MVP hype for Allen

[Kelly to Allen]

1 minute ago, Buryravens said:

At the very least you have to admit Mahomes doesn’t deserve to sniff MVP this year. He’s been very very average. 

 

Yes I agree, mahomes isn't MVP this year although it depends on the criteria or methodology, which goes wherever the wind blows. He deserved to be in the pro bowl tho over burrow. But that's missing the point entirely, ( not you, but DC orange is)

Edited Saturday at 10:41 PM by Kelly to Allen

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

43 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

Would totally love if all the Lamar voters get egg on their faces.

A guy with 3 mvps but no Super Bowl appearances would be unprecedented im pretty sure 

[Dr.Mantis_Toboggan]

I don’t get the MVP criteria personally. I see articles now saying Lamar is likely to win bc he was named 1st team All Pro.

 

So last year, Allen has the bigger offensive numbers, but Lamar has the team wins, so Lamar gets MVP with pedestrian stats (by MVP standards)

 

This year, Allen gets the wins with a team many were picking to not even win their own division bc “the window was closed” and “rebuilding”, cuts down the INTs, leads the team to 13 wins, but Lamar with an extra game he NEEDED to play, in a year you could argue the Ravens fell short of regular season expectations, regardless he’s STILL MVP???

 

“Voters” need to pick a lane. It can’t be team wins matter one year, then the next it’s irrelevant essentially and you’re going to give the MVP to a player on the 3 seed who needed a week 18 win to close out their division...

Edited Sunday at 12:48 AM by Dr.Mantis_Toboggan

[Thrivefourfive]

1 minute ago, Dr.Mantis_Toboggan said:

I don’t get the MVP criteria personally. I see articles now saying Lamar is likely to win bc he was named 1st team All Pro.

 

So last year, Allen has the bigger offensive numbers, but Lamar has the team wins, so Lamar gets MVP with pedestrian stats (by MVP standards)

 

This year, Allen gets the wins with a team many were picking to not even win their own division bc “the window was closed” and “rebuilding”, cuts down the INTs, leads the team to 13 wins, but Lamar with an extra game he NEEDED to play, and you could make the argument the Ravens fell short of regular season expectations, but he’s STILL MVP???

 

“Voters” need to pick a lane. It can’t be team wins matter one year, then the next it’s irrelevant essentially and you’re going to give the MVP to a player on the 3 seed who needed a week 18 win to close out their division...

Didn’t know Jackson won 1st Team All Pro. I used to love that notch in a player’s belt. Meant a lot. Meant, of all the badass hall of famers that took the field that year, your ***** was better.
 

But now, for QB, it’s an MVP second place prize. 
 

Of course the MVP should be First Team All Pro. I just won’t listen to a counter argument to it. 
 

So, cool. Another arrowhead pointing at MVP for JA17. Carry on

[tigerthelion]

1 hour ago, Buryravens said:

At the very least you have to admit Mahomes doesn’t deserve to sniff MVP this year. He’s been very very average. 

You just described Lamar Jackson's season last year. Who won MVP last year?

Edited Saturday at 11:51 PM by tigerthelion

[Buryravens]

3 minutes ago, tigerthelion said:

You just described Lamar Jackson's season last year.

Lamar sat out 7 entire 4th quarters in 2023, along with the entire week 18 game. He sat out nearly 3 complete games…
 

All while spanking any playoff team by an average margin of victory of 11.6 meanwhile the bills margin of victory over playoff teams this year is 7.5. 

[Punch]

Fwiw, Mark Craig is one of the AP's 50 voters:

 

 

[Doc]

27 minutes ago, Buryravens said:

Lamar sat out 7 entire 4th quarters in 2023, along with the entire week 18 game. He sat out nearly 3 complete games…
 

All while spanking any playoff team by an average margin of victory of 11.6 meanwhile the bills margin of victory over playoff teams this year is 7.5. 

 

Are you going by memory?  Because Jackson actually sat out the final drives (3 plays each) in 2 games, the final quarter of another and sat the last game.  So basically a game and a quarter, not 3.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JackLa00/gamelog/2023/

 

As for the last sentence, neither QB plays defense. 

Edited Sunday at 12:25 AM by Doc

[Kelly to Allen]

43 minutes ago, Buryravens said:

Lamar sat out 7 entire 4th quarters in 2023, along with the entire week 18 game. He sat out nearly 3 complete games…
 

All while spanking any playoff team by an average margin of victory of 11.6 meanwhile the bills margin of victory over playoff teams this year is 7.5. 

 

Allen sat out or just handed the ball off in 5 4th qtrs last year. 

 

But it's a moot point because Allen was 

 

1st in total tds tds ( by a significant margin)

More passing touchdowns than Lamar 

More rushing tds than Lamar ( tied NFL record)

More passing yds than Lamar 

More total yds than Lamar 

NFL record in offensive production %

1st in yds

1st in total EPA ( someone double check me, I can't remember)

And a higher qbr then Lamar 

Allen was also 1st in passing EPA outside the pocket 

Allen was also first in big time throws 

Won the 2 seed 

 

The difference in turnovers was 9

If you magically turned the total difference in turnovers to tds for Lamar, Allen still had more tds...

 

Allen also beat mahomes on the road 

 

Kurt Warner won MVP with more ints and turnovers 

 

No QB in NFL history has ever won MVP outside the top 10 in passing yds or passing tds...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited Sunday at 12:42 AM by Kelly to Allen

[Blank Stare]

4 hours ago, AllenMania said:

Mike Florio reveals he voted for Lamar Jackson. 
https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/pfts-2024-nfl-most-valuable-player-lamar-jackson

Who didn’t see him picking Lamar?  This guy is one of the biggest blowhards going.  

[Punch]

1 hour ago, Kelly to Allen said:

 

Allen sat out or just handed the ball off in 5 4th qtrs last year. 

 

But it's a moot point because Allen was 

 

1st in total tds tds ( by a significant margin)

More passing touchdowns than Lamar 

More rushing tds than Lamar ( tied NFL record)

More passing yds than Lamar 

More total yds than Lamar 

NFL record in offensive production %

1st in yds

1st in total EPA ( someone double check me, I can't remember)

And a higher qbr then Lamar 

Allen was also 1st in passing EPA outside the pocket 

Allen was also first in big time throws 

Won the 2 seed 

 

The difference in turnovers was 9

If you magically turned the total difference in turnovers to tds for Lamar, Allen still had more tds...

 

Allen also beat mahomes on the road 

 

Kurt Warner won MVP with more ints and turnovers 

 

No QB in NFL history has ever won MVP outside the top 10 in passing yds or passing tds...

 

 

 

 

 

 

In my opinion, this is the crux of the consternation as a Bills fan: moreso that Lamar was awarded the 2023 MVP at all and not so much that Allen didn't get it, although a case could be made he was deserving as Aaron Schatz established.

[Kelly to Allen]

8 minutes ago, Punch said:

In my opinion, this is the crux of the consternation as a Bills fan: moreso that Lamar was awarded the 2023 MVP at all and not so much that Allen didn't get it, although a case could be made he was deserving as Aaron Schatz established.

 

It's bigger than Allen in many respects. The AP/ NFL media etc is putting Lamar in a tier/ conversation with Brady, Montana and Mahomes 

 

It's inappropriate and ridiculous , same thing would be inappropriate for Allen 

 

Let Lamar have a great playoff run and win the championship. Then the accolades and multiple MVPs are appropriate 

 

No QB has ever won a 3rd MVP in NFL history before winning a super bowl. It's More egregious because his playoff resume is terrible. 

 

That being said he looks good tonight. As just a fan of the game I honestly want him to look great tonight. It's not about wanting Lamar to look bad to make the ap look bad. It's just putting the cart before the horse

Edited Sunday at 01:53 AM by Kelly to Allen

[Punch]

1 minute ago, Kelly to Allen said:

 

It's bigger than Allen in many respects. The AP/ NFL media etc is putting Lamar in a tier/ conversation with Brady, Montana and Mahomes 

 

It's inappropriate and ridiculous , same thing would be inappropriate for Allen 

 

Let Lamar have a great playoff run and win the championship. Then the accolades and multiple MVPs are appropriate 

 

No QB has ever won a 3rd MVP in NFL history before winning a super bowl. It's More egregious because his playoff resume is terrible. 

 

That being said he looks good tonight. As just a fan of the game I honestly want him to look great tonight. 

I think if the 2023 MVP was awarded to CMC (or anyone else really), I would not be so annoyed by the 2024 race. I still believe in the case for Josh (and think its still in possible), but 2023 created a mess for how its discussed in the media and ultimately awarded.

[cisco2403]

1 hour ago, Punch said:

Fwiw, Mark Craig is one of the AP's 50 voters:

 

 

Peter King (another MVP voter) was adamant Allen should be MVP as well. Sounds like he may have voted Lamar 1st team All Pro. 
 

https://www.si.com/nfl/bills/

 

Thinking Allen will have enough votes to get MVP.

 

[Punch]

Just now, cisco2403 said:

Peter King (another MVP voter) was adamant Allen should be MVP as well. Sounds like he may have voted Lamar 1st team All Pro. 
 

https://www.si.com/nfl/bills/

 

Thinking Allen will have enough votes to get MVP.

 

It sounds like a very realistic outcome, despite all the bluster from the talking heads. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

NFL.com has online vote for MVP going on. 200K votes so far and Josh is leading with 38% of the votes with Barkley in second place 

[H2o]

14 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

NFL.com has online vote for MVP going on. 200K votes so far and Josh is leading with 38% of the votes with Barkley in second place 

That's a fan vote though. We're talking about the same voters who just selected Lamar as 1st Team All-Pro at the QB position. It will be the same with the MVP. It is what it is. 

[ChrisWatson#21]

3 hours ago, Kelly to Allen said:

 

Allen sat out or just handed the ball off in 5 4th qtrs last year. 

 

But it's a moot point because Allen was 

 

1st in total tds tds ( by a significant margin)

More passing touchdowns than Lamar 

More rushing tds than Lamar ( tied NFL record)

More passing yds than Lamar 

More total yds than Lamar 

NFL record in offensive production %

1st in yds

1st in total EPA ( someone double check me, I can't remember)

And a higher qbr then Lamar 

Allen was also 1st in passing EPA outside the pocket 

Allen was also first in big time throws 

Won the 2 seed 

 

The difference in turnovers was 9

If you magically turned the total difference in turnovers to tds for Lamar, Allen still had more tds...

 

Allen also beat mahomes on the road 

 

Kurt Warner won MVP with more ints and turnovers 

 

No QB in NFL history has ever won MVP outside the top 10 in passing yds or passing tds...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jackson also got sacked 13 more times than Allen last season.  You didn’t hear about it from the pundits though.  

[Buffalo716]

5 minutes ago, H2o said:

That's a fan vote though. We're talking about the same voters who just selected Lamar as 1st Team All-Pro at the QB position. It will be the same with the MVP. It is what it is. 

That's not how it works 

 

MVP and all pro have different criteria... One is statistically the best regular season quarterback and one is the most valuable player to his team

 

Yes they overlapped sometimes but they're not linked

[DCOrange]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

That's not how it works 

 

MVP and all pro have different criteria... One is statistically the best regular season quarterback and one is the most valuable player to his team

 

Yes they overlapped sometimes but they're not linked

Sometimes is selling it a bit short here. 

 

I hope to be surprised but it's literally happened once in the history of the league (twice if you count McNair, but first team All Pro QB Peyton also technically won that year).

 

At any rate, I think the split ballot angle of people voting Lamar for All Pro and Josh for MVP isn't very likely. Maybe the more likely path for Josh is if Saquon syphons off enough of Lamar's votes to tip the MVP to Josh.