MVP hype for Allen

[Ralonzo]

2 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

On NFL network, they are combining Lamar Jackson’s and Josh Allen’s playoff record In talking about them.
 

they don’t really mention that Allen has the better playoff record and has historically some of the best playoff stats ever. 

 

Oh this is gonna be just swell. "Combined 7-9 in the playoffs, the two highest winning %ages to never win a SB"

 

Mooch predicts Josh to throw 12 TDs this post-season FWIW. So that implies Allen's throwing 6 in each of the 2 games until Lamar and the Ravens eliminate the Bills, OR Josh is going to average 3 TD/game, which I can live with.

[Coach Tuesday]

Honestly co-MVPs would be the fairest outcome.

[AllenMania]

Mike Florio reveals he voted for Lamar Jackson. 
https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/pfts-2024-nfl-most-valuable-player-lamar-jackson

[Billznut]

1 minute ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Honestly co-MVPs would be the fairest outcome.

At this point, you’re correct. I never liked the co-mvp idea. This year it actually is starting to make some sense. Highly doubt it’ll happen. Lamar has all the momentum now from the talking heads. 

1 minute ago, AllenMania said:

Mike Florio reveals he voted for Lamar Jackson. 
https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/pfts-2024-nfl-most-valuable-player-lamar-jackson

And just a couple weeks ago Florio was saying he was voting for Josh. He is one of many flip floppers the past few weeks. 

[UKBillFan]

1 hour ago, Ralonzo said:

Steve Smith on NFLN

 

 

I don't even know where to start with how willfully incorrect all of that is. "All season long" was 8-5 at one point, was it not? Who's been out there padding in the 4th quarter up 30 points in the "last 4 week sprint" and who's been sitting games and running preseason game plans after having clinched all the things?

 

 

 

And actually it was the run from the Seahawks (week 8 ) to the Lions (week 15) which propelled Josh's case. Two of the games from the last four weeks - Pats, and to a lesser extent, the Jets - actually harmed his case if anything. And he only took one snap at Foxborough.

[Low Positive]

Lamar is going win another MVP because he played an entire game in week 18. The statistical gap is just too big now. If Josh wanted to win, he would have had to have played in the 4th against the Jets to get his passing yards higher. The Ravens did everything to win that award for Lamar, including allowing him to put the entire franchise at risk by playing meaningless snaps to pad his stats against the Texans and Giants. It seems to mean a lot to the city of Baltimore. 

[Doc Brown]

13 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Honestly co-MVPs would be the fairest outcome.

Impossible now with the new one to five grading system.

[Warriorspikes51]

2 minutes ago, Low Positive said:

Lamar is going win another MVP because he played an entire game in week 18. The statistical gap is just too big now. If Josh wanted to win, he would have had to have played in the 4th against the Jets to get his passing yards higher. The Ravens did everything to win that award for Lamar, including allowing him to put the entire franchise at risk by playing meaningless snaps to pad his stats against the Texans and Giants. It seems to mean a lot to the city of Baltimore. 

this logic makes no sense to determine who is the MVP

 

it’s become an award of who the AP’s favorite QB is

Lamar piling up stats against the Giants and Browns while Allen beat KC by himself on 1 play and defeating the Lions

 

tells me all I need to know….the award no longer means much

 

 

Edited Saturday at 08:46 PM by Warriorspikes51

[DCOrange]

3 hours ago, H2o said:

They are both deserving. Lamar has had a FANTASTIC season. Josh has had a FANTASTIC season.

 

My argument for Josh is two fold. One, he led his team to the 2nd seed in the AFC despite the horrendous defensive performances we have seen. We have the 2nd worst 3rd down defense in the league. Lamar has the better defense on his side, and his team still came up with less wins. Josh led his team to victories over both #1 seeds in the Playoffs, absolutely shining in both performances. 

 

Two, Josh put up almost 4,300 total yards and 41 total TD's without a single 1,000 yard WR and Cook just barely scraping past 1,000. We have the most prolific scoring offense since the Pats in '07. He's doing all of this with no #1 WR. These guys are a couple of #2 (yes, I see Cooper as a 2 at this stage. A guy who also came in multiple games into the season). We have a couple of solid slot guys in Shakir and Samuel (with Samuel being the lesser of the two). Then some 3rd and 4th men up on any other team. All of these guys are playing meaningful snaps here, and Josh is making them look better than anyone else could. 

 

The problem I have with all of the so called "sports media" 🤡's is last year Josh had superior stats, turnovers or not. Josh was better all the way around. The argument from those dorks last year was team record. That's all you heard was team record and turnovers. This year Josh has lesser weaponry, has less turnovers as a whole, his team has a better record, he beat the two best teams from each conference, but now the 🤡's argue it's about the stats. It's all stats, stats, stats. Lamar is disrespected and underappreciated. Josh would only get the award because people are tired of voting for Lamar. Lamar is MJ. Josh is Charles Barkley. It's stupid. It's shallow. It shows their bias. 

I'm with you for the most part and Josh would have gotten my vote, but the defense part isn't as simple as you think. Baltimore's defense locked in down the stretch and I think pretty much everyone would take theirs over ours now, but for the season overall, their defense got off to a horrendous start while ours was admittedly leaky but also generated a lot of turnovers, giving Josh the best starting field position in the entire league. As a result, Lamar ranks higher in the "QB Betrayal Index" which is basically comparing the QB's EPA to his defense's and special teams' EPA. Lamar ultimately ranked ahead of Josh in EPA while also having the worse defense and special teams. The only QB that was "betrayed" more than Lamar this season was unsurprisingly Burrow. 

 

Baltimore ultimately finished one game behind us and it's mostly because Lamar kept them afloat while the defense and special teams was hot garbage for most of the season. The average MVP this century has posted 0.27 EPA per game; in games where Lamar managed that feat this season, Baltimore is 11-0 and 0-5 when he failed to reach that level. Buffalo was 7-1 when Josh hit the MVP threshold and 6-2 when he did not. 

 

At the end of the day, we're really splitting hairs this year. Both QBs were amazing and you can make a very strong argument for both of them, both from a stats and a value perspective. Last year, I don't think either of them should have won it. Neither of them played at an MVP level IMO, but somebody has to win it every year and I guess the voters opted for the best player on the best team since nobody had a particularly special season. 

[Low Positive]

2 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

this logic makes no sense to determine who is the MVP

Florio's reasoning is that Lamar's numbers are better. They're better because they allowed him to pad the stats.

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

I'm with you for the most part and Josh would have gotten my vote, but the defense part isn't as simple as you think. Baltimore's defense locked in down the stretch and I think pretty much everyone would take theirs over ours now, but for the season overall, their defense got off to a horrendous start while ours was admittedly leaky but also generated a lot of turnovers, giving Josh the best starting field position in the entire league. As a result, Lamar ranks higher in the "QB Betrayal Index" which is basically comparing the QB's EPA to his defense's and special teams' EPA. Lamar ultimately ranked ahead of Josh in EPA while also having the worse defense and special teams. The only QB that was "betrayed" more than Lamar this season was unsurprisingly Burrow. 

 

Baltimore ultimately finished one game behind us and it's mostly because Lamar kept them afloat while the defense and special teams was hot garbage for most of the season. The average MVP this century has posted 0.27 EPA per game; in games where Lamar managed that feat this season, Baltimore is 11-0 and 0-5 when he failed to reach that level. Buffalo was 7-1 when Josh hit the MVP threshold and 6-2 when he did not. 

 

At the end of the day, we're really splitting hairs this year. Both QBs were amazing and you can make a very strong argument for both of them, both from a stats and a value perspective. Last year, I don't think either of them should have won it. Neither of them played at an MVP level IMO, but somebody has to win it every year and I guess the voters opted for the best player on the best team since nobody had a particularly special season. 

incorrect

 

Allen finished first in the NFL in total EPA and ahead of Lamar in EPA/dropback

[Warriorspikes51]

Just now, Low Positive said:

Florio's reasoning is that Lamar's numbers are better. They're better because they allowed him to pad the stats.

Florio is a clown has been for years

[Low Positive]

Just now, Warriorspikes51 said:

Florio is a clown has been for years

He's a clown with an MVP vote. Most of the MVP voters are clowns. 

[Warriorspikes51]

Just now, Low Positive said:

He's a clown with an MVP vote. Most of the MVP voters are clowns. 

yes. Let coaching staffs vote on All Pro and MVP

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, Chugga said:

This year Josh loses WR1 & WR2 and Lamar gains a HOF RB.  More with less?  Josh essentially all but eliminates his turnovers.  Then Josh wins more games and has quality wins over the two best teams in the league.

 

It's obvious if Josh doesn't win it this year he never will. Before the season the narrative from most analysts was that the Bills weren't even favorites for their own division because they lost too many players, most notably Diggs and Davis. Imagine back then if you had told any of those analysts we would finish as a top 2 seed only losing 3 real games, we would beat the #1 seed in both conferences, and that we would average over 30 PPG with Allen having the lowest turnovers of his career and still 40+ TDs. Every single one of those analysts would have said if that happens Allen is definitely going to be the MVP, no question. That was the established narrative. Well here we are and his performance if anything was even more impressive than what that summary would have you believe, and still he is no longer the favorite.

 

It's practically impossible for him to do anything more impressive than what he did this year, and unless our coaching and/or talent evaluation drastically improves in the near future it's practically impossible for us to be the #1 seed in the AFC. So it's this year or never for Allen IMO. And I really just don't understand why.

[Aussie Joe]

27 minutes ago, AllenMania said:

Mike Florio reveals he voted for Lamar Jackson. 
https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/pfts-2024-nfl-most-valuable-player-lamar-jackson

I’m expecting a lot of these guys to say “Josh was a close second “…

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

It's obvious if Josh doesn't win it this year he never will. Before the season the narrative from most analysts was that the Bills weren't even favorites for their own division because they lost too many players, most notably Diggs and Davis. Imagine back then if you had told any of those analysts we would finish as a top 2 seed only losing 3 real games, we would beat the #1 seed in both conferences, and that we would average over 30 PPG with Allen having the lowest turnovers of his career and still 40+ TDs. Every single one of those analysts would have said if that happens Allen is definitely going to be the MVP, no question. That was the established narrative. Well here we are and his performance if anything was even more impressive than what that summary would have you believe, and still he is no longer the favorite.

 

It's practically impossible for him to do anything more impressive than what he did this year, and unless our coaching and/or talent evaluation drastically improves in the near future it's practically impossible for us to be the #1 seed in the AFC. So it's this year or never for Allen IMO. And I really just don't understand why.

Yes

 

The standard for Allen is 'you didn't play better than this guy in a given year' 

 

That's never been the standard as far as I can remember. There were about 5 QBs who played better than Lamar last season.

[Kangaxx]

38 minutes ago, AllenMania said:

Mike Florio reveals he voted for Lamar Jackson. 
https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/pfts-2024-nfl-most-valuable-player-lamar-jackson

Least surprising thing ever. I'm sure he thinks he important enough to right historical wrongs. 

Edited Saturday at 09:09 PM by Kangaxx

[Low Positive]

7 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Yes

 

The standard for Allen is 'you didn't play better than this guy in a given year' 

 

That's never been the standard as far as I can remember. There were about 5 QBs who played better than Lamar last season.

They want to vote for Lamar, so they look for reasons to justify it. Last year they used team wins, this year they used stats. They don't want to vote for Josh, so they look for reasons not to do so. Last year they used INTs and this year they used fewer passing yards. At this point, they might as well name it the Lamar Jackson annual MVP award. He'll win again next year. 

[Success]

40 minutes ago, AllenMania said:

Mike Florio reveals he voted for Lamar Jackson. 
https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/pfts-2024-nfl-most-valuable-player-lamar-jackson

 

Man, do I hope the Steelers win tonight.