amazing stats Burrow has had the Bengals as the 1 seed right? 

No? Well then they are the 2 or 3 seed and have won their division, I have to be right there, aren’t I?

 

No? Oh well then fine, they are at least in the playoffs, because we know these stats translated to his team consistently winning throughout the season….right? 
 

No again?!?! You mean to tell me the Bengals STILL need 2 teams to lose today, on the final day of the season, just for them to make the Playoffs??

 

Have I gotten my point across because I laid it on pretty thick

I get your point. And yes no playoffs and no way he is in MVP discussion. 

So when Allen was great last year and the Bills defense was garbage almost missing the playoffs, it was still an MVP performance.

But when Burrow overcomes a trash defense it is not. I got it.