MVP hype for Allen

[Kelly to Allen]

21 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Passer rating an advanced stat😂😂

Lol relax

I'm not putting anyone down. Nobody is trading the bills offensive roster for the Ravens. It's not a knock it's just the way it is

 

This is delusional 

[UKBillFan]

8 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen said:

 

It's definitely weird. Allen can be MVP while acknowledging the talent actually upgraded from last year. The size and athletic ability at wr improved drastically. Kincaid is going to be a legitimate star imo. 

 

Cook is versatile and has skills similar to Kamara. I loved Ray Davis in the draft, thought he was rb1 in the draft and only dropped a couple RDS because he was 24.

 

The defense fully healthy is much better than the seasons total sum of numbers. Cole Bishop is a rookie and has had some struggles but his athletic ability is light years ahead of anything at safety in the past couple years. The cb room is stacked 

 

Maybe phili or KC could be argued as slightly better but IDK. 

 

KC has only lost to buffalo in like their last 22 games lol

He's saying now I think 

 

For all the praise of Kincaid, I actually think he's been a disappointment this year and, if anything, has regressed from last season. Cooper hasn't actually provided much in terms of receiving though I love the signing. The O Line is great, agreed.

 

As per my discussion with Simon yesterday, the defense doesn't stand up to the eye test. Especially when compared to the likes of the Ravens.

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen said:

 

This is delusional 

 

Stop lol

 

There are a ton of former NFL people who have been discussing the MVP race and nauseum

 

Not a single one says Lamar doesn't have more to work w on offense

[Doc Brown]

6 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen said:

You're just wrong dude. It's quite possibly the best team since the 90 team. We set a record for points and, two borderline all pro tackles lol. They tied a record for 30 point games. This is with a few games in hand and playing ball control in the second half 

Talent wise this team's not close to the best ever.  Especially on defense.  What they are really good at is not turning the ball over and forcing turnovers.  The turnovers help explain why we're the offense is 2nd in points scored but 9th in total yards.  Same goes for the defense which is 11th in points against but 20th in yards allowed.  This points to excellent coaching.  

[julian]

20 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen said:

You're just wrong dude. It's quite possibly the best team since the 90 team. We set a record for points and, two borderline all pro tackles lol. They tied a record for 30 point games. This is with a few games in hand and playing ball control in the second half 

 

They have the second highest point differential in the NFL. They're basically tied for second in SRS and dvoa. They destroyed the number one SRS in Detroit on the road 

Last year for Cleveland 

Exactly, Shakir at this point in his career is better than diggs and much more explosive/ dangerous 

 

 

Nobody is gonna argue the team isn’t excellent, they can be the best team since the 90s and not have a top 5 roster in the NFL, which is exactly the case.

 

 We’ll agree to disagree.

37 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Top 5 (at worst) oline

top 5 rb

a top 5 wr current leader in receiving yards

maybe the most underrated wr in the league nfl

a 2nd round rookie wr who has has good moments 

a former 1st round TE

 

a head coach with a .662% and has made the playoffs every year except Allen’s rookie year. 
 

again, Allen will win the MVP but these is a very good to potentially great franchise who helped a wild guy from Wyoming grow into a MVP. The Buffalo Bills are a top 5 nfl franchise 

 

I’m beyond relaxed. I think Allen and Jackson are both awesome QBs who help elevate good to great talent around them. 
 

the Ravens and Bills are top 5 nfl franchises who helped Allen and Jackson grow into the players they are. The team you get drafted to matters as we see with the Jets and Panthers. 

Unfortunately you’ll be reminded how great of a franchise the Bills are when Allen walks out the door, maybe they hit the jackpot on another QB right away, we all pray for that lol.

[Kelly to Allen]

17 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

 

Stop lol

 

There are a ton of former NFL people who have been discussing the MVP race and nauseum

 

Not a single one says Lamar doesn't have more to work w on offense

 

So if we blow them out in the playoffs you'll change your mind? 

[VW82]

20 minutes ago, davefan66 said:

 NFL network. Steve Wyche says “does it hurt Josh playing in the weak AFC East?”

 

Listen. If any of you talking head DB’s actually watched Josh play...

 

That being said, Josh will lose the MVP race...

 

On talking heads not having watched Josh, I agree. He makes plays every week that maybe 5-6 others players in the league are even physically able to make. I doubt all these guys watched every one of our games. Did anyone other than Bills and Jets fans see the narrow escape and scramble to the sideline throw up field to Coleman last week that he dropped? That was a one of one play. 

 

I disagree he's going to lose the MVP race. No one will admit it, but voters will let the "Lamar isn't 3 MVPs to 0 better than Allen" narrative influence them.  

[Kelly to Allen]

11 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Talent wise this team's not close to the best ever.  Especially on defense.  What they are really good at is not turning the ball over and forcing turnovers.  The turnovers help explain why we're the offense is 2nd in points scored but 9th in total yards.  Same goes for the defense which is 11th in points against but 20th in yards allowed.  This points to excellent coaching.  

The eye test and numbers suggest otherwise. 

 

They made the two one seeds look inferior 

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Kelly to Allen said:

 

So if we blow them out in the playoffs you'll change your mind? 

Sure

 

Which is more than you can say considering they already blew us out in the regular season😂😂

[Kelly to Allen]

7 minutes ago, julian said:

Nobody is gonna argue the team isn’t excellent, they can be the best team since the 90s and not have a top 5 roster in the NFL, which is exactly the case.

 

 We’ll agree to disagree.

Unfortunately you’ll be reminded how great of a franchise the Bills are when Allen walks out the door, maybe they hit the jackpot on another QB right away, we all pray for that lol.

Praying 🙏 that Beane is still here to pick the next one 

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

Sure

 

Which is more than you can say considering they already blew us out in the regular season😂😂

 

The 1990 bills got blown out by Miami on the road earlier in that season. How did that work out 😂 

Edited Saturday at 08:43 PM by Kelly to Allen

[GoBills808]

Just now, Kelly to Allen said:

Praying 🙏 that Beane is still here to pick the next one 

 

The 1990 bills got blown out by Miami. How did that work out 😂 

This was your premise. I'd be running away from it too tbh

 

 

[Gugny]

1 minute ago, Kelly to Allen said:

Praying 🙏 that Beane is still here to pick the next one 

 

The 1990 bills got blown out by Miami on the road earlier in that season. How did that work out 😂 

Doug Whaley picked Josh Allen. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@Rico

[Beck Water]

3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Thanks for proving my point. We have had arguably the best o line in the NFL. Cook isn’t Henry but he has produced as top 5 rb the last 2 years (he outgained Henry in 2023). The gain between Flowers and Shakir isn’t that big and Cooper has 1,300 yards and is top in current receiving yards. The only major gap is TE where we have a first rounder and a guy who has had some productive seasons. 
 

We have good players surrounding a great one. Stop putting them down to give Allen his props. He’s going to win the MVP anyways.

 

Dude.  Just stop.  You don't get to combine two seasons of stats for a player only when it serves your point (like Cook outgaining Henry last season, which is actually untrue 1167 for Henry 1122 for Cook, true only if you look at Y/Sc which is apples to oranges depending upon the offense and who is throwing to him - Will Leavis?).  I have no idea where you get Cooper has 1300 yds and is "top in current receiving yards" - where is "current receiving yards a thing and what does it mean?  Cooper has 547 receiving yards on the year, by the way, 250 in 6 games for Cleveland and 297 in 8 games for Buffalo.  That's 37 ypg for BUF and 39 overall, by the way, which is 70th in the league.

 

Yes, we have good players on the Bills and no one is "putting them down".  The Cold Hard Football Facts is that Henry has been having a superb year as a rusher, 2nd in total yards to Barkley on 40 fewer attempts; they are equivalent in yards per attempt.   Saying Saquan is having a more productive year for the Eagles is not putting Henry down; it's a fact.  Maybe Henry could have been as productive given 40 more carries, but the fact is - he wasn't, so he isn't.

James Cook is 17th for yards and 10th for yards per attempt.  He's a very good back.  But no one knowledgeable would put him above Henry or even in the same room.

 

Flowers and Shakir are playing somewhat different roles for their respective teams.  Flowers is being used more downfield and overall has an average depth of target (10 ish) twice what Shakir's is (5 ish).  They are both very good YAC guys, but that's the difference between Flowers 14+ YPT and Shakir's 10+.  The difference between contributing 55 and 65 YPG is significant, over the season it's the difference between a top-20 WR and a guy who is barely in the #20-40 range. 

Again, I'm not trying to dunk on Shakir; as far as I can tell, Shakir has been playing primarily from the slot and 76 receptions and >800 yds is excellent for a slot receiver.  It's a level Cole Beasley exceeded twice in his 11 year NFL career, in 2016 with Dallas and in 2020 with Buffalo.  And because of how teams were playing us, Beasley got more depth of target then, and had to shake-n-bake fewer YAC.  (Zay Flowers also gets more depth of target from the slot because of the run threat Henry poses)

Please try to move on from the notion that facts are equivalent to putting players down.

 

Again, I think Cook and Shakir are very good players.  But I don't think you'd find many guys who know ball (or gals) who would swap either out for Henry and Flowers at this point.

29 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen said:

 

This is delusional 

 

26 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

 

Stop lol

 

There are a ton of former NFL people who have been discussing the MVP race and nauseum

 

Not a single one says Lamar doesn't have more to work w on offense

 

LOL and while I enjoy my arguments with @GoBills808, when we align on something....the person we're disagreeing with really ought to hit "pause"

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, BillsFan130 said:

You also said no chance that Baltimore wins against Houston and Denver when they literally gave up 12 points combined lol.

 

I said 7-9 wins. It's my opinion. Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong. Same for you, maybe you're right or wrong. We will never know 

 

I tried to say let's agree to disagree as we aren't going to change our minds, but for some reason you are just bringing it back full circle

 

I guess you are having a different conversation. 
 

but …

Playing versus a bad QB you can’t assume the game would unfold the same way for Denver or Houston as it did playing Lamar.  That’s intuitively true.  Everything might be different: time of possession, number of possessions, ints…..
 

 

[BillsFan130]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

I guess you are having a different conversation. 
 

but …

Playing versus a bad QB you can’t assume the game would unfold the same way for Denver or Houston as it did playing Lamar.  That’s intuitively true.  Everything might be different: time of possession, number of possessions, ints…..
 

 

Literally just hand the ball off to Derrick Henry, make simple play action throws and you win those games very comfortably. Denver and Houston could not move the ball and the scores were 41-10 and 31-2... lol. 

 

Lamar is amazing, but he doesn't make a 31 point difference in football games lol

[UKBillFan]

17 minutes ago, VW82 said:

 

On talking heads not having watched Josh, I agree. He makes plays every week that maybe 5-6 others players in the league are even physically able to make. I doubt all these guys watched every one of our games. Did anyone other than Bills and Jets fans see the narrow escape and scramble to the sideline throw up field to Coleman last week that he dropped? That was a one of one play. 

 

I disagree he's going to lose the MVP race. No one will admit it, but voters will let the "Lamar isn't 3 MVPs to 0 better than Allen" narrative influence them.  

 

That feels like that cheapens MVP for Josh, though."You've only got it cos Lamar's been awarded it twice already..." I felt this when Romo inferred that during commentary last week.

[Kelly to Allen]

22 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

This was your premise. I'd be running away from it too tbh

 

 

 

So by your logic it's transitive? Because that's not how football works 

6 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

 

That feels like that cheapens MVP for Josh, though."You've only got it cos Lamar's been awarded it twice already..." I felt this when Romo inferred that during commentary last week.

It actually cheapens it giving it to Lamar. The longer he keeps failing in the playoffs the more the award loses prestige and becomes less validated. 

 

It's the opposite, the more championships you win, the more deserving you are to get the award. 

 

If Allen wins the Superbowl, he should be even more favored to win MVP again next year. 

 

 

20 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Dude.  Just stop.  You don't get to combine two seasons of stats for a player only when it serves your point (like Cook outgaining Henry last season, which is actually untrue 1167 for Henry 1122 for Cook, true only if you look at Y/Sc which is apples to oranges depending upon the offense and who is throwing to him - Will Leavis?).  I have no idea where you get Cooper has 1300 yds and is "top in current receiving yards" - where is "current receiving yards a thing and what does it mean?  Cooper has 547 receiving yards on the year, by the way, 250 in 6 games for Cleveland and 297 in 8 games for Buffalo.  That's 37 ypg for BUF and 39 overall, by the way, which is 70th in the league.

 

Yes, we have good players on the Bills and no one is "putting them down".  The Cold Hard Football Facts is that Henry has been having a superb year as a rusher, 2nd in total yards to Barkley on 40 fewer attempts; they are equivalent in yards per attempt.   Saying Saquan is having a more productive year for the Eagles is not putting Henry down; it's a fact.  Maybe Henry could have been as productive given 40 more carries, but the fact is - he wasn't, so he isn't.

James Cook is 17th for yards and 10th for yards per attempt.  He's a very good back.  But no one knowledgeable would put him above Henry or even in the same room.

 

Flowers and Shakir are playing somewhat different roles for their respective teams.  Flowers is being used more downfield and overall has an average depth of target (10 ish) twice what Shakir's is (5 ish).  They are both very good YAC guys, but that's the difference between Flowers 14+ YPT and Shakir's 10+.  The difference between contributing 55 and 65 YPG is significant, over the season it's the difference between a top-20 WR and a guy who is barely in the #20-40 range. 

Again, I'm not trying to dunk on Shakir; as far as I can tell, Shakir has been playing primarily from the slot and 76 receptions and >800 yds is excellent for a slot receiver.  It's a level Cole Beasley exceeded twice in his 11 year NFL career, in 2016 with Dallas and in 2020 with Buffalo.  And because of how teams were playing us, Beasley got more depth of target then, and had to shake-n-bake fewer YAC.  (Zay Flowers also gets more depth of target from the slot because of the run threat Henry poses)

Please try to move on from the notion that facts are equivalent to putting players down.

 

Again, I think Cook and Shakir are very good players.  But I don't think you'd find many guys who know ball (or gals) who would swap either out for Henry and Flowers at this point.

 

 

LOL and while I enjoy my arguments with @GoBills808, when we align on something....the person we're disagreeing with really ought to hit "pause"

 

 

I'll say it, James Cook at his age, with his explosive ability and versatility as a receiving rb is more valuable than Henry 

 

He's possibly out best all around RB since the Thurmanator

 

I'll bet you cook has a much better postseason than Henry 

Edited Saturday at 09:06 PM by Kelly to Allen

[Big Blitz]

Ryan Clark on this pregame tried to once again clarify his Barkley - Allen analogy.  
 

The problem isn’t that it’s stupid and doesn’t make sense.  
 

The problem is this moron is liking Lamar and his *checks notes* 2 playoff wins to Michael Jordan.  
 

F…ing joke.   

[GoBills808]

3 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen said:

 

So by your logic it's transitive? Because that's not how football works 

It actually cheapens it giving it to Lamar. The longer he keeps failing in the playoffs the more the award loses prestige and becomes less validated. 

 

It's the opposite, the more championships you win, the more deserving you are to get the award. 

 

If Allen wins the Superbowl, he should be even more favored to win MVP again next year. 

 

 

Bro

 

You said 'if the Bills blow out the Ravens will you change your mind' wrt the comparative quality of rosters

 

I just pointed out by that metric the question has already been resolved. ie you don't know what the word transitive means and you're not very good at making your case

[Kelly to Allen]

2 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

Ryan Clark on this pregame tried to once again clarify his Barkley - Allen analogy.  
 

The problem isn’t that it’s stupid and doesn’t make sense.  
 

The problem is this moron is liking Lamar and his *checks notes* 2 playoff wins to Michael Jordan.  
 

F…ing joke.   

 

The dude is a better version of kordell Stewart in this era ( kordell went to 2 AFC championships) and Clark says this insane nonsense. It's so cringe and weird 

 

Like how is this not disrespectful to Mahomes. Can we please for the love of God live in reality. 

 

 

Edited Saturday at 09:09 PM by Kelly to Allen