MVP hype for Allen

[HappyDays]

8 minutes ago, VW82 said:

 

What's this based on?  Total yards (passing + rushing) / Total TD:

 

Lamar: 4807 yrd / 43 td

Allen: 4262 yrd / 40 td 

 

You know what I made the mistake of trusting a video I watched and not checking my work. Lamar is responsible for 70.8% of his team's production, Allen is responsible for 73.0% of his. A small difference but not enough to matter.

 

Like I said it is two MVP type performances. I still stand by everything else I said about their respective supporting cast and the value they add to their team.

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

 

And I recall that at least 2 of Josh's INTs were the fault of the WR.  Not sure about Lamar.

3 of his 6 int's  were as follows:

1. Coleman drops perfect slant td

2. Cooper slips out of route

3. Knox runs wrong route

[HappyDays]

12 minutes ago, VW82 said:

It's the Lebron phenomenon. Lebron fans will denigrate anyone, including HOFers, in order to prop up Lebron in all contexts. I fear we're doing the same with Josh. 

 

And by the way I'm not denigrating Lamar (I know you're not saying that I am). I agree he has had a special season that usually would be an MVP year. Just like Allen in 2020 would usually have been MVP but got edged out by Rodgers having a truly special regular season. This year Allen is having that truly special season and it deserves to be recognized as such. The historical heights he's taken this offense to, the records he's broken, the negative plays he's avoided, all with what neutral observers consider to be an average at best supporting cast; it's one of the all-time best QB seasons IMO. Not in total production for a number of reasons, but in value added.

 

Edited Wednesday at 06:52 PM by HappyDays

[VW82]

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

You know what I made the mistake of trusting a video I watched and not checking my work. Lamar is responsible for 70.8% of his team's production, Allen is responsible for 73.0% of his. A small difference but not enough to matter.

 

Like I said it is two MVP type performances. I still stand by everything else I said about their respective supporting cast and the value they add to their team.

 

I still don't understand how you're arriving at those numbers. Is it a stat you invented and track personally? I find it difficult to parse through everything and assign proper credit (for production) for the same reasons why it's difficult to fully trust PFF. 

 

I completely agree with your statement about it being two MVP performances.  

[GoBills808]

12 minutes ago, VW82 said:

 

What's this based on?  Total yards (passing + rushing) / Total TD:

 

Lamar: 4807 yrd / 43 td

Allen: 4262 yrd / 40 td 

 

It's the Lebron phenomenon. Lebron fans will denigrate anyone, including HOFers, in order to prop up Lebron in all contexts. I fear we're doing the same with Josh. 

save it lol

 

nobody who knows football is denigrating Lamar. He's having an historically great season

[HappyDays]

Just now, VW82 said:

I still don't understand how you're arriving at those numbers.

 

Total QB yards (passing + rushing + receiving) / total offensive yards

[VW82]

7 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

save it lol

 

nobody who knows football is denigrating Lamar. He's having an historically great season

 

If you're referring to my Lebron corollary, it was about denigrating Lebron's own teammates (even when said teammates are all stars, HOFers, etc.) to boost Lebron's perceived value/contribution to his team's success. 

 

I understand basically no one here is denigrating Lamar ('s regular season). 

Edited Wednesday at 06:59 PM by VW82

[DapperCam]

9 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

3 of his 6 int's  were as follows:

1. Coleman drops perfect slant td

2. Cooper slips out of route

3. Knox runs wrong route

Even the “arm punt” in the Pats game Coleman slipped and fell in the end zone. It was a 50/50 ball where the WR would have at least been there to make an attempt if not for slipping.

[GoBills808]

Just now, VW82 said:

 

If you're referring to my Lebron corollary, it was about denigrating Lebron's own teammates (even when said teammates are all stars, HOFers, etc.) to boost Lebron's perceived value/contribution to their success. 

 

I understand basically no one here is denigrating Lamar ('s regular season). 

Allen doing more w less is a significant component of his MVP case

[zow2]

3 hours ago, Einstein said:

What I find interesting is that the Ravens go run heavy when they are losing.

In other words, they put the game in Henry's hands... instead of Lamar.
 

 

Case in point, when the Ravens lost to Pitt in game #1,  Harbaugh was heavily criticized for the game plan running Henry only 13 times while Lamar threw 33 passes.

 

In the 2nd game vs the Steelers, Lamar passed 23 times and Henry ran 24 for 162.

 

I'm not bashing Lamar,  I've repeatedly said he's had a great season.  But again, Allen is doing more with less, has two marquis wins that no other QB can match.. and the stats are not wide enough of a disparity to give it to the guy with more losses and (which included losses to two crappy teams).

 

I really think all the debate is just bluster and Allen is getting this award.  But i guess we still have to hear it debated everywhere for another month or so.

 

 

[Magox]

Other components for Allen’s MVP case

 

- Offense scored 12 times over 30 points a game.

- Offense averaged a near historic all time record of 3 points per drive

- Allen had a season low per snap sack rate and a season low least yards per sack rate which means he doesn’t put his offense in unmanageable 3rd downs

- Allen led the league in epa per play and total epa

- The Bills were the only team to defeat the Chiefs who are conference leaders and defeat the Lions who were on an 11 game win streak and NFC leaders.  Out of those two teams total 3 losses, 2 of those came against the Bills

- The Chiefs game was the most televised game of the year and the Bills beat them by two scores and Allen put on an MVP performance for everyone to see

- The Lions game was one of the most televised games and Allen put on an incredible MVP performance

- Josh made what some dubbed the play of the year to put away the Chiefs.

- Many sports pundits wrote off the Bills this year due to Stefon Diggs and Gabe Davis along with Poyer and Hyde among others no longer with the team and not only did the Bills not struggle they thrived with an incredible offensive season.

 

Add this up and you have the MVP

[Kelly to Allen]

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

This is true.  Sam Howell did that with 23 to Allen's 22, but he was in his first season of playing, and that's kind of expected of a QB in his first playing year.

 

There is still "narrative" at play though.  Allen had 22 (2nd)  Hurts had 20 (3rd), Tua had 19 (4), Mahomes had 17 (5)

Those are still A Lot of turnovers, but I don't hear the narrative about Hurts or Tua "way too many turnovers, turnover machine" as we've heard about Josh.

 

 

The total turnovers thing only started to enter the sports consciousness because Nick wright kept repeating it over and over again a few years ago because of the the troll anti-Allen agenda. He would use total fumbles too and not fumbles lost. This created the perception that Allen was turning the ball over like crazy. 

 

18 ints is too much but the fumbles are somewhat misleading because obviously Allen scrambles more. 

 

Allen and Brees have the same career int% at 2.3

 

Tom Brady and Allen have the same amount of ints in their first 6 years starting. 

 

It's a fake narrative 

 

Another common legacy media talking point that is misleading is " Allen leads the NFL in turnovers since 2018".

 

But when you account for games played, pass attempts and run attempts, Allen's total turnover rate % is not even top ten in the NFL compared to his counterparts since then. 

 

Now that Allen has had an all time great season at limiting turnovers, now the narrative has disappeared and the only thing is he shouldn't win MVP because of stats, even though Allen was blowing teams out and the offense was playing ball control in the second half. 

 

Nick the troll wright even said Darnold is actually MVP if he wins against the lions and Allen " shouldn't even make the pro bowl"

 

Lmfao 😂 

Edited Wednesday at 07:39 PM by Kelly to Allen

[Kelly to Allen]

Josh Allen 63 ints since 2020

Mahomes 56 ints since 2020

 

If you include the regular season and playoffs since 2020

 

Mahomes 62 ints

Allen 67 ints

 

Mahomes has played in 3 more games since 2020....

 

Again it's a fake narrative 

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 07:46 PM by Kelly to Allen

[No_Matter_What]

On 12/30/2024 at 1:23 AM, Punch said:

Manning and McNair each recieved 16 votes, hence the tie. Ranked voting (1-5) was introduced last year so I think it'll be virtually impossible for a tie now.

There is really 1-5 voting?

 

So those who really want Lamar may screw Josh by putting Barkley on 2nd place.

 

I'd decent money that this will happen with some voters.

 

But it won't matter, Josh gets it anyway.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 hour ago, zow2 said:

 

Case in point, when the Ravens lost to Pitt in game #1,  Harbaugh was heavily criticized for the game plan running Henry only 13 times while Lamar threw 33 passes.

 

In the 2nd game vs the Steelers, Lamar passed 23 times and Henry ran 24 for 162.

 

I'm not bashing Lamar,  I've repeatedly said he's had a great season.  But again, Allen is doing more with less, has two marquis wins that no other QB can match.. and the stats are not wide enough of a disparity to give it to the guy with more losses and (which included losses to two crappy teams).

 

I really think all the debate is just bluster and Allen is getting this award.  But i guess we still have to hear it debated everywhere for another month or so.

 

 

 

That has been one of Nick Wright's ( i know) criticisms of Lamar. He's one of the only top QB's in the league where the narrative seems to be that the Ravens are better off taking the ball out of his hands more to win big games. Imagine saying Allen and Mahomes need to take the ball out of their hands more for the team to win. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

47 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen said:

Nick the troll wright even said Darnold is actually MVP if he wins against the lions and Allen " shouldn't even make the pro bowl"

 

Lmfao 😂 

 

I actually think there is a decent chance Allen wins MVP and doesn't even get named a pro bowler for the AFC which will be funny as hell and should basically officially put a nail in the coffin of any relevance the "award" used to have. 

 

I guess Burrow is the leading vote getter for the AFC at QB. Jackson will likely get voted in as well. And will Mahomes really be left out even with the down season? I know it is a third fan, player and coach vote. But I just wouldn't be shocked at all if Allen is left off the roster. 

[Orlando Buffalo]

I have pulled the numbers of note for the past two season combined from Josh and LJ and wish I could list them in a more pleasant way but I am doing this from my phone:

LJ Passing 7500 63TD Rushing 1700  9TD

32 TO total

 

Josh Passing 8000 57TD Rushing 1100 27TD 36 TO total

 

In my opinion the two year running total is more impressive to have 12 more TDs than an extra 100 total yards and 4 less turnovers, now that they have the same overall record. So over the past two season to argue LJ was worthy of an unanimous MVP but Josh is not the other years MVP means your being dishonest in one way or another.

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, VW82 said:

 

And Cook has more explosive plays, rushing yards per game, and much better Y/A (5.0 vs. 4.3).

 

The strength of our RB and TE rooms are the depth. Kincaid goes down and there's basically no drop off to Knox. Ty Johnson has been one of the best 3rd down RBs in the league.

 

Say what?

[billieve420]

If Lamar didn’t win MVP last year with mediocre numbers would have given him the edge this year. However, numbers to me are close despite Allen playing less number of snaps this season and won’t play week 18. Better record and more valuable in terms of where both teams were expected to be gives edge to Allen.

[UKBillFan]

16 minutes ago, billieve420 said:

If Lamar didn’t win MVP last year with mediocre numbers would have given him the edge this year. However, numbers to me are close despite Allen playing less number of snaps this season and won’t play week 18. Better record and more valuable in terms of where both teams were expected to be gives edge to Allen.

 

I think this is part of it as well. If Josh had been given MVP last year (personally I think McCaffrey should have got it), then the groundswell would be massively behind Lamar right now. More than it is.