strive_for_five_guy Posted January 4 Posted January 4 16 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen said: Possibly the best oline in the NFL A te room that is top 5 and future star in Kincaid A young Kamara in cook A possible future Brandon Marshall in Coleman A legitimate number one and perennial pro bowl wr in Cooper The next Andre Reed in Shakir Hollins is extremely underrated Samuel healthy is important as we saw how good he was vs KC Ray Davis would be rb1 on many rosters and reminds me of more instinctive, slightly faster Travis Henry Rousseau has been one of the most dominant dlineman in the NFL this year. He reminds me of Charles Mann or Sean Jones Oliver is one of the most explosive 3techs in the NFL Von Miller can still take over a game and tilt the field Our linebackers fully healthy are awesome Benford has played at a borderline all pro level We have another all pro in Johnson The safety position is mixed with veteran's and youth And we have maybe the best 3rd down rb in the NFL There is a reason we are awesome 😎 So Lamar is putting up better stats than Josh with a worse roster? Quote
Kelly to Allen Posted January 4 Posted January 4 3 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said: So Lamar is putting up better stats than Josh with a worse roster? Yes. But Lamars passer rating is highly misleading. 2 Quote
VW82 Posted January 4 Posted January 4 29 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen said: Possibly the best oline in the NFL A te room that is top 5 and future star in Kincaid A young Kamara in cook A possible future Brandon Marshall in Coleman A legitimate number one and perennial pro bowl wr in Cooper The next Andre Reed in Shakir Hollins is extremely underrated Samuel healthy is important as we saw how good he was vs KC Ray Davis would be rb1 on many rosters and reminds me of more instinctive, slightly faster Travis Henry Rousseau has been one of the most dominant dlineman in the NFL this year. He reminds me of Charles Mann or Sean Jones Oliver is one of the most explosive 3techs in the NFL Von Miller can still take over a game and tilt the field Our linebackers fully healthy are awesome Benford has played at a borderline all pro level We have another all pro in Johnson The safety position is mixed with veteran's and youth And we have maybe the best 3rd down rb in the NFL There is a reason we are awesome 😎 😅 You forgot Ty Johnson who had a way above average year as a 3rd down back specialist. 1 Quote
Beck Water Posted January 4 Posted January 4 21 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen said: Possibly the best oline in the NFL A te room that is top 5 and future star in Kincaid A young Kamara in cook A possible future Brandon Marshall in Coleman A legitimate number one and perennial pro bowl wr in Cooper The next Andre Reed in Shakir Hollins is extremely underrated Samuel healthy is important as we saw how good he was vs KC Ray Davis would be rb1 on many rosters and reminds me of more instinctive, slightly faster Travis Henry Rousseau has been one of the most dominant dlineman in the NFL this year. He reminds me of Charles Mann or Sean Jones Oliver is one of the most explosive 3techs in the NFL Von Miller can still take over a game and tilt the field Our linebackers fully healthy are awesome Benford has played at a borderline all pro level We have another all pro in Johnson The safety position is mixed with veteran's and youth And we have maybe the best 3rd down rb in the NFL There is a reason we are awesome 😎 I like your optimistic viewpoint. All of the guys you mention have potential. But Kamara had over 1500 yds from scrimmage 3 of his first 4 years in the league (the year he didn't, he had 1300 yds in 14 games Kincaid may be a future star but this season he has 3.4 receptions and 34.5 ypg, which is currently #20 for TE receiving, well short of "star" territory Coleman may be a possible future Brandon Marshall but right now his 2 receptions and 44 YPG are better than Marshall's rookie year, but well short of what Marshall produced in his prime I could go on, but the point is - while I love your optimism, it doesn't match the reality of how our guys have been producing Meanwhile, the Ravens have a rusher who is actually producing at a 110+ YPG level in Henry, a 1000+ yd 2nd year receiver in Zay Flowers, and near or at the top of the league in receiver separation. 3 Quote
BananaB Posted January 4 Posted January 4 35 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen said: Possibly the best oline in the NFL A te room that is top 5 and future star in Kincaid A young Kamara in cook A possible future Brandon Marshall in Coleman A legitimate number one and perennial pro bowl wr in Cooper The next Andre Reed in Shakir Hollins is extremely underrated Samuel healthy is important as we saw how good he was vs KC Ray Davis would be rb1 on many rosters and reminds me of more instinctive, slightly faster Travis Henry Rousseau has been one of the most dominant dlineman in the NFL this year. He reminds me of Charles Mann or Sean Jones Oliver is one of the most explosive 3techs in the NFL Von Miller can still take over a game and tilt the field Our linebackers fully healthy are awesome Benford has played at a borderline all pro level We have another all pro in Johnson The safety position is mixed with veteran's and youth And we have maybe the best 3rd down rb in the NFL There is a reason we are awesome 😎 Is this a ***** joke 1 Quote
Kelly to Allen Posted January 4 Posted January 4 3 minutes ago, Beck Water said: I like your optimistic viewpoint. All of the guys you mention have potential. But Kamara had over 1500 yds from scrimmage 3 of his first 4 years in the league (the year he didn't, he had 1300 yds in 14 games Kincaid may be a future star but this season he has 3.4 receptions and 34.5 ypg, which is currently #20 for TE receiving, well short of "star" territory Coleman may be a possible future Brandon Marshall but right now his 2 receptions and 44 YPG are better than Marshall's rookie year, but well short of what Marshall produced in his prime I could go on, but the point is - while I love your optimism, it doesn't match the reality of how our guys have been producing Meanwhile, the Ravens have a rusher who is actually producing at a 110+ YPG level in Henry, a 1000+ yd 2nd year receiver in Zay Flowers, and near or at the top of the league in receiver separation. We'll see in the playoffs I think buffalo is going to annihilate whoever they play in the first two rds Just now, BananaB said: Is this a ***** joke We are going to set a record for most wins in bills history and already set the record for tds and points in bills history We beat KC by two scores and destroyed the lions. That game wasn't as close as the final score. And we had a few guys missing plus Milano shaking off the rust Quote
Beck Water Posted January 4 Posted January 4 (edited) 17 minutes ago, BananaB said: Is this a ***** joke No, he's just an optimist. We had them even during the Drought Years. Now I'm the one who says "Not Enough Wine"** **the optimist says the glass of wine is half full. the pessimist says the glass of wine is half empty. the engineer says "excess glass was used for the wine container". I say "not enough wine in the glass" Edited January 4 by Beck Water Quote
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 4 Posted January 4 22 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen said: We'll see in the playoffs I think buffalo is going to annihilate whoever they play in the first two rds We are going to set a record for most wins in bills history and already set the record for tds and points in bills history We beat KC by two scores and destroyed the lions. That game wasn't as close as the final score. And we had a few guys missing plus Milano shaking off the rust Thank you!!! This is why the MVP conversation is so dumb. Allen is possibly the best player in the nfl right now but people want to act like he is carrying bums. The Bills have and are a top 5 organization/ talented team in the nfl. Stop putting the rest of the team down. it’s the nfk. No player Carries a team. Every mvp candidate benefits from good players around them. 1 Quote
GoBills808 Posted January 4 Posted January 4 2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Thank you!!! This is why the MVP conversation is so dumb. Allen is possibly the best player in the nfl right now but people want to act like he is carrying bums. The Bills have and are a top 5 organization/ talented team in the nfl. Stop putting the rest of the team down. it’s the nfk. No player Carries a team. Every mvp candidate benefits from good players around them. Who on our roster skill position wise would start over their ravens counterpart? Quote
VW82 Posted January 4 Posted January 4 (edited) i said some of this earlier itt but the most interesting case against Allen (because at this point he's the overwhelming favourite) is production based. Total (passing + rushing) yards / TD / TOV: Lamar 4807 yards / 43 TD / 11 TOV Josh 4262 yards / 40 TD / 8 TOV Jackson has a few more turnovers but also has been responsible for producing more offense. That should count for something, especially when you look at rate stats like yards per play where Lamar is both throwing 8.9 Y/A and running 6.6 Y/A for more than Josh, 7.3 and 5.2 respectively. Lamar is not only doing more but achieving it more efficiently with the exception of the turnovers. Traditional advanced stats like passer rating and ANY/A back that up. Josh does have the fancy advanced stats on his side like EPA and WPA, but I think the reason why "weapons" is such a hotly contested topic is because it really helps Josh's MVP case if we can say that. We need to say that because Derrick Henry isn't included in the above analysis. Josh is the MVP because he was the better player this year, and this btw is something publicly available stats that look at these things just aren't good enough to accurately determine today. Maybe some day in the future they will. But pro-Lamar arguments will continue and I think they'll look like something I laid out here. Edited January 4 by VW82 Quote
julian Posted January 4 Posted January 4 7 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Thank you!!! This is why the MVP conversation is so dumb. Allen is possibly the best player in the nfl right now but people want to act like he is carrying bums. The Bills have and are a top 5 organization/ talented team in the nfl. Stop putting the rest of the team down. it’s the nfk. No player Carries a team. Every mvp candidate benefits from good players around them. This is not a top 5 roster … it’s a big reason, amongst many why Allen will win his 1st MVP. Quote
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 4 Posted January 4 1 minute ago, GoBills808 said: Who on our roster skill position wise would start over their ravens counterpart? Thanks for proving my point. We have had arguably the best o line in the NFL. Cook isn’t Henry but he has produced as top 5 rb the last 2 years (he outgained Henry in 2023). The gain between Flowers and Shakir isn’t that big and Cooper has 1,300 yards and is top in current receiving yards. The only major gap is TE where we have a first rounder and a guy who has had some productive seasons. We have good players surrounding a great one. Stop putting them down to give Allen his props. He’s going to win the MVP anyways. 1 Quote
GoBills808 Posted January 4 Posted January 4 1 minute ago, VW82 said: i said some of this earlier itt but the most interesting case against Allen (because at this point he's the overwhelming favourite) is production based. Total (passing + rushing) yards / TD / TOV: Lamar 4807 yards / 43 TD / 11 TOV Josh 4262 yards / 40 TD / 8 TOV Jackson has a few more turnovers but also has been responsible for producing more offense. That should count for something, especially when you look at rate stats like yards per play where Lamar is throwing 8.9 Y/A and running 6.6 Y/A vs. 7.3 and 5.2 respectively for Josh. Lamar is not only doing more but achieving it more efficiently with the exception of the turnovers. Traditional advanced stats like passer rating and ANY/A back that up. Josh does have the fancy advanced stats on his side like EPA and WPA, but I think the reason why "weapons" is such a hotly contested topic is because it really helps Josh's MVP case if we can say that. We need to say that because Derrick Henry isn't included in the above analysis. Josh is the MVP because he was the better player this year, and this btw is something publicly available stats that look at these things just aren't good enough to accurately determine today. Maybe some day in the future they will. But pro-Lamar arguments will continue and I think they'll look like something I laid out here. Passer rating an advanced stat😂😂 1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Thanks for proving my point. We have had arguably the best o line in the NFL. Cook isn’t Henry but he has produced as top 5 rb the last 2 years (he outgained Henry in 2023). The gain between Flowers and Shakir isn’t that big and Cooper has 1,300 yards and is top in current receiving yards. The only major gap is TE where we have a first rounder and a guy who has had some productive seasons. We have good players surrounding a great one. Stop putting them down to give Allen his props. He’s going to win the MVP anyways. Lol relax I'm not putting anyone down. Nobody is trading the bills offensive roster for the Ravens. It's not a knock it's just the way it is Quote
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 4 Posted January 4 1 minute ago, julian said: This is not a top 5 roster … it’s a big reason, amongst many why Allen will win his 1st MVP. Top 5 (at worst) oline top 5 rb a top 5 wr current leader in receiving yards maybe the most underrated wr in the league nfl a 2nd round rookie wr who has has good moments a former 1st round TE a head coach with a .662% and has made the playoffs every year except Allen’s rookie year. again, Allen will win the MVP but these is a very good to potentially great franchise who helped a wild guy from Wyoming grow into a MVP. The Buffalo Bills are a top 5 nfl franchise 4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Passer rating an advanced stat😂😂 Lol relax I'm not putting anyone down. Nobody is trading the bills offensive roster for the Ravens. It's not a knock it's just the way it is I’m beyond relaxed. I think Allen and Jackson are both awesome QBs who help elevate good to great talent around them. the Ravens and Bills are top 5 nfl franchises who helped Allen and Jackson grow into the players they are. The team you get drafted to matters as we see with the Jets and Panthers. 1 1 Quote
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 4 Posted January 4 8 minutes ago, julian said: This is not a top 5 roster … it’s a big reason, amongst many why Allen will win his 1st MVP. Who said it wasn’t a top 5 roster? Dorks who don’t follow the bills? Because we lost a bunch of washed up defensive vets? the biggest point of why I thought Allen would win MVP is because the story line of losing Diggs to national media. I think Diggs was a loss but plenty of smart Bills fans pointed out they weren’t really using him in the second half of the year anyways and Shakir was emerging. and since I have $100 on the Bills winning the SB, I was always confident in how overhyped our losses were especially after we got Cooper Quote
GoBills808 Posted January 4 Posted January 4 4 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Top 5 (at worst) oline top 5 rb a top 5 wr current leader in receiving yards maybe the most underrated wr in the league nfl a 2nd round rookie wr who has has good moments a former 1st round TE a head coach with a .662% and has made the playoffs every year except Allen’s rookie year. again, Allen will win the MVP but these is a very good to potentially great franchise who helped a wild guy from Wyoming grow into a MVP. The Buffalo Bills are a top 5 nfl franchise I’m beyond relaxed. I think Allen and Jackson are both awesome QBs who help elevate good to great talent around them. the Ravens and Bills are top 5 nfl franchises who helped Allen and Jackson grow into the players they are. The team you get drafted to matters as we see with the Jets and Panthers. The ravens were what 4 years removed from a SB win and a bunch of playoff success when Lamar was drafted? You're saying that's an equivalent situation to the franchise that Allen stepped into? Quote
Kelly to Allen Posted January 4 Posted January 4 (edited) 23 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Thank you!!! This is why the MVP conversation is so dumb. Allen is possibly the best player in the nfl right now but people want to act like he is carrying bums. The Bills have and are a top 5 organization/ talented team in the nfl. Stop putting the rest of the team down. it’s the nfk. No player Carries a team. Every mvp candidate benefits from good players around them. It's definitely weird. Allen can be MVP while acknowledging the talent actually upgraded from last year. The size and athletic ability at wr improved drastically. Kincaid is going to be a legitimate star imo. Cook is versatile and has skills similar to Kamara. I loved Ray Davis in the draft, thought he was rb1 in the draft and only dropped a couple RDS because he was 24. The defense fully healthy is much better than the seasons total sum of numbers. Cole Bishop is a rookie and has had some struggles but his athletic ability is light years ahead of anything at safety in the past couple years. The cb room is stacked Maybe phili or KC could be argued as slightly better but IDK. KC has only lost to buffalo in like their last 22 games lol 3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: The ravens were what 4 years removed from a SB win and a bunch of playoff success when Lamar was drafted? You're saying that's an equivalent situation to the franchise that Allen stepped into? He's saying now I think Edited January 4 by Kelly to Allen Quote
HappyDays Posted January 4 Posted January 4 14 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Cooper has 1,300 yards and is top in current receiving yards ? Quote
Kelly to Allen Posted January 4 Posted January 4 16 minutes ago, julian said: This is not a top 5 roster … it’s a big reason, amongst many why Allen will win his 1st MVP. You're just wrong dude. It's quite possibly the best team since the 90 team. We set a record for points and, two borderline all pro tackles lol. They tied a record for 30 point games. This is with a few games in hand and playing ball control in the second half They have the second highest point differential in the NFL. They're basically tied for second in SRS and dvoa. They destroyed the number one SRS in Detroit on the road 3 minutes ago, HappyDays said: ? Last year for Cleveland 8 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Who said it wasn’t a top 5 roster? Dorks who don’t follow the bills? Because we lost a bunch of washed up defensive vets? the biggest point of why I thought Allen would win MVP is because the story line of losing Diggs to national media. I think Diggs was a loss but plenty of smart Bills fans pointed out they weren’t really using him in the second half of the year anyways and Shakir was emerging. and since I have $100 on the Bills winning the SB, I was always confident in how overhyped our losses were especially after we got Cooper Exactly, Shakir at this point in his career is better than diggs and much more explosive/ dangerous Quote
davefan66 Posted January 4 Posted January 4 NFL network. Steve Wyche says “does it hurt Josh playing in the weak AFC East?” Listen. If any of you talking head DB’s actually watched Josh play. Actually dug into the stats. Actually DID YOUR JOBS! You’d see Josh fits the description of MVP. Most Valuable Player. He elevated everyone around him. He is the glue of this team. He has made the largest number of athletic and amazing plays this season. He has brought his team to the brink on his amazing play! Do your homework and y’all know he is MVP!! Stop saying Lamar is MVP when he has Henry. Stop saying Burrow who’s team has won bupkus. That being said, Josh will lose the MVP race. Seems the talking heads are piling on the Lamar train. Buttheads. 1 Quote
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