MVP hype for Allen

[The Jokeman]

On 1/12/2025 at 4:28 PM, TheBrownBear said:

Good post.  Both guys are very deserving. Lamar with the better stats and the head to head win. No doubt that he is an elite passer now. But I also think he has the better supporting cast.  Josh did a ton this year without much elite talent (outside of Cook).  Just a very tough vote this year. 

 

Here's to an entertaining, hard fought game next weekend.

Here's my issue when people talk about Lamar's head to head win over Josh. That's great so if we are looking at that then Josh only lost two other games this season, vs Houston and the Rams by 5 total points (two teams that advanced to the second round of the playoffs) by contrast Lamar lost five other games by 22 total points in which he lost to the Eagles, Steelers, Browns, Raiders and Chiefs (two teams that advanced to the second round of players one of which the Bills beat).  If Josh plays the Patriots he might very well equaled Lamar's TD numbers and the Bills have two more wins than the Ravens and again the #2 seed vs the Ravens at the #3 seed. So tell me how Lamar had a better season than Josh?

Edited 23 hours ago by The Jokeman

[JP51]

1 minute ago, The Jokeman said:

Here's my issue when people talk about Lamar's head to head win over Josh. That's great so if we are looking at that then Josh only two other games this season, vs Houston and the Rams by contrast Lamar lost five in which he lost to the Eagles, Steelers, Browns, Raiders and Chiefs. If Josh plays the Patriots he might very well equaled Lamar's TD numbers and the Bills have two more wins than the Ravens and again the #2 seed vs the Ravens at the #3 seed. So tell me how Lamar had a better season than Josh?

I think my issue with the whole thing is the concept of the player most valuable to his team... clearly this is Josh, I think if you took out Lamar and Josh for the season the ravens have more wins.  So, if it is going to be based solely on stats... take that part out and make it the MVSG most valuable stat guy... or the passing leader or TD leader etc... but in the end... I really just want a superbowl... so they can pick who they want... 

[The Jokeman]

2 minutes ago, JP51 said:

I think my issue with the whole thing is the concept of the player most valuable to his team... clearly this is Josh, I think if you took out Lamar and Josh for the season the ravens have more wins.  So, if it is going to be based solely on stats... take that part out and make it the MVSG most valuable stat guy... or the passing leader or TD leader etc... but in the end... I really just want a superbowl... so they can pick who they want... 

I agree that if Josh loses the MVP but wins the Lombardi I could care less but if both Lamar and Josh don't win the Lombardi than I have issues. 

Edited 23 hours ago by The Jokeman

[JP51]

4 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

I agree that if Josh loses the MVP but wins the Lombardi I could care less but if both Lamar and Josh don't win the Lombardi than I have issues. 

yeah that would up the sting a bit... 

[GoBills808]

Allen isn't winning MVP

 

and the moment you realized the people saying 'you can't hold Henry's greatness against Lamar' are the same people who said 'Allen wasn't good before Diggs' is when you should have known

 

they won't just adjust the criteria, they'll change their actual arguments

 

 

[Billl]

52 minutes ago, Process said:

No you can't. Those are old odds. Sportsbooks took them down after all pro was released and likely won't be offering them again.

Yeah, Vegas isn’t big on letting people bet on events that have already taken place.

[LabattBlue]

117 pages of hand wringing over who should be the MVP?  😂

[WillSaints81]

On 1/12/2025 at 4:28 PM, TheBrownBear said:

Good post.  Both guys are very deserving. Lamar with the better stats and the head to head win. No doubt that he is an elite passer now. But I also think he has the better supporting cast.  Josh did a ton this year without much elite talent (outside of Cook).  Just a very tough vote this year. 

 

Here's to an entertaining, hard fought game next weekend.

I can't call Lamar an elite passer because he's a dual threat QB. Also defenses haven't gotten this kind of game film on Lamar either but will next year.

[TheBrownBear]

2 minutes ago, WillSaints81 said:

I can't call Lamar an elite passer because he's a dual threat QB. Also defenses haven't gotten this kind of game film on Lamar either but will next year.

Um...is this post from 2019?  Lol. Lamar has been in the league for 7 years. 

 

Allen is a dual threat QB.  Is he an elite passer?

 

If this was meant as sarcasm, I apologize for the thickness of my skull. 😁

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

34 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Allen isn't winning MVP

 

and the moment you realized the people saying 'you can't hold Henry's greatness against Lamar' are the same people who said 'Allen wasn't good before Diggs' is when you should have known

 

they won't just adjust the criteria, they'll change their actual arguments

 

 

Lamar being announced mvp after losing to the bills I would enjoy probably even more than Josh winning MVP tbh lol a three time mvp winner hardly ever making it past the divisional round would be completely unprecedented and expose the award as the pretty silly popularity contest it is imo. 

[Kelly to Allen]

7 minutes ago, WillSaints81 said:

I can't call Lamar an elite passer because he's a dual threat QB. Also defenses haven't gotten this kind of game film on Lamar either but will next year.

 

He's not an elite passer but he's also underrated as a traditional drop back QB. He can make every throw in the pocket 

 

He has always reminded me of Cunningham but a little better and even faster. 

[zow2]

I still find it hard to believe they will award Lamar another MVP.  He’s not 3 MVPs to Zero better than Allen.  He’s not 3 MVPs to two better than Mahomes. Before the vote Lamar had won two playoff games.  The voters do take into consideration historical precedent. They aren’t just looking into a vacuum of stats like maybe they do for the 2024 season All-Pro team.  

 

I cannot believe that Allen “lost” the MVP because he was mediocre against NE in a flat emotional letdown game overall after the big Detroit victory.  

 

I need to see that award announced for Lamar before I believe it. 

[Kelly to Allen]

7 minutes ago, zow2 said:

I still find it hard to believe they will award Lamar another MVP.  He’s not 3 MVPs to Zero better than Allen.  He’s not 3 MVPs to two better than Mahomes. Before the vote Lamar had won two playoff games.  The voters do take into consideration historical precedent. They aren’t just looking into a vacuum of stats like maybe they do for the 2024 season All-Pro team.  

 

I cannot believe that Allen “lost” the MVP because he was mediocre against NE in a flat emotional letdown game overall after the big Detroit victory.  

 

I need to see that award announced for Lamar before I believe it. 

 

I honestly don't care anymore. Winning Sunday will be a million times more rewarding 

 

And I am going to rub it in everyone's face on Twitter too. Yes I'm that immature 

[ColoradoBills]

MVP, MVP, we don't need no stinking MVP!

 

 

[strive_for_five_guy]

1 hour ago, zow2 said:

I still find it hard to believe they will award Lamar another MVP.  He’s not 3 MVPs to Zero better than Allen.  He’s not 3 MVPs to two better than Mahomes. Before the vote Lamar had won two playoff games.  The voters do take into consideration historical precedent. They aren’t just looking into a vacuum of stats like maybe they do for the 2024 season All-Pro team.  

 

I cannot believe that Allen “lost” the MVP because he was mediocre against NE in a flat emotional letdown game overall after the big Detroit victory.  

 

I need to see that award announced for Lamar before I believe it. 

This is what I’m hoping, although some pundits (like Florio & Simms) talk like it’s a certainty that Lamar is winning.  Hope enough voters ultimately distinguished MVP from All-Pro this year, but not counting on it either.  Regardless, if the Bills beat the Ravens this weekend, that matters more than whoever actually wins the MVP.

 

 

[Success]

I've grown to absolutely hate this debate. It has led to Bills fans diminishing what Lamar has done & how good he is, and the same for Ravens fans and Allen.  It has become pretty bitter online, and silly.

 

I'm a Jackson fan, and will continue to be a Jackson fan.  I love great QB play in the league, and he's without a doubt one of the best.  If he gets a 3rd, good on him - it would be hard to argue that he hasn't earned it.

 

Allen needs a SB title more than an MVP.  When people talk about great QB's of the past, that weighs more heavily anyway.

 

[zow2]

Allen was the betting favorite by A LOT, heading into December.  All he did in December was become the first player in NFL History to have 18+ total TD's and 1 or fewer turnovers in a month.

 

And yet somehow Josh LOST the MVP in December?  If that's the standard, then there is nothing he can possibly do going forward to ever win a League MVP.  He might as well never be considered for an MVP again if Lamar vaulted past him in December.  It's complete and absolute garbage from the voters if that happens.

[Dukestreetking]

On 1/12/2025 at 9:12 PM, Real McClappy said:

Vote for the hell of it on main page. Allen is currently winning by peeps.

 

https://www.nfl.com/

Thanks, wouldn't have seen this.

 

Update, just for S&G: he's pacing the field at 38%, w 95k votes. Of which, perhaps, 94k are from this thread.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

28 minutes ago, Success said:

I've grown to absolutely hate this debate. It has led to Bills fans diminishing what Lamar has done & how good he is, and the same for Ravens fans and Allen.  It has become pretty bitter online, and silly.

 

I'm a Jackson fan, and will continue to be a Jackson fan.  I love great QB play in the league, and he's without a doubt one of the best.  If he gets a 3rd, good on him - it would be hard to argue that he hasn't earned it.

 

Allen needs a SB title more than an MVP.  When people talk about great QB's of the past, that weighs more heavily anyway.

 

Social media is always bitter to be fair haha I think talkin to real people about it leads to a real interesting debate about what the mvp should mean.  In fact making Josh’s case heard should improve the validity of the award in the future imo even if he doesn’t win.

 

 If it’s an almost entirely stats driven thing that’s fine, just be consistent with it or it’s just a popularity contest.  I don’t think it’s diminishing Lamar’s accomplishments at all to say he probably was not the number 1 most valuable player in the league last year and that the methodology that won him the award last year has been pretty much turned on its head this year.  It really has nothing to do with him as a player at all and the issue is entirely with the voters in my mind. Lamar is a great player and seems like a genuinely good dude.  

Edited 19 hours ago by Generic_Bills_Fan

[strive_for_five_guy]

54 minutes ago, zow2 said:

Allen was the betting favorite by A LOT, heading into December.  All he did in December was become the first player in NFL History to have 18+ total TD's and 1 or fewer turnovers in a month.

 

And yet somehow Josh LOST the MVP in December?  If that's the standard, then there is nothing he can possibly do going forward to ever win a League MVP.  He might as well never be considered for an MVP again if Lamar vaulted past him in December.  It's complete and absolute garbage from the voters if that happens.

If you want to get your hopes back up, this CBS sports writer makes a good comp to Manning v McNair back in 2003, and why Josh still has a good chance to win MVP even though Lamar was 1st team all-pro.  Similar argument as Peter King, makes a lot of sense.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/lamar-jackson-vs-josh-allen-which-qb-deserves-mvp-most-and-why-its-not-a-done-deal-despite-all-pro-results/amp/