MVP hype for Allen

[C.Biscuit97]

42 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

People bring up Manning like he's the guy who "can't win the big game"

 

Manning was 3-2 against Brady in the playoffs with all 3 of those wins coming in the AFC Championship game. 

 

Brady had the greatest coach in history his entire time in NE scheming up ways to defeat Manning and went into every game vs Manning with a significant coaching advantage.

 

Yet Manning had a winning record vs Brady in the playoffs. Manning was so good he went 14-2 with Jim Caldwell as HC.

 

So all of that is worth mentioning. Coaching matters in this league. 

 

Some guys benefit from it and others must overcome the disadvantage.

 

Lamar has an incredible coach who built an entire system around him. 

 

 

BS. Harbaugh is a great coach but has a higher winning % with Lamar as a qb. And what system? You talking about the Roman system? You mean the one that has taken one of the best young passers in Herbert and made him a game manger? Or the new system where Lamar is throwing for 40 tds and 4.000 yards with future HOF WRs Zay Flowers and Bateman? 
 

maybe the guy who won MVPs in both systems is the system. This trying to cheapen who Jackson is as a player is lazy and out dates Polian crap. Maybe the guy who won a Heisman at Louisville with 0 nfl players on offense and multiple MVPs is just a really great qb. But nah that can’t be it. Must be every system he is in because he “is different.”

 

that said, Allen is the MVP.

Edited 17 hours ago by C.Biscuit97

[BillMafia716ix]

I could care less about Josh winning MVP. He needs to beat Mahomes in January. That’s all that mattters. 

[Punch]

2 hours ago, BillytheKid said:

The MVP race is pretty much over though. All the YouTube and ESPN channels can talk about it for views as much as they want.
 

Even after Lamar’s game yesterday Vegas still has Allen as a -250 favorite and Allen hasn’t played yet this week.
 

As long as he doesn’t do anything stupid those odds will go back up. Right now his implied odds are that Allen has over a 71% chance of winning it. Lamar is only at 35%.
 

If Josh plays well then those odds go back up to -400 or -500 then he will be at an over 80% chance to win the award.
 

So it really isn’t as close as the talking heads are making it out to be. That is if you know anything about how odds work. 
 

Only way Allen would lose it is if he goes out and has a couple of turnovers and plays like he did last week agains the Pats.  Other than that it is Allen’s to lose. 

The MVP won't be decided based on whether or not voters ran out of time while Allen still had the better odds. The trend toward Lamar is distinct, it's closer to a coin flip than 2-1.

Edited 16 hours ago by Punch

[Big Turk]

Imagine watching a guy run untouched for 48 yards on 1st and 10 for a TD in an uncompetetive game and thinking it's more impressive than a guy who has to scramble on 4th and 2 due to a brilliant playcall by the DC killing the play they called on offense and then watch him run around, over and thru 6 defenders for a 26 yard TD late in the 4th quarter to seal the game and hand a team it's only loss on the year.

 

That's the gaslighting we are being told by the National Media and I am not having any of it.

Edited 2 hours ago by Big Turk

[Punch]

 

[The Wiz]

Can't tell if that hurts or helps Allens case.  Seems like a strange change to the wording.

 

On one hand, you can say that Allen beating the #1 seed in both divisions is more valuable to the season (along with what they thought of the bills before the season started)

 

On the other, you can say that Lamar has had his most valueable "season" to date in terms of stats (mostly because of Henry, but I digress). 

Edited 15 hours ago by The Wiz

[Goin Breakdown]

6 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

Can't tell if that hurts or helps Allens case.  Seems like a strange change to the wording.

I think it helps. Allen's value is crazy. Without him Buffalo is nowhere near the level they are with him. If we're talking about Lamar although an awesome Qb as well, I think he is benefiting from the fear of Henry embarrassing you. Thats 2 players that make you go "ohh crap......has the ball". That leads Lamar to having maybe the "better year" Josh, more valuable year. Jmo 

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

BS. Harbaugh is a great coach but has a higher winning % with Lamar as a qb. And what system? You talking about the Roman system? You mean the one that has taken one of the best young passers in Herbert and made him a game manger? Or the new system where Lamar is throwing for 40 tds and 4.000 yards with future HOF WRs Zay Flowers and Bateman? 
 

maybe the guy who won MVPs in both systems is the system. This trying to cheapen who Jackson is as a player is lazy and out dates Polian crap. Maybe the guy who won a Heisman at Louisville with 0 nfl players on offense and multiple MVPs is just a really great qb. But nah that can’t be it. Must be every system he is in because he “is different.”

 

that said, Allen is the MVP.

 

Henry faces a 8 man box at one of the highest percentages in the NFL according to next gen stats.

 

Trying to claim Lamar doesn't benefit from that is a little disingenuous.

 

By comparison, Cook faces an 8 man box far less.

 

Why?

 

Because teams are telling you they fear Henry more than Lamar and that they fear Allen more than Cook.

[boyst]

37 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Imagine watching a guy run untouched for 43 yards on 1st and 10 for a TD in an uncompetetive game and thinking it's more impressive than a guy who has to scramble on 4th and 2 due to a brilliant playcall by the DC killing the play they called on offense and then watch him run around, over and thru 6 defenders for a 26 yard TD late in the 4th quarter to seal the game and hand a team it's only loss on the year.

 

That's the gaslighting we are being told by the National Media and I am not having any of it.

At least now most of the country is aware of these practices by the media. 

[The Wiz]

36 minutes ago, Goin Breakdown said:

I think it helps. Allen's value is crazy. Without him Buffalo is nowhere near the level they are with him. If we're talking about Lamar although an awesome Qb as well, I think he is benefiting from the fear of Henry embarrassing you. Thats 2 players that make you go "ohh crap......has the ball". That leads Lamar to having maybe the "better year" Josh, more valuable year. Jmo 

See that's the thing.  If Allen has a bad game, he is criticized because they lost.  Not because of anyone else's play but his own.

 

Jackson goes 23/36, 237 yards and 2 TDs and they blame the running game because Henry got stuffed all game vs Philly.  And when Henry doesn't produce, they have been bad (2-5 when he doesn't get at least 90 yards rushing).

 

I want him to win it, I do.  But the playoffs are more important that regular season awards.  Lamar would be the one to tell you that better than anyone.

Edited 14 hours ago by The Wiz

[strive_for_five_guy]

1 hour ago, Goin Breakdown said:

I think it helps. Allen's value is crazy. Without him Buffalo is nowhere near the level they are with him. If we're talking about Lamar although an awesome Qb as well, I think he is benefiting from the fear of Henry embarrassing you. Thats 2 players that make you go "ohh crap......has the ball". That leads Lamar to having maybe the "better year" Josh, more valuable year. Jmo 

I think Acho is reading that thinking Allen should be MVP, while Lamar OPOY potentially over Saquon, if Saquon doesn’t break the rushing record.

[Boatdrinks]

1 hour ago, Punch said:

The MVP won't be decided based on whether or not voters ran out of time while Allen still had the better odds. The trend toward Lamar is distinct, it's closer to a coin flip than 2-1.

Betting odds don’t have much to do with the MVP voters. More about talking heads and hot takes. 

[Boatdrinks]

2 hours ago, BillMafia716ix said:

I could care less about Josh winning MVP. He needs to beat Mahomes in January. That’s all that mattters. 

We know what Allen can do in January. What matters is what the Bills defense can do. They play against Mahomes, not Allen. Some Bills fans do care about Josh Allen winning MVP, and that’s what this thread is about. 

[Buffalo Ballin]

Lamar Jackson has a compelling case for MVP this season. His stats are better than his previous 2 MVP seasons.

 

How come Ravens team record is 11-5? It should be better than this.

 

He has a compelling case, but NOT a convincing one to be a front runner. The team record holds him back.

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, The Wiz said:

Can't tell if that hurts or helps Allens case.  Seems like a strange change to the wording.

 

On one hand, you can say that Allen beating the #1 seed in both divisions is more valuable to the season (along with what they thought of the bills before the season started)

 

On the other, you can say that Lamar has had his most valueable "season" to date in terms of stats (mostly because of Henry, but I digress). 

The bottom line is Lamar has far more weapons than Josh has. Take Lamar off this roster and Baltimore probably still wins 8 games. Take Josh off Buffalo and they're a 4-5 win team tops.  If "Valuable" is the optimum word,  then in a dead heat stats wise, Josh should win.

[Goin Breakdown]

1 hour ago, The Wiz said:

See that's the thing.  If Allen has a bad game, he is criticized because they lost.  Not because of anyone else's play but his own.

 

Jackson goes 23/36, 237 yards and 2 TDs and they blame the running game because Henry got stuffed all game vs Philly.  And when Henry doesn't produce, they have been bad (2-5 when he doesn't get at least 90 yards rushing).

 

I want him to win it, I do.  But the playoffs are more important that regular season awards.  Lamar would be the one to tell you that better than anyone.

I hear ya on all accounts. Man I didn't know that about Henry's stats. Dudes been important for them. It'd be awesome to have another real threat. 

[The Wiz]

11 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

The bottom line is Lamar has far more weapons than Josh has. Take Lamar off this roster and Baltimore probably still wins 8 games. Take Josh off Buffalo and they're a 4-5 win team tops.  If "Valuable" is the optimum word,  then in a dead heat stats wise, Josh should win.

Which is why I posted it because who the hell knows that MVP voters think what "should" means.

 

If you really wanted,  you could say Joe Burrow should win MVP because of what he has done.  Yes he has Chase, I know.  But he's doing what Dak did last year and no one is even looking at them because of their record.

 

I know, "Wins aren't a QB stat" but they are when it comes to MVP voters.

Edited 13 hours ago by The Wiz

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, Goin Breakdown said:

I think it helps. Allen's value is crazy. Without him Buffalo is nowhere near the level they are with him. If we're talking about Lamar although an awesome Qb as well, I think he is benefiting from the fear of Henry embarrassing you. Thats 2 players that make you go "ohh crap......has the ball". That leads Lamar to having maybe the "better year" Josh, more valuable year. Jmo 

 

Henry faces some of the highest percentages of 8 man boxes in the NFL.

 

Who do you think that helps?

 

Also, what does that say about who teams fear more?

[BillytheKid]

2 hours ago, Punch said:

The MVP won't be decided based on whether or not voters ran out of time while Allen still had the better odds. The trend toward Lamar is distinct, it's closer to a coin flip than 2-1.

Has nothing to do with running out of time. It isn’t a coin flip. 
 

I'm talking about the actual odds in Vegas.

 

what I stated is fact. Has nothing to do with your opinion or your feeling on the subject. 
 

it’s not 2-1. Right now Allen has over 71% chance of winning it on implied odds. 
 

Like I said if Allen is still favored after Sundays game then he will win the award. 

[Boatdrinks]

1 hour ago, The Wiz said:

See that's the thing.  If Allen has a bad game, he is criticized because they lost.  Not because of anyone else's play but his own.

 

Jackson goes 23/36, 237 yards and 2 TDs and they blame the running game because Henry got stuffed all game vs Philly.  And when Henry doesn't produce, they have been bad (2-5 when he doesn't get at least 90 yards rushing).

 

I want him to win it, I do.  But the playoffs are more important that regular season awards.  Lamar would be the one to tell you that better than anyone.

Sure, the playoffs are more important. But the MVP will be decided ( not announced) before the playoffs even start.