MVP hype for Allen

[Dr.Sack]

On 12/2/2024 at 7:08 AM, Warriorspikes51 said:

 

if Barkley hits 2,000 rushing, then yea

Otherwise  Allen MVP,  Barkley OPOY  

If the Packers & Bills beat the Lions in the next two weeks, then Barkley could effectively sit out Week 18. If he’s already at 2,000 yards after 16 games there is your MVP. I have no qualms with that logic.
 

But if the Bills beat the Lions and the Lions finish as the 1 seed, then one can argue Allen is the betting favorite.
 

Certainly record matters as Lamar has all but fallen out of the top 3, and Burrow is having a career year yet sits at 4-8. Stats matter, but winning matters most.

 

In the context of 2,000 yard rushers Barkley achieving this milestone after game 16 looks lesser of a feat than those who rushed for 2,000 in a 16 or 14 game season. OJ ran for 2,000 for a team that didn’t even make the playoffs. Barkley rushing for 2,000 yards and not even being his teams leading touchdown rusher also is a knock. 

[folz]

MVP stats check-in [yards are from scrimmage---rush, pass, rec]

 

Lamar Jackson (8-5 rec): 3,968 yards   32 TDs   3 INTs    8 Fumbles (4 Lost)   67% comp.     Rate: 116.3   QBR: 73.4

Josh Allen (10-2 rec): 3,032 yards   27 TDs   5 INTs   5 Fumbles (2 Lost)   64.6% comp.    Rate: 100.3   QBR: 74.5

Jared Goff (11-1 rec): 3,022 yards   22 TDs   9 INTs   5 Fumbles (0 Lost)   71.8% comp.    Rate: 109.0   QBR: 57.7

Patrick Mahomes (11-1 rec): 3,210 yards   20 TDs   11 INTs   2 Fumbles (0 Lost)   68.4% comp.    Rate: 92.2   QBR: 64.4

 

Saquon Barkley (10-2 rec): 1,766 yards   13 TDs   6.1 Y/A   2 Fumbles

Derrick Henry (8-5 rec): 1,532 yards   15 TDs   5.9 Y/A   3 Fumbles

 

 

Lamar: Still has the best stats of the QBs, but the record should hurt him (just as it helped him last year), and doesn't help to be on the same team as another guy who has had MVP consideration---kind of dilutes things.

 

Josh: Good record, good stats, weren't expected to be as good as they are this year, has come up big in nationally televised games (and we've had a lot of them), a couple of plays of the year candidates, doing it with what many believed to be second-tier weapons. Can put the team on his back. Winning in Detroit would be big.

 

Jared: Very good record, good stats, more INTs than Josh and Lamar. Pretty soft schedule, and despite the 400+ yard, 4 TD performance against JAX, not really the type of player to put the team on his back (like an Allen, Mahomes, Jackson), imo. Beating the Bills could help his cause.

 

Patrick Mahomes: Very good record, stats and play aren't quite up to his usual standard. Most INTs of QBs. Team has won a lot of close games in kind of lucky ways. Team doesn't look as dominant as Buffalo and Detroit have looked at times.

 

Saquon: Rejuvenated his career, on pace for 2,502 yards from scrimmage with 18 TDs, Philly is winning, play of the year (on the Mt. Rushmore of most athletic plays ever in the NFL).

 

Derrick: 8-5 record and sharing the spotlight with Lamar hurts his case, as does the fact that Saquon has pulled ahead of him in stats (outside of 2 TDs).

 

I'd currently rank it:

Josh, Saquon, Jared, Lamar, Patrick, Derrick.

[GunnerBill]

14 hours ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

Great post, mostly spot on except Allen did lose the one primetime game against the Ravens.  But that aside, he’d still win MVP as of today.

 

I agree the Barkley narrative will likely continue to get stronger.  Aside from the Steelers, he’ll be facing some of the worst rush defenses in the league the rest of the way.  As long as he doesn’t get injured, he’s probably got a really good shot at passing Dickerson’s rushing record.  If that happens, Josh will also need to have closed really well, in order to hold off any narrative in favor of Saquon, although that may still not be enough.

 

I think there are enough voters who believe these days that there is no real justification for an MVP that isn't a QB. At least I hope so. If there was ever a year for a non Quarterback to win it then it was last year. 

[Kelly to Allen]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think there are enough voters who believe these days that there is no real justification for an MVP that isn't a QB. At least I hope so. If there was ever a year for a non Quarterback to win it then it was last year. 

 

It should be unanimous MVP if Allen wins the rest of his games here. Even if Barkley breaks the record... Why?

 

Because Allen broke a record nobody talks about which is truly insane. The most tds in NFL history from 20-23 over any 4 year span ever 

 

More than Jim Brown 

More than Unitas

More than Fouts

More than Peyton Manning 

More than Tomlinson 

More than Marino 

More than literally anyone ever over a 4 year span... And he never got an MVP 

 

He then follows that with a 15-2 season, the number one seed and 2015 Cam Newton mvp like numbers... 

 

In another words how in the heck are you putting up transcendent never before seen production, over other all time all time hof MVP players and yet you continually get passed over for the recognition 

 

Enough is enough...

 

As polian said about the writers in the Early 90s in context to voting for the Hof with Kelly, Reed, Thomas and Bruce... "Don't be bias, be fair and exhaustive in your analysis and do the right thing."

 

Allen is putting up numbers nobody has ever seen. It needs to be respected by the media which obviously controls the award 

 

Allen is not frickin Warren Moon like Matt verderame from KC said

He's not Cam Newton 

He's not even Brett favre 

 

He's a top 5 all time record breaking QB and it's time for ppl to talk about him that way. 

 

When we win the championship this year I don't want to hear " but mahomes". Umm no. He's putting up this production without the Andy Reid or Bill Walsh's of the world. And he's making it look easy in a frickin blizzard 🥶 

 

Like I said, enough is enough. 

 

Sorry for my rant. But it's just getting kinda ridiculous. 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 4 by Kelly to Allen

[Bills!Win!]

Allen is showing this year that he throws Too many interceptions

[Chandler#81]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C_iZw27u3qw/?igsh=cHF3Y2gwYXRueHE4

[DapperCam]

It’s wild that Lamar has almost 1k more yards than Allen. I think having a bad defense actually helps in terms of volume stats. Look at the yardage Burrow is racking up. Allen has sat quite a bit of time in the second half, or just had times where the Bills were handing off to run the clock.

 

Mahomes is still a dark horse in my mind. Similar stats to Allen, but with 4 more turnovers. If the Bills falter and drop a couple games it could get close. He has 11 TDs, 2 INT, and 100 passer rating over the last 5 games.

 

It’s Allen’s to lose right now, but he still needs to finish strong.

[K D]

It seems as though the consensus has already decided that Josh should get it this year. He's played well of course but his stats are down compared to years past. This will likely be the first time in the past 4 years he may not score 40 TD's for instance. That's fine, we are scoring with RB's as well now. I'm just saying that Josh has had better stats in the past but for some reason they have already decided that this is the year he will get it.

[Gregg]

1 minute ago, K D said:

It seems as though the consensus has already decided that Josh should get it this year. He's played well of course but his stats are down compared to years past. This will likely be the first time in the past 4 years he may not score 40 TD's for instance. That's fine, we are scoring with RB's as well now. I'm just saying that Josh has had better stats in the past but for some reason they have already decided that this is the year he will get it.

 

This is a better team all around and Allen has help everywhere on offense. Cook is doing the heavy lifting running. Allen is spreading the ball around to all the receivers for a balanced passing attack. The addition of Cooper has been fantastic. This is much better than when Allen had to put on the cape and play Superman for the Bills to win games.

[TheWei44]

2 hours ago, Kelly to Allen said:

 

It should be unanimous MVP if Allen wins the rest of his games here. Even if Barkley breaks the record... Why?

 

Because Allen broke a record nobody talks about which is truly insane. The most tds in NFL history from 20-23 over any 4 year span ever 

 

More than Jim Brown 

More than Unitas

More than Fouts

More than Peyton Manning 

More than Tomlinson 

More than Marino 

More than literally anyone ever over a 4 year span... And he never got an MVP 

 

He then follows that with a 15-2 season, the number one seed and 2015 Cam Newton mvp like numbers... 

 

In another words how in the heck are you putting up transcendent never before seen production, over other all time all time hof MVP players and yet you continually get passed over for the recognition 

 

Enough is enough...

 

As polian said about the writers in the Early 90s in context to voting for the Hof with Kelly, Reed, Thomas and Bruce... "Don't be bias, be fair and exhaustive in your analysis and do the right thing."

 

Allen is putting up numbers nobody has ever seen. It needs to be respected by the media which obviously controls the award 

 

Allen is not frickin Warren Moon like Matt verderame from KC said

He's not Cam Newton 

He's not even Brett favre 

 

He's a top 5 all time record breaking QB and it's time for ppl to talk about him that way. 

 

When we win the championship this year I don't want to hear " but mahomes". Umm no. He's putting up this production without the Andy Reid or Bill Walsh's of the world. And he's making it look easy in a frickin blizzard 🥶 

 

Like I said, enough is enough. 

 

Sorry for my rant. But it's just getting kinda ridiculous. 

 

 

 

 

Re the bolded, note that those are not "apples to apples" for many reasons, the most glaring that they play 16-17 games per season now vs. less in the past.  A much better stat is "first 100 games played" or similar.

 

That said, if Bills go 15-2, he's the MVP.  And even 14-3 or worse, with solid play, gives Josh a great shot.

[ToGoGo]

34 minutes ago, TheWei44 said:

Re the bolded, note that those are not "apples to apples" for many reasons, the most glaring that they play 16-17 games per season now vs. less in the past.  A much better stat is "first 100 games played" or similar.

 

That said, if Bills go 15-2, he's the MVP.  And even 14-3 or worse, with solid play, gives Josh a great shot.

 

Even with those few extra games, Allen is top or very near the top. 

 

Regarding the hype around Barkley, it feels like hype. People were wowed by the reverse hurdle, which Good Morning America picked up, and the yardage numbers pop. But he's on a great team with lots of other weapons. I don't see why he should win MVP if Chris Johnson, Adrian Peterson, and others didn't. When I watch him I don't feel that I'm watching LaDainian Tomlinson and Terrell Davis, who you would need to plan your entire strategy around. It feels more like a great player having a great career year on a stacked team, in an otherwise disappointing career. 

 

If they give it to Barkley, I'll just assume they found an excuse to not give it to Allen. 

[WinterSoldier17]

I think Josh is the most deserving, that is, if you throw out any other position winning the award. If any position can and will the award, then you really can’t have a conversation without Barkley in it. He’s been absolutely unreal - on a historical level no less.

 

I know that I’m biased, and will openly admit as much, but my vote is for Josh Allen. He’s taken our team to a different level this year by cutting out most of the turnovers and being his usual self.

[Kelly to Allen]

8 minutes ago, ToGoGo said:

 

Even with those few extra games, Allen is top or very near the top. 

 

Regarding the hype around Barkley, it feels like hype. People were wowed by the reverse hurdle, which Good Morning America picked up, and the yardage numbers pop. But he's on a great team with lots of other weapons. I don't see why he should win MVP if Chris Johnson, Adrian Peterson, and others didn't. When I watch him I don't feel that I'm watching LaDainian Tomlinson and Terrell Davis, who you would need to plan your entire strategy around. It feels more like a great player having a great career year on a stacked team, in an otherwise disappointing career. 

 

If they give it to Barkley, I'll just assume they found an excuse to not give it to Allen. 

 

 

If Allen wins out and goes 15-2 and they don't give him the unanimous MVP, it will be an injustice, purposeful and cruel.

 

It will also make the ap and the MVP award illegitimate in the eyes of the public 

 

It would be pretty disgraceful and probably permanently damage the sports media/ legacy media

 

It will also tell me they are never giving him the award 

Edited December 4 by Kelly to Allen

[zow2]

The Facility had about a 10 minute segment today on Allen and the importance of him winning an MVP this season, and his legacy.  It was really good, they hit on every point including how Josh Allen is better than several previous MVP's... but he has to get it NOW, this year, and it's probably his to lose.  Someone should find the segment and post it here, it's a good watch.  I'll check later to see if I can find it.  Acho is an MVP voter so when they discuss this stuff on national TV it carries some weight.  

[zow2]

Here's the link per my post above.

 

 

[947]

[BigDingus]

If the Bills beat the Lions, and if Allen plays great in the win, he's the MVP. If he lays a stinker in that game, people won't think the Ravens & Texans games were a fluke.

[ToGoGo]

4 hours ago, Kelly to Allen said:

 

 

If Allen wins out and goes 15-2 and they don't give him the unanimous MVP, it will be an injustice, purposeful and cruel.

 

It will also make the ap and the MVP award illegitimate in the eyes of the public 

 

It would be pretty disgraceful and probably permanently damage the sports media/ legacy media

 

It will also tell me they are never giving him the award 

 

I think he'll win but the voting will be extremely tight, as a slight to Allen.

 

Something like:

Allen - 18 votes

Lamar - 17 votes

Saquan - 15 votes

 

Almost like half the voters decided they weren't going to vote for Allen, but since there was no other anonymous person to choose from, Allen wins on a technicality. 

 

[H2o]

1 hour ago, zow2 said:

Here's the link per my post above.

 

 

I don't believe Josh needs an MVP this year per say, but hardware is what you're remembered by and this year he has probably his best chance to date. The Phillip Rivers comp is kind of scary when you think about it. Completely different skill set of course. Rivers was a REALLY good QB, but his teams could just never get past the Pittsburgh's, Indy's, and New England's of his time. I don't expect that to be Josh's career arc by any means, but it does make you think about how many really good players there have been who never really get the accolades. Josh is too special of a player and talent in general for me to think that is how his career will play out. 

[MikePJ76]