MVP hype for Allen

[Savage]

5 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

After conference championships and before Super Bowl

 

But votes already placed?

 

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

1 minute ago, Savage said:

But votes already placed?

 

Yes they were. the week after the season ended

 

[Savage]

Just now, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

Yes they were. the week after the season ended

 

Gonna be close…

 

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

3 minutes ago, Savage said:

Gonna be close…

 

I don't think if Most Valuable is truly taken into account it shouldn't be that close.

[Savage]

Just now, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

I don't think if Most Valuable is truly taken into account it shouldn't be that close.

Agreed

 

[Jeffbigalls]

He should be, Lamar Jackson isn't the MVP of the ravens, it's Henry.. without Henry Lamar doesn't come close to 41 passing tds

[JESSEFEFFER]

Ok.  I have heard it said by many sources, from Mina Kimes to Joe Marino, when they have weighed in on MVP or QB comparisons, that Lamar leads in EPA. Maybe it's the stat source or some twisted semantics of the English language, but this would need some explaining.

[zow2]

20 minutes ago, Jeffbigalls said:

He should be, Lamar Jackson isn't the MVP of the ravens, it's Henry.. without Henry Lamar doesn't come close to 41 passing tds

 

It sure would be something if Allen and the Bills smoke the Ravens, and then Lamar wins a 3rd MVP.    

[strive_for_five_guy]

2 minutes ago, zow2 said:

 

It sure would be something if Allen and the Bills smoke the Ravens, and then Lamar wins a 3rd MVP.    

If Josh doesn’t win MVP, would love for the Lamar voters to at least have some egg on their face.  Because if we win, it’d be in spite of the Ravens having Lamar, Henry, and all these other supposed great players.  There’d be no denying that Josh SHOULD be MVP, whether he actually gets it or not.

[Boatdrinks]

On 1/15/2025 at 11:37 AM, zow2 said:

A couple of the voters who we know selected Josh, said it was all about the “valuable” portion of MVP.  That means everything for this award and point to Josh Allen.  He earned the 2 seed and had 2 fewer losses with a team that was not expected to be this good. 

Yes, I agree MVP will be Allen. All pro is more a stats award and Jackson has better stats. Simple as that. So Jackson deservedly got 1st team All Pro. Josh is the most valuable, and will win his first MVP award for his performance this season. 

[zow2]

7 minutes ago, JESSEFEFFER said:

Ok.  I have heard it said by many sources, from Mina Kimes to Joe Marino, when they have weighed in on MVP or QB comparisons, that Lamar leads in EPA. Maybe it's the stat source or some twisted semantics of the English language, but this would need some explaining.

 

There's a whole bunch of metrics and analytics to mull over, but I don't know how in depth the voters go.  The whole MVP debate/narrative shifted to Lamar in week 16.  That's the day Josh didn't do much against New England and Lamar threw 3 TD's, 1 int vs Pittsburgh (while Henry ran 24 for 162).  For whatever reason, all the brilliance that Josh Allen showed in the previous 8 game stretch was thrown in the trash after that NE emotional letdown game (the week after the big Detroit win).

If Lamar wins MVP, it's because of week 16.

[JESSEFEFFER]

6 minutes ago, zow2 said:

 

It sure would be something if Allen and the Bills smoke the Ravens, and then Lamar wins a 3rd MVP.    

 

Yes.  The sequence would be 1) Josh balls out 2) Ravens lose 3) NFL awards ceremony Lamar wins MVP 4) Lamar has to go onstage to accept.  Forever awkward scene which would be something for sure.  

[JESSEFEFFER]

23 minutes ago, zow2 said:

 

There's a whole bunch of metrics and analytics to mull over, but I don't know how in depth the voters go.  The whole MVP debate/narrative shifted to Lamar in week 16.  That's the day Josh didn't do much against New England and Lamar threw 3 TD's, 1 int vs Pittsburgh (while Henry ran 24 for 162).  For whatever reason, all the brilliance that Josh Allen showed in the previous 8 game stretch was thrown in the trash after that NE emotional letdown game (the week after the big Detroit win).

If Lamar wins MVP, it's because of week 16.

Yeah I get that but EPA is one that is frequently cited and according to the reference I found, Josh led in total EPA and EPA/play.  So maybe consumers of football analytics can explain to me why this conflict of facts exists.  

[Goin Breakdown]

2 hours ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

If Josh doesn’t win MVP, would love for the Lamar voters to at least have some egg on their face.  Because if we win, it’d be in spite of the Ravens having Lamar, Henry, and all these other supposed great players.  There’d be no denying that Josh SHOULD be MVP, whether he actually gets it or not.

If the Bills don't win not only will we have to hear about how awesome the Ravens are but we'll also have to listen to the narrative to Lamar being the better Qb too. Not just MVP but better. I can take (to a point) the whole popularity contest garbage, the two sided talk about how last year stats don't matter but this year they do and all of that. That is all just narrative to give the award to Lamar. What I don't like is the whole divisive garbage going on making Buffalo and Josh out to be inferior to Lamar and the Ravens. Give Josh Henry and 9 pro bowlers and they'd still give the MVP to Lamar and go back to saying stats don't matter.  
So yeah I'm with you. All these people need egg in their faces and I'd love more than anything for it to come this week. Go Bills and sorry for my rant. 

Edited Friday at 09:40 PM by Goin Breakdown

[thronethinker]

5 minutes ago, Goin Breakdown said:

If the Bills don't win not only will we have to hear about how awesome the Ravens are but we'll also have to listen to the narrative to Lamar being the better Qb too. Not just MVP but better. I can take (to a point) the whole popularity contest garbage, the two sided talk about how last year stats don't hammer but this year they do and all of that. That is all just narrative to give the award to Lamar. What I don't like is the whole divisive garbage going on making Buffalo and Josh out to be inferior to Lamar and the Ravens. Give Josh Henry and 9 pro bowlers and they'd still give the MVP to Lamar and go back to saying stats don't matter.  
So yeah I'm with you. All these people need egg in their faces and I'd love more than anything for it to come this week. Go Bills and sorry for my rant. 

I have a feeling the national media's talking point will be how Josh Allen needs something better than Buffalo and will never win till he's on a Team

they like more.

Edited Friday at 07:33 PM by thronethinker

[Buftex]

The more talk there is, the less I care. If Josh wins it, it will only confirm, to all of us, what we already  know...but it will also just take the whole MVP argument to even more absurd levels.  The MVP award only really matters in national perception.  The narrative will be that Lamar got screwed, the NFL favors Allen...and most depressingly, that there is some racial undertone to the whole thing.  ***** the MVP!  A Super Bowl is the only thing that will ever end the argument!

[Ralonzo]

1 hour ago, zow2 said:

all the brilliance that Josh Allen showed in the previous 8 game stretch was thrown in the trash after that NE emotional letdown game (the week after the big Detroit win).

 

It wasn't an emotional letdown game as much as a preseason game. By that point the Bills were essentially locked in at #2 seed, and were NOT going to open the playbook and lay down film for playoff opponents. Hardly anyone was getting open anywhere, Brady didn't really run anything to attack the Pats that wasn't already on film already. The previous month they'd be going all-out toward first the division title (SF game) and #1 seed. After the Rams loss and Lions win and KC continuing to somehow not lose, the final 3 games became irrelevant - and the Bills still won till they fully emptied the bench Week 18.

1 hour ago, JESSEFEFFER said:

Yeah I get that but EPA is one that is frequently cited and according to the reference I found, Josh led in total EPA and EPA/play.  So maybe consumers of football analytics can explain to me why this conflict of facts exists.  

 

Lamar's passing EPA was better which is the only stat that's important for QB's unless you are a running QB in which case the combined EPA is very important unless unless you're Lamar Jackson and your running EPA isn't very good in which case it's not important at all.

[JESSEFEFFER]

22 minutes ago, Ralonzo said:

 

It wasn't an emotional letdown game as much as a preseason game. By that point the Bills were essentially locked in at #2 seed, and were NOT going to open the playbook and lay down film for playoff opponents. Hardly anyone was getting open anywhere, Brady didn't really run anything to attack the Pats that wasn't already on film already. The previous month they'd be going all-out toward first the division title (SF game) and #1 seed. After the Rams loss and Lions win and KC continuing to somehow not lose, the final 3 games became irrelevant - and the Bills still won till they fully emptied the bench Week 18.

 

Lamar's passing EPA was better which is the only stat that's important for QB's unless you are a running QB in which case the combined EPA is very important unless unless you're Lamar Jackson and your running EPA isn't very good in which case it's not important at all.

Got it.  Makes sense now.   Obviously the Bills lean on Cook and Josh to run it in when close.   I think I hear people say that Lamar's EPA/play is higher.  Maybe people are just puking out mangled facts 

[Goin Breakdown]

2 hours ago, thronethinker said:

I have a feeling the national media's talking point will be how Josh Allen needs something better than Buffalo and will never win till he's on a Team

they like more.

Man. You may be right. I'd hate that chatter for sure 

[mannc]

1 hour ago, Buftex said:

The more talk there is, the less I care. If Josh wins it, it will only confirm, to all of us, what we already  know...but it will also just take the whole MVP argument to even more absurd levels.  The MVP award only really matters in national perception.  The narrative will be that Lamar got screwed, the NFL favors Allen...and most depressingly, that there is some racial undertone to the whole thing.  ***** the MVP!  A Super Bowl is the only thing that will ever end the argument!

Something tells me that this "Lamar v Josh" MVP controversy is just stoking Mahomes's competitive fires, and that he's somehow using it as a way to feel "disrespected" by the national media, the Ravens and the Bills.  Anyone who thinks KC won't be the toughest of outs is kidding themselves...