MVP hype for Allen

[strive_for_five_guy]

13 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

The Media pundits are out in full force this morning proclaiming Lamar as MVP! Lots of links go check their opinions for yourself. I sense Josh is about to miss out on the award again. After seeing the Pro Bowl picks above (and I think they'll be right) the Ravens will have many more Stars to help Lamar than the Bills do. However, one article even went so far as to say the Bills Defense/Special Teams, and his so-called betrayal index, were much stronger than what Lamar and Burrow have? Are you kidding me? He doesn't even address the skill positions on offense supporting these guys, just ignores it. Oh well just win the Super Bowl and F these awards.

Which media pundits specifically?

[Stretch]

4 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

Which media pundits specifically?

The one he is talking about at the end is The Athletic.  It is the second article from them that was touting Lamar.

[JESSEFEFFER]

9 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

First Super Bowl game would be a decent reason

Certainly the best of all.  My sense is that Josh is somewhat disdainful of the Pro Bowl.  This might be due to previous snubs, or the lingering disappointment of a playoff loss and needing to step away from football or a having a beat up body that wants nothing more demanding to do than swinging a golf club at the Pro/Am.  We have discussed this before at TBD so I know I am not the only one that thinks this.

 

TBD topic/253065-josh-allen-not-in-pro-bowl-because-of-pebble-beach-tee-time-minshew-going-as-alternate

[Stretch]

13 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Anyone interested in watching a pretty good discussion by 2 pretty thoughtful Football guys, watch Robert Mayes and Derek Classon talk about Lamar vs Josh. Both say it's basically a coin flip but Mayes makes the Josh argument and it's centered around the WR separation argument Dan Orlovsky brought up earlier this week... except Mayes spent some time actually going back and watching every single throw by both QBs.

 

He brings up several other interesting metrics, too.

 

MVP conversation starts at 1:05 and is about 15 minutes long;

 

 

Thanks for the link, it was a good review.  I really liked the stat about 39% of Ravens WRs being wide open within seconds of the snap on throws, far and away the most in the league.  The stats really are so close, with Lamar barely ahead.  But if you watch the games, it does seem like Allen made more of the big-time throws in important games.  And it is hard to see voting going against what it has been for the past decade or more, the best QB on a top 2 seed wins the MVP.

[JESSEFEFFER]

9 minutes ago, Stretch said:

Thanks for the link, it was a good review.  I really liked the stat about 39% of Ravens WRs being wide open within seconds of the snap on throws, far and away the most in the league.  The stats really are so close, with Lamar barely ahead.  But if you watch the games, it does seem like Allen made more of the big-time throws in important games.  And it is hard to see voting going against what it has been for the past decade or more, the best QB on a top 2 seed wins the MVP.

 

I liked the discussion as well but I have no prior opinion about Mayes and Classon's work.   The part I can buy into is the discussion about the sacks.  I think sack avoidance is an underrated part of Josh's game.  Something that is of an elite level especially given his tendency to hold the ball.  One of those two called it Peyton Manning level of sack avoidance.

[Doc]

Fewer turnovers and negative plays.  No 1,000 yard rusher or receiver.  The 2nd seed in the playoffs.  It should be a no-brainer.

[DCOrange]

I think Josh will win, but at least this season, there are multiple options that are objectively very deserving. It's a shame one of the QBs will not win the MVP given the season that they've had but you can't argue in good faith that one of Lamar or Allen are not deserving. They've both been remarkable this season (as has Burrow but he's a distant 3rd in all likelihood).

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

1 hour ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

Which media pundits specifically?

CBS is another one

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

Is the fact lost on anybody, when discussing their supporting casts, that Ravens have 9 Pro Bowlers and the Bills 2 !!!!!

[strive_for_five_guy]

6 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

CBS is another one

I take it this is the CBS vote you’re referencing?  I mean even though Josh is the betting favorite and there’s lots of reasons he should win MVP, I would not be surprised at all if it’s a really close vote.  Mina Kimes, Dianna Russini and at least some from the Athletic seem to be leaning Lamar.  I’m really pulling for Myles Garrett playing this weekend and Schwartz’s D giving Lamar a tougher time than expected, as that could potentially shift some voters back to Josh.  Also hoping the Pro Bowl selections further highlight Josh’s value v Lamar’s, but don’t necessarily trust some of the MVP voters to be that smart.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2024-nfl-mvp-watch-lamar-jackson-overtakes-josh-allen-as-joe-burrow-saquon-barkley-hang-around/amp/

[Doc]

3 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

Is the fact lost on anybody, when discussing their supporting casts, that Ravens have 9 Pro Bowlers and the Bills 2 !!!!!

 

That goes with what I said above, i.e. no 1,000 yard rusher or receiver for Josh.  Baltimore has 3 other Pro Bowlers on their offense.

[Kelly to Allen]

2 hours ago, JESSEFEFFER said:

Certainly the best of all.  My sense is that Josh is somewhat disdainful of the Pro Bowl.  This might be due to previous snubs, or the lingering disappointment of a playoff loss and needing to step away from football or a having a beat up body that wants nothing more demanding to do than swinging a golf club at the Pro/Am.  We have discussed this before at TBD so I know I am not the only one that thinks this.

 

TBD topic/253065-josh-allen-not-in-pro-bowl-because-of-pebble-beach-tee-time-minshew-going-as-alternate

Allen doesn't go regardless and I don't think he cares about being an alternate. To him you either made it or didn't.

 

I'm glad he was named the starter. Anything else would've been ridiculous and silly 

[strive_for_five_guy]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

That goes with what I said above, i.e. no 1,000 yard rusher or receiver for Josh.  Baltimore has 3 other Pro Bowlers on their offense.

Baltimore has 4 even (Henry, Ricard, Flowers and their Center).

[Doc]

8 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

Baltimore has 4 even (Henry, Ricard, Flowers and their Center).

 

Oops, my bad.  Forgot about Ricard.

[DCOrange]

The Ravens definitely have more stars/borderline stars than we do. Having said that, our defense has outperformed theirs overall this season (but Baltimore has come on insanely strong down the stretch while we have faltered) and I think pretty much everyone would agree we have a better OLine. Baltimore definitely better receiving weapons though and Henry will be an All Pro (though Cook has been excellent this season too).

 

Ultimately I don't think this line of argument matters very much. Both teams would likely be pretty dreadful if they lost their QB. Both offenses are totally built around their skillsets and they're both so unique that they're essentially impossible to replace. 

[Big Turk]

 

Acho has one MVP vote.  Orlovsky has another. Both are voting for Allen.

11 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

The Ravens definitely have more stars/borderline stars than we do. Having said that, our defense has outperformed theirs overall this season (but Baltimore has come on insanely strong down the stretch while we have faltered) and I think pretty much everyone would agree we have a better OLine. Baltimore definitely better receiving weapons though and Henry will be an All Pro (though Cook has been excellent this season too).

 

Ultimately I don't think this line of argument matters very much. Both teams would likely be pretty dreadful if they lost their QB. Both offenses are totally built around their skillsets and they're both so unique that they're essentially impossible to replace. 

 

Hard to argue we have a better line when Henry is averaging almost 6 YPC.

Edited Thursday at 05:34 PM by Big Turk

[strive_for_five_guy]

2 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Josh diving for the pylon in the snow is literally the equivalent of the Air Jordan symbol and his slam dunk from the free throw line.  Air Allen could literally be a marketing brand, just like Air Jordan.  Sounds to me like Josh has Acho’s vote, which is where Acho has been until he questioned his position after Lamar’s performance on Christmas.

[zow2]

All the morning shows today had segments on the MVP debate.  It's all fodder to fill airtime.  Some even said it all comes down to this weekend.  Meanwhile, Lamar is playing against the Browns, who are holding out some of their good players in hopes of backing in to the #1 overall pick.  Cleveland has conceded.  Lamar might account for 6 TDs by halftime.   Allen is playing a snap, Saquon is sitting out, Burrow has zero shot to win it.   Lamar sat week #18 last year and was MVP by a mile.  Voters don't care about this weekend.  Lamar could eclipse Barkley for OPOY.  That's the battle. 

Edited Thursday at 05:40 PM by zow2

[The Wiz]

8 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Acho has one MVP vote.  Orlovsky has another. Both are voting for Allen.

 

Hard to argue we have a better line when Henry is averaging almost 6 YPC.

Love the replies in that tweet.

[finn]

1 hour ago, Stretch said:

Thanks for the link, it was a good review.  I really liked the stat about 39% of Ravens WRs being wide open within seconds of the snap on throws, far and away the most in the league.  The stats really are so close, with Lamar barely ahead.  But if you watch the games, it does seem like Allen made more of the big-time throws in important games.  And it is hard to see voting going against what it has been for the past decade or more, the best QB on a top 2 seed wins the MVP.

Maybe I'm just a homer, but looking at Lamar's highlights, like in this video, I'm just not that impressed. Most throws are ones we've seen most QBs make, including rookies Drake Maye, Bo Nix, and Jayden Daniels. I don't see many truly special throws--against the grain, while falling down, into tiny windows, with tacklers hanging off him or while running fast--of the kind that Allen throws every week, including the two TD just last week. Yes, Lamar shows crazy speed and moves on his runs, but his escability is oddly not much better than Mahomes, who twitches like a squirrel, and Allen, who has the frame to shrug off defenders. With his slight frame, Lamar goes down on contact if he can't juke, which might explain the 10 fumbles his fans don't see fit to mention. Over Jackson, I'd take Mahomes, Burrow, Goff, Daniels, or Allen any day.

 

I'm thinking something else is going on besides production. Not race, exactly, although there is a resemblance to last year's Angel Reese-Caitlin Clark controversy. Something appears to be fueling resentment against Allen and hero worship of Jackson.