MVP hype for Allen

[Big Turk]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I disagree with that. I think Josh is the MVP but Lamar is legit #2 to me. He's had an incredible year and is an incredible player. 

 

Who falters most times Henry is held in check with under 90 yards with a 2-5 record including losses to 2 teams with a combined record of 5-25 against the rest of the NFL.

 

Hold James Cook in check, what happens? Allen can still go nuclear and put up 450 yards on his own.

 

Lamar not so much.

Edited December 30, 2024 by Big Turk

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Who falters most times Henry is held in check with under 90 yards with a 2-5 record including losses to 2 teams with a combined record of 5-25 against the rest of the NFL.

 

The only game where I'd say Lamar was a big part of the reason for their loss was Pittsburgh. Most of Baltimore's losses this year are on the defense. 

[Big Turk]

31 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The only game where I'd say Lamar was a big part of the reason for their loss was Pittsburgh. Most of Baltimore's losses this year are on the defense. 

 

So against the Raiders when he did nothing in the 4th quarter and extended his NFL record of losing games when ahead by 10+ points in the 4th quarter he wasn't to blame?  I watched the last drive and he was awful on it.

[Gregg]

If the Bengals somehow get into the playoffs (I don't think they will) then Burrow will get serious consideration for the MVP, and he will deserve it. He would be right there with Allen, Jackson, and Barkey.

[strive_for_five_guy]

8 minutes ago, Gregg said:

If the Bengals somehow get into the playoffs (I don't think they will) then Burrow will get serious consideration for the MVP, and he will deserve it. He would be right there with Allen, Jackson, and Barkey.

No MVP has ever had more than 7 losses.  No way Burrow gets MVP, even if Bengals get in the playoffs.

 

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/nfl-player-with-most-losses-in-a-mvp-season

[CSBill]

10 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

When is MVP announced? I forget!

Not soon enough. 

[zow2]

Regarding Saquon,  Shefter said this morning that the priority yesterday running him 31 times was to get 2,000.  That was their goal but by everything he has heard, the Eagles will rest all their important starters this week vs Giants.  

[Gregg]

17 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

No MVP has ever had more than 7 losses.  No way Burrow gets MVP, even if Bengals get in the playoffs.

 

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/nfl-player-with-most-losses-in-a-mvp-season

 

His stats are MVP worthy. It's not his fault his defense blows.

[Big Turk]

20 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

No MVP has ever had more than 7 losses.  No way Burrow gets MVP, even if Bengals get in the playoffs.

 

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/nfl-player-with-most-losses-in-a-mvp-season

 

Part of the reason they have 8 losses and need a lot of help to get in is because Burrow has had the ball in his hand multiple times late in games with under 2 minutes to go to take the lead and has failed on 4 of them.  MVP isn't just a great stat award, it's how do you perform when your team needs it most, and Burrow has not gotten it done too many times in that regard, which is a big reason they will likely not make the playoffs.  He stuffs the stat sheet, but hasn't gotten it done when he needs it.

Edited December 30, 2024 by Big Turk

[jethro_tull]

13 hours ago, rajinka said:

That's what's so frustrating about everyone's mvp argument. They just look at stats,  it's deeper then that

But last year it was wins.  Stats didn't matter.  

I would argue that last season Josh had the help of another superstar being Steph Diggs, also that Josh's turnovers could count against him.  

This season Josh has the wins, eliminated the turnovers and does not have a superstar like Derrick Henry to help.  Josh all the way if the voters really think about it.  

[CincyBillsFan]

Just now, Big Turk said:

 

Part of the reason they have 8 losses and need a lot of help to get in is because Burrow has had the ball in his hand multiple times late in games with under 2 minutes to go to take the lead and has failed on 4 of them.  MVP isn't just a great stat award, it's how do you perform when your team needs it most, and Burrow has not gotten it done too many times in that regard, which is a big reason they will likely not make the playoffs.  He stuffs the stat sheet, but hasn't gotten it done when he needs it.

And while Burrow is one of the top 5 elite QB's in the NFL his stats are inflated by his bad defense.  He has spent a lot more time then Allen throwing against prevent defenses desperately trying to keep the Bengals in a game.

 

 

[Big Turk]

13 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

His stats are MVP worthy. It's not his fault his defense blows.

 

It IS his fault he has failed 4 times with the ball in his hands under 2 minutes to go to win the game and failed tho.  

[zow2]

On Get Up this morning,  Greeny, Rex and Orlovsky all said if they voted today it would be Allen.  They made a good case for him as others have said MVP is not all about stats.  No one had the Bills at 13-3 with the guys they have (vs the guys they lost).  They all mentioned Henry having a huge season has made it easier for Jackson.

 

And while Lamar and Burrow are elite they are playing right through the end of every game while Allen is sitting a bunch of 4th quarters.  They will out-stat Allen based on that.

 

ESPN put up a Next Gen Stats graphic of Avg. Target Separation,  and Tight window Completions-Attempts.

 

Lamar has 4.31 avg yards separation  15 for 46

Allen  has 3.65 avg, 27 for 81

Burrow has 3.22 avg,  27 for 96

 

Allen and Burrow are in the bottom 10 of avg yards of separation.  I would say Burrow is having an outstanding season but they have 8 losses and he does have Chase and Tee Higgins.  They are elite.

[Process]

20 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

His stats are MVP worthy. It's not his fault his defense blows.

His defense blowing is a huge reason why his stats are so good......

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Big Turk said:

 

So against the Raiders when he did nothing in the 4th quarter and extended his NFL record of losing games when ahead by 10+ points in the 4th quarter he wasn't to blame?  I watched the last drive and he was awful on it.

 

He had a bad drive. The defense sucked all 2nd half. That game was not on Lamar. 

[CincyBillsFan]

14 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

It IS his fault he has failed 4 times with the ball in his hands under 2 minutes to go to win the game and failed tho.  

Also, while Burrow hasn't turned over the ball much this season the TO's he's had have been very damaging.  Three of his TO's (1 INT, 2 Fum) have been returned for TD's.  Burrow's fumble TD's  led directly to losing two critical games - KC & Pittsburgh - both decided by less then the TD.  To me you must look inside the stats if stats are a big part of your MVP decision.

 

 

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He had a bad drive. The defense sucked all 2nd half. That game was not on Lamar. 

The Ravens last 3 drives that game involved 2 punts and then a failure to score at the end when trailing.  That is on Jackson.

 

 

[Ya Digg?]

1 hour ago, Gregg said:

If the Bengals somehow get into the playoffs (I don't think they will) then Burrow will get serious consideration for the MVP, and he will deserve it. He would be right there with Allen, Jackson, and Barkey.

I know the MVP is essentially a stats award, but it’s not completely a stats award. You can’t have the MVP of the league be on the 14th best team in the league, your stats have to contribute to the team consistently winning 

[Saint Doug]

There’s only one thing Allen has to do to win the MVP. He needs to win the Super Bowl. Otherwise, the other guy will win. It’s that simple. 

[Logic]

1 minute ago, Saint Doug said:

There’s only one thing Allen has to do to win the MVP. He needs to win the Super Bowl. Otherwise, the other guy will win. It’s that simple. 

MVP is voted prior to the playoffs.

[Big Turk]

The 2024 Bills have had a historic year offensively.  I don't even think most people understand or appreciate just how good it has been all-time in comparison to NFL history.

 

Bills have averaged 3.12 points/drive.

In NFL history, only the 2007 Patriots have been better at 3.19 points/drive.

The 2024 Bills are tied for second ALL-TIME(2018 Chiefs) in NFL history as one of the greatest offenses to ever play the game.  

Unlike those other offenses, they have ZERO HOF players outside Josh Allen on it and have done it with a "rag-tag" cast of characters on offense.

 

Some other notes:

• Bills set franchise record for points scored(509) 
• Bills set franchise record for most TDs(61)
• Bill set franchise record for most 40+ point games in season(4)
• Bills set franchise record for most 30+ point games in a season(12)
• Bills tie all-time NFL record with 13 players having caught TD passes on the season
• Bills tied all-time NFL record with 8 straight 30+ point games
• Josh Allen leads the NFL in EPA/play