MVP hype for Allen

[buffblue]

1 minute ago, PoundingDog said:

That's a strong statement. I don't agree; strongly disagree.

 

I believe Allen has at least one ridiculous season (like Mahomes 2018) coming, something like 50 passing TDs. Only 3 guys ever did that and they were all MVPs. Take a guess who are those 3 if you want. Hint, one did it at age 22, another at age 30, and another did at age 37.

 

Allen's late boomer still learning some of the nuances of the game and becoming more steady (or less volatile) game to game. It will probably coincide with the Bills getting a true super star WR.

He had one of those for 4 years and in that time produced at a record setting level. Now that player has been removed and Allen has still maintained his productivity. Am I to believe that the inherent bias that seems to exist against Allen will dissipate in the future if he is denied this year, especially when his rushing prowess may decline?

[transplantbillsfan]

3 minutes ago, Ralonzo said:

 

I'm sure she has no agenda regarding Allen at all.

 

That was in 2017. She wasn't alone in that reaction in real time. That included a LOT of Bills fans. I was one of them.

 

Holding that against her rather than seeing her 180 on Allen is pretty unfair.

[LABILLBACKER]

59 minutes ago, buffblue said:

This debate is absolutely toxic, and I fully admit that I have become too invested in the outcome.

 

I just don't understand how statistical arguments are all of a sudden the most important this year; but even more so, I am dumbfounded that Jackson's stats in particular are being portrayed as so far superior to Allen's as though they are in different universes, like Lamar having 1500 more yards and 20 more TD's. The stats are really, really close, and if Lamar has a slight edge in the traditional stats, Allen certainly leads in many advanced metrics.

 

To me, MVP means exactly as it says, and no man is more essential to his team's success or failure than Josh. I truly believe that if Allen doesn't secure the MVP this year he will never win one in his career.

 

 

Without Josh, the Bills win 4 games

Without Lamar, the Ravens win 9.

There's your MVP formula....

[strive_for_five_guy]

4 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

That was in 2017. She wasn't alone in that reaction in real time. That included a LOT of Bills fans. I was one of them.

 

Holding that against her rather than seeing her 180 on Allen is pretty unfair.

If anything, maybe it highlights that some of these “experts” aren’t good judges of what they’re actually watching.

[buffblue]

2 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Without Josh, the Bills win 4 games

Without Lamar, the Ravens win 9.

There's your MVP formula....

That's the way it should be, but...

 

I also look at the Burrow argument, which is absurd on its face when you have 2 #1 receivers. Does anybody remember what the Bengals did last year down the stretch? They went on the same run as they have this year with Jake Browning at QB. I'm not suggesting he is as good as Burrow or that the statistics were as impressive, but Cincy was in an almost identical predicament as in this year and they looked flat out dangerous and went on a hot streak as the season came to a close. Just like 2024, except with a career backup

[julian]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

Dan Orlovsky said they aren't supposed to disclose who they are voting for....

MVP voter Pete Prisco on CBS today was asked who he thinks is gonna win MVP, his answer                  

 

“It’s determined, I’m leaning in one direction, um… I’m not gonna reveal it, we’re not allowed to supposedly, I’m leaning to a QB in Buffalo, let’s put it that way”
 

I’m sure they’ve been instructed to not reveal their vote, but it didn’t stop Prisco today.

[DapperCam]

1 minute ago, julian said:

MVP voter Pete Prisco on CBS today was asked who he thinks is gonna win MVP, his answer                  

 

“It’s determined, I’m leaning in one direction, um… I’m not gonna reveal it, we’re not allowed to supposedly, I’m leaning to a QB in Buffalo, let’s put it that way”
 

I’m sure they’ve been instructed to not reveal their vote, but it didn’t stop Prisco today.

Why aren't they supposed to say who they are voting for? Just weird...

[LABILLBACKER]

18 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

If anything, maybe it highlights that some of these “experts” aren’t good judges of what they’re actually watching.

Well Mina is definitely an expert in stupidity. 

[julian]

1 minute ago, DapperCam said:

Why aren't they supposed to say who they are voting for? Just weird...

Yeah I’m not sure, maybe it’s supposed to be a big reveal on award night.

[strive_for_five_guy]

On 12/30/2024 at 1:52 PM, stevewin said:

Posted it earlier in this thread - FYI this is the list of voters this year

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/heres-the-full-list-of-the-50-ap-awards-voters

 

Emmanuel Acho, FS1
Greg Auman, Fox Sports
Howard Balzer, PHNX radio
Jarrett Bell, USA Today
Dave Birkett, Detroit Free Press
Tom Brady, Fox Sports
Tedy Bruschi, ESPN
Vic Carucci, WGRZ radio
Mark Craig, Minneapolis Star Tribune
Tom Curran, NBC Sports Boston
Charles Davis, CBS Sports
Nate Davis, USA Today
Howard Deneroff, Westwood One
Tony Dungy, NBC Sports
Jori Epstein, Yahoo Sports
Boomer Esiason, CBS Sports
Doug Farrar, USA Today Sports Media
Mike Florio, Pro Football Talk
Reuben Frank, NBC Sports Philadelphia
Rich Gannon, SiriusXM
Jonathan Jones, CBS Sports
Lindsay Jones, The Ringer
Mike Jones, The Athletic
Clark Judge, Talk of Fame Network
Ira Kaufman, JoeBucsFan.com
Mina Kimes, ESPN
Peter King, NBC Sports
Pat Kirwan, SiriusXM
Jeff Legwold, ESPN
Jim Miller, SiriusXM
Sam Monson, Pro Football Focus
Bruce Murray, SiriusXM
Gary Myers, NFL author
Laura Okmin, Fox Sports
Dan Orlovsky, ESPN
Nick Pavlatos, SiriusXM
Dan Pompei, The Athletic
Nora Princiotti, The Ringer
Lorenzo Reyes, USA Today
Charles Robinson, Yahoo Sports
Dianna Russini, The Athletic
Mike Sando, The Athletic
Aaron Schatz, FTN Network
Adam Schein, CBS Sports
Tom Silverstein, Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel
Chris Simms, NBC Sports
Armando Salguero, Outkick.com
Mike Tirico, NBC Sports
Ben Volin, Boston Globe
Charean Williams, Pro Football Talk

Isn’t this technically last year’s list of voters?

[PoundingDog]

30 minutes ago, buffblue said:

He had one of those for 4 years and in that time produced at a record setting level. Now that player has been removed and Allen has still maintained his productivity. Am I to believe that the inherent bias that seems to exist against Allen will dissipate in the future if he is denied this year, especially when his rushing prowess may decline?

Mmm I was thinking someone better than Diggs. Mahomes had Hill in 2018. Brady had Moss in 2007. Manning had Demaryius Thomas who is  nominated for HoF in 2025 in his first year of eligibility,  plus Eric Decker in 2013. In my view, Moss > Hill >> Diggs. I don't know where the comparison goes between Diggs and Demaryius. 

[Doc]

1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

She was anti Allen early, but I don't think that's true anymore. I generally like listening to her. She's pretty thoughtful about her Football takes.

 

With that said, one thing surprised and annoyed me in her "case" for Lamar.

 

She compared Interceptions among the 3 primary QB contenders, but Foxworth asked directly about total turnovers including fumbles because doesn't Lamar have a good amount of fumbles? She proceeds to say that's a good point and that she'd have to look that up (I guess Google was unavailable at that time) and skirted past it.

 

This has ALWAYS been my biggest issue in the Josh vs Lamar MVP discussion, especially in the last 2 years. Lamar is a fumble machine and Allen has seriously cleaned up that aspect of his game. 

 

Total turnovers over last 2 years when factoring in fumbles:

2023

Allen: 22

Lamar: 13

 

2024

Allen: 8

Lamar: 9

 

Yet evidently voters aren't paying attention to lost fumbles.

 

Couple notes... last season Josh had 44 total TDs and Lamar had 29. The Bills were also still the 2 seed last year and the Ravens won't be better than the 3.

 

I actually thought and still think Josh was more deserving last year based on historical precedent. Now with the new precedent they set of giving it to him last year (almost unanimously, btw), I fear they'll move the goalposts again 

 

Good thing Kimes did her homework...

 

And assuming she finally did, perhaps she'll change her mind.

Edited Wednesday at 04:15 AM by Doc

[HappyDays]

 

[zow2]

43 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

Why aren't they supposed to say who they are voting for? Just weird...

 

I heard Adam Schein on his Sirius show yesterday.  He flat out said he’s voting for Allen and it’s not close. 

[Scott7975]

53 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

Why aren't they supposed to say who they are voting for? Just weird...

 

My guess is to not influence other voters with hive mentality. Not that that doesn't already exist with all the media anyways. I've seen like 3 voters say they can't reveal their vote but all 3 of them said they were leaning a certain way and named who lol.

[Punch]

26 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

The QB for each of the other 4 teams* this century to average 3 points per drive won MVP:

 

2007 - Tom Brady

2010 - Aaron Rodgers

2011 - Tom Brady

2013 - Peyton Manning 

 

 

*I think there are actually 5 teams, the 2011 New Orleans Saints being one of two teams that season.

[BillytheKid]

17 minutes ago, Punch said:

The QB for each of the other 4 teams* this century to average 3 points per drive won MVP:

 

2007 - Tom Brady

2010 - Aaron Rodgers

2011 - Tom Brady

2013 - Peyton Manning 

 

 

*I think there are actually 5 teams, the 2011 New Orleans Saints being one of two teams that season.

The other would be the 

 

Kansas City Chiefs 2018-19 

 

Patrick Mahomes.

The 3 points per drive thing might end up taking a dive this weekend against the Pats unless Trubisky and the boys can score more than I think they are capable of. 

[BobbyC81]

Who cares about MVP?

 

I want a Super Bowl Victory before I move on.

 

If the Bills don’t make it to the Super Bowl but Josh got MVP will any of you think/say “Well at least Josh got MVP”?

 

I won’t.

Edited Wednesday at 11:06 AM by BobbyC81

[Scott7975]

 

 

This guy says it all.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I just realized Drew Brees, with all of his incredible numbers, NEVER won regular season MVP!!!

 

Thats unbelievable to me.