MVP hype for Allen

[BillsFan130]

5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

If both teams had equal backup skill (let's say...Josh Johnson), neither is winning 6, let alone 9 games.  You don't take the 2 most dynamic QBs in the league off your roster and have a winning season.  That's just crazy.

Ya I don't think 9. But I think ravens would still win 8 with a component backup. ( Not Josh Johnson though who's a horrible backup lol)

 

Raiders, Browns twice, Giants, Denver, Washington, Houston, Cowboys - Those are the games I think ravens would win with an average to above average backup 

Edited Saturday at 05:15 PM by BillsFan130

[Mr. WEO]

3 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

Ya I don't think 9. But I think ravens would still win 8 with a component backup. ( Not Josh Johnson though who's a horrible backup lol)

 

Raiders, Browns twice, Giants, Denver, Washington, Houston, Cowboys - Those are the games I think ravens would win with an average to above average backup 

 

Johnson is their backup.  I don't know what a component  backup is.  

 

regardless, there's no chance they beat Washington, Denver, Houston. 

[BillsFan130]

14 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Johnson is their backup.  I don't know what a component  backup is.  

 

regardless, there's no chance they beat Washington, Denver, Houston. 

Andy Dalton,  Justin Fields, Brissett, Browning etc.

 

Houston's only points against Baltimore came off a safety and Denver got 10 points against Baltimore lol..

 

It would literally be "no chance" they lose those games against those teams with a backup. Washington one you can debate, Houston and Denver you don't have much of an argument there

 

Edited Saturday at 05:37 PM by BillsFan130

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

51 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

without looking, do you know who the Ravens backup is?

 

 

 

 

 

It's Josh Johnson.  yes that guy--draft 16 years ago!  in and out of the league for years.  THAT guy is winning 9 games playing  in the AFC North??

 

come on....

 

 

what kind of argument is that?

 

make me the backup QB in Philly. We would have to proclaim Hurts the most valuable player even with Saquan on the team.

[BillsFan130]

1 minute ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

what kind of argument is that?

 

make me the backup QB in Philly. We would have to proclaim Hurts the most valuable player even with Saquan on the team.

Exactly the point ^. Thank you 

[Mr. WEO]

31 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

Andy Dalton,  Justin Fields, Brissett, Browning etc.

 

Houston's only points against Baltimore came off a safety and Denver got 10 points against Baltimore lol..

 

It would literally be "no chance" they lose those games against those teams with a backup. Washington one you can debate, Houston and Denver you don't have much of an argument there

 

 

You can't just invent guys to put on a roster to make your point (Brissett and Browning stink, Fields was a starter this season.

 

Anyway, as below, you can't assume the Offense will be as functional with the backup and the Offense wouldn't miss a beat without Jackson--that's just intuitively true.  There's no reason to look at Josh Johnson (their actual backup) and say he's beating 3 playoff teams.  stop...lol

 

26 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

what kind of argument is that?

 

make me the backup QB in Philly. We would have to proclaim Hurts the most valuable player even with Saquan on the team.

 

 a factual one.  It would not be possible for the Ravens to win 9 games with Johnson--no matter how they are otherwise stacked. you can't stick a guy like Johnson in there and expect the entire Offense to carry on as though Jackson is still behind Center.  

 

If you were the backup in Philly, that's a 3 win team.  doesn't make their QB the MVP.  It's just common sense.  If all they had was Barkley as their playmaker, they would be very easy to defend as the pass would simply be taken away.

Edited Saturday at 06:06 PM by Mr. WEO

[Billsfanatic8989]

Allen and Lamar are great. Both of their backups suck. But that doesn't help their MVP case. Most NFL backups suck. If they start, your team is usually doomed. Bo Nix>Stidham doesn't make Nix suddenly a valuable commodity.

 

I can see voters falling for recency bias while Lamar carves up Cleveland on national tv, and Allen is out of sight and mind this week. You hope this doesn't happen. 

 

Anytime they are on the one=a Lamar running or passing TD. 

 

 

 

 

Edited Saturday at 06:13 PM by Billsfanatic8989

[BillsFan130]

10 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

You can't just invent guys to put on a roster to make your point (Brissett and Browning stink, Fields was a starter this season.

 

Anyway, as below, you can't assume the Offense will be as functional with the backup and the Offense wouldn't miss a beat without Jackson--that's just intuitively true.  There's no reason to look at Josh Johnson (their actual backup) and say he's beating 3 playoff teams.  stop...lol

 

 

 a factual one.  It would not be possible for the Ravens to win 9 games with Johnson--no matter how they are otherwise stacked. you can't stick a guy like Johnson in there and expect the entire Offense to carry on as though Jackson is still behind Center.  

 

If you were the backup in Philly, that's a 3 win team.  doesn't make their QB the MVP.  It's just common sense.  If all they had was Barkley as their playmaker, they would be very easy to defend as the pass would simply be taken away.

The point is , you're using Josh Johnson as an example to say ravens would have be brutal without Lamar. Ok fine, no disagreement there

 

But the original argument was Lamar would have fewer wins compared to Josh if a backup QB came in. And im trying to equate that by saying hypothetically speaking, let's say the backup QB is equal for both teams and that backup is component. (Unlike Johnson)

Cause if im the backup to Lamar compared to Andy Dalton being the backup to Josh, then it's not a fair argument and of course Lamar would be "more valuable" lol

 

 

Edited Saturday at 06:15 PM by BillsFan130

[Goin Breakdown]

2 hours ago, pennstate10 said:

This is why yds per snap is a better measure than yds per game. 
Allen has >100 fewer snaps than Burrow and 60 fewer than Jackson heading into this wknd

Yep and he's already sat out the equivalent of a game this season because of blowing out teams still be like 2 games of non Allen play. 

[Billsfanatic8989]

14 hours ago, Kelly to Allen said:

 

 

I don't agree with this sentiment. Buffalo has an outstanding roster and is a quite possibly the best in the NFL. 

 

 

Other than QB, what player/position keeps opposing coordinators up at night? Who is the gamechanger on defense that takes games over consistently?

 

We know for a fact that Baltimore has a gamechanger behind Lamar. Literally and figuratively.

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

The point is , you're using Josh Johnson as an example to say ravens would have be brutal without Lamar. Ok fine, no disagreement there

 

But the original argument was Lamar would have fewer wins compared to Josh if a backup QB came in. And im trying to equate that by saying hypothetically speaking, let's say the backup QB is equal for both teams and that backup is component. (Unlike Johnson)

Cause if im the backup to Lamar compared to Andy Dalton being the backup to Josh, then it's not a fair argument and of course Lamar would be "more valuable" lol

 

 

 

that was the point I was responding to.  if you want to change the argument to equal backup--use Johnson (as I already did). Or Mitch--doesn't matter. 

 

But, if you insist: when the overwhelmingly vast majority of your Offense is a function of your otherworldly franchise QB, there's no logical reason to believe some scrub (like Dalton) is winning 9 games on either roster. pretty simple.  Derrick Henry isn't overcoming that....

[BillsFan130]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

that was the point I was responding to.  if you want to change the argument to equal backup--use Johnson (as I already did). Or Mitch--doesn't matter. 

 

But, if you insist: when the overwhelmingly vast majority of your Offense is a function of your otherworldly franchise QB, there's no logical reason to believe some scrub (like Dalton) is winning 9 games on either roster. pretty simple.  Derrick Henry isn't overcoming that....

I believe if they had Dalton like Justin fields, they would win between 7-9 games. I listed the 8 games I thought they would win.  if you disagree , all good and we can respectfully disagree.

[Billsfanatic8989]

OT: But how different do you think the team looks with Henry at RB?

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

I believe if they had Dalton like Justin fields, they would win between 7-9 games. I listed the 8 games I thought they would win.  if you disagree , all good and we can respectfully disagree.

 

Dalton was benched for Fields, lol. so, no....

 

 

[Amaru523]

5 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

I believe if they had Dalton like Justin fields, they would win between 7-9 games. I listed the 8 games I thought they would win.  if you disagree , all good and we can respectfully disagree.

If Lamar got hurt, I highly doubt the Ravens would stick it out with Josh Johnson, I'd bet money they'd go get a better QB. They have incredible talent on both sides of the ball, hard for me to believe they only win 6 games without Lamar.

 

But yes, the original point I was trying to make was that the Bills would struggle the most without their QB. I know it's last year so it doesn't count (according to Bengals fans), but the Bengals played 7 games without Burrow and went 4-3, they were 5-5 with him. 

[strive_for_five_guy]

27 minutes ago, Billsfanatic8989 said:

Allen and Lamar are great. Both of their backups suck. But that doesn't help their MVP case. Most NFL backups suck. If they start, your team is usually doomed. Bo Nix>Stidham doesn't make Nix suddenly a valuable commodity.

 

I can see voters falling for recency bias while Lamar carves up Cleveland on national tv, and Allen is out of sight and mind this week. You hope this doesn't happen. 

 

Anytime they are on the one=a Lamar running or passing TD. 

 

 

 

 

I think voters have likely made up their mind already, but still pulling for the Browns to give Lamar some problems today.  Myles Garrett is supposedly playing, so maybe he can cause issues?

[BillsFan130]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Dalton was benched for Fields, lol. so, no....

 

 

I mean, now we can go down a rabbit hole if you’re gonna bring that up lol. It was fields rookie year so it should go without saying he was the placeholder for him.
 

Also Not sure how that has any relevance to the convo, as I think inarguably they are both respected backups in the league 

[Kelly to Allen]

25 minutes ago, Billsfanatic8989 said:

Other than QB, what player/position keeps opposing coordinators up at night? Who is the gamechanger on defense that takes games over consistently?

 

We know for a fact that Baltimore has a gamechanger behind Lamar. Literally and figuratively.

 

Possibly the best oline in the NFL 

A te room that is top 5 and future star in Kincaid 

A young Kamara in cook

A possible future Brandon Marshall in Coleman 

A legitimate number one and perennial pro bowl wr in Cooper 

The next Andre Reed in Shakir 

Hollins is extremely underrated

Samuel healthy is important as we saw how good he was vs KC 

 

Ray Davis would be rb1 on many rosters and reminds me of more instinctive, slightly faster Travis Henry 

 

Rousseau has been one of the most dominant dlineman in the NFL this year. He reminds me of Charles Mann or Sean Jones 

 

Oliver is one of the most explosive 3techs in the NFL 

 

Von Miller can still take over a game and tilt the field 

 

Our linebackers fully healthy are awesome 

 

Benford has played at a borderline all pro level 

 

We have another all pro in Johnson 

 

The safety position is mixed with veteran's and youth

 

And we have maybe the best 3rd down rb in the NFL 

 

There is a reason we are awesome 😎 

Edited Saturday at 06:47 PM by Kelly to Allen

[Mr. WEO]

8 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

I mean, now we can go down a rabbit hole if you’re gonna bring that up lol. It was fields rookie year so it should go without saying he was the placeholder for him.
 

Also Not sure how that has any relevance to the convo, as I think inarguably they are both respected backups in the league 

 

Except Young isn't a backup. (nor is he a rookie).  He doesn't belong in this convo.

 

scroll up to see how it evolved.  A poster said their backup could win "at least 9" games for the Ravens, given the talent on that roster.  impossible.

 

if you want to invent other backups for the Ravens, such as Andy Dalton, he  has no chance of leading them to 9 wins, let alone more.  

Edited Saturday at 06:47 PM by Mr. WEO

[BillsFan130]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Except Young isn't a backup. (nor is he a rookie).  He doesn't belong in this convo.

 

scroll up to see how it evolved.  A poster said their backup could win "at least 9" games for the Ravens, given the talent on that roster.  impossible.

 

if you want to invent other backups for the Ravens, such as Andy Dalton, he  has no chance of leading them to 9 wins, let alone more.  

You also said no chance that Baltimore wins against Houston and Denver when they literally gave up 12 points combined lol.

 

I said 7-9 wins. It's my opinion. Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong. Same for you, maybe you're right or wrong. We will never know 

 

I tried to say let's agree to disagree as we aren't going to change our minds, but for some reason you are just bringing it back full circle