MVP hype for Allen

[Kelly to Allen]

12 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

And all of those gaudy stats have resulted in what? 

 

You could argue Lamar's win last year, but he was the QB of the team with the best record in the league that featured who outside of him?   His first MVP was an easy choice.  He won't win it this year unless Allen collapses, but I'm sure fans will still find reasons to complain. "It's should have ben unanimous."  I can see it now.

 

Josh has simply been unfortunate to live during an era of Mahomes, the end of Rodger's prime and Lamar, but he'll win it this year in all likelihood.

 

When you ask "what have those stats resulted in"

 

I don't understand what you are implying 

 

Can you elaborate. 

 

I'm responding to your claim that there is no real disrespect yet I just pointed out some bizzare award decisions. 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

It's pretty common to sometimes root for people that look like you.  Representation is important.  It's why Eminem is #1 selling rapper of all time.  This isn't news.  

 

Oh no, Allen lost a playoff game because of poor coaching and defense.  Aaron Rodgers knows this pain all took well.  He dealt with it for the majority of his prime years. 

 

Can you illuminate on that 10 point performance Allen put up in the divisional round?  

 

You can be a fan without being a blind loyalist.  Josh is not above criticism and without a Super Bowl ring in these next few years, he's going to be closer to that Marino category.  

 

Allen wasn't good vs the Bengals in the playoffs. He also had a seriously compromised elbow. Let's be intellectually honest...

 

This is like saying magic was never injured in the 89 NBA finals or that the chiefs oline wasn't severely compromised in the super bowl vs Tampa etc.

 

Let's be honest 

 

But even with Allen's poor performance vs the Bengals, he's still off to arguably the second greatest statistical start by a QB in NFL history. Only mahomes or arguably Warner/Rodgers has been better, and Warner/ Rodgers were  older QBs with more experience when they started 

Edited December 28, 2024 by Kelly to Allen

[Chicken Boo]

14 minutes ago, H2o said:

JA17 had 44 total TD's to Lamar's 29. INT'S or no INT'S, Josh was clearly better. He also closed out winning 6 of 7 games, leading the Bills to their 4th straight AFCE title and the #2 seed.

 

The same idiots last year who were claiming "it's not all about the stats" are the idiots this year saying "this award should be based on the stats, and Lamar's are better Josh Allen's." Let's all shed a tear and light a candle for the injustice of it all if Lamar doesn't win. Josh will only get it because people don't want to vote for the same guy all the time, not because he's deserving. It's ridiculous. 

 

Lamar's team had the best record in football.  Look at that roster and tell me who he had helping him.  

 

I love how you already have the next whine fest cued up when Allen wins.  

 

It's like nothing makes you guys happy.  It's weird.

 

Mark my words, there will be a thread full of complaining AFTER Josh wins.  People are going to be mad that voters dare cast for anyone not named Josh Allen.  Watch.

10 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen said:

Ppl truly forget how great Rodgers was in his prime. It was unreal.

 

I've said it before, his playoff game in 2010 vs the falcons is the greatest QB performance I've ever seen. 

 

Rodgers is the best QB I've ever seen.  The accuracy, ball placement, quick release, velocity on his throws and he was mobile.  He had it all.  

Edited December 28, 2024 by Chicken Boo

[Kelly to Allen]

5 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Lamar's team had the best record in football.  Look at that roster and tell me who he had helping him.  

 

I love how you already have the next whine fest cued up when Allen wins.  

 

It's like nothing makes you guys happy.  It's weird.

 

Mark my words, there will be a thread full of complaining AFTER Josh wins.  People are going to be mad that voters dare cast for anyone not named Josh Allen.  Watch.

 

Rodgers is the best QB I've ever seen.  The accuracy, ball placement, quick release, velocity on his throws and he was mobile.  He had it all.  

Before we assume that bills fans complain about Allen not being a unanimous MVP, can we get Nick wright to say Allen should be in the pro bowl? 

 

One can only wonder if a prominent media member or executive said Lamar shouldn't be in the pro bowl this year....

 

Will there be similar outrage towards Nick wright as there was towards Polian???

Edited December 28, 2024 by Kelly to Allen

[Chicken Boo]

7 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen said:

 

When you ask "what have those stats resulted in"

 

I don't understand what you are implying 

 

Can you elaborate. 

 

I'm responding to your claim that there is no real disrespect yet I just pointed out some bizzare award decisions. 

 

 

 

Allen wasn't good vs the Bengals in the playoffs. He also had a seriously compromised elbow. Let's be intellectually honest...

 

This is like saying magic was never injured in the 89 NBA finals or that the chiefs oline wasn't severely compromised in the super bowl vs Tampa etc.

 

Let's be honest 

 

But even with Allen's poor performance vs the Bengals, he's still off to arguably the second greatest statistical start by a QB in NFL history. Only mahomes or arguably Warner/Rodgers has been better, and Warner/ Rodgers were  older QBs with more experience when they started 

 

Don't mistake it.  We're debating, but just splitting hairs here. 

 

Allen is phenomenal!  So is Mahomes, Burrow, Lamar and *Rodgers (until the achilles).

 

I'm saying that Josh's gaudy stats actually work against him if they don't result in Lombardis.  It's the truth.

 

The gift and the curse.  

Just now, Kelly to Allen said:

Before we assume that bills fans complain about Allen not being a unanimous MVP, can we get Nick wright to say Allen should be in the pro bowl? 

 

One can only wonder if a prominent media member or executive said Lamar shouldn't be in the pro bowl 

 

Will there be similar outrage towards Nick wright as there was towards Polian???

 

All Pro >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pro Bowl

 

The same Nick Wright who thinks LeBron is greater than Michael Jordan?  He's just there for entertainment.

[Kelly to Allen]

10 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Don't mistake it.  We're debating, but just splitting hairs here. 

 

Allen is phenomenal!  So is Mahomes, Burrow, Lamar and *Rodgers (until the achilles).

 

I'm saying that Josh's gaudy stats actually work against him if they don't result in Lombardis.  It's the truth.

 

The gift and the curse.  

 

Okay but why is that standard not being applied to Lamar or hurts ? Why did the MVP goal posts shift from last year to this year?

 

Ppl have a serious problem if Lamar has 3 MVPs and Allen has zero in this era 

 

Ppl have a serious problem with hurts getting an all pro over Allen in 22

 

Lamar making the pro bowl over Allen in 21???

 

It's not cool man. 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 28, 2024 by Kelly to Allen

[Big Blitz]

7 hours ago, zow2 said:

Lamar's last 3 games against the Giants, Steelers and Houston have been excellent, 

 

 

 

None of these teams should be considered a serious football team at the moment.  
 

He completed 10 passes against a Houston team that got shutout at home in a 2024 NFL game.  
 

They always beat Pittsburgh in Baltimore.

 

 

 

Edited December 28, 2024 by Big Blitz

[H2o]

27 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Lamar's team had the best record in football.  Look at that roster and tell me who he had helping him.  

 

I love how you already have the next whine fest cued up when Allen wins.  

 

It's like nothing makes you guys happy.  It's weird.

 

Mark my words, there will be a thread full of complaining AFTER Josh wins.  People are going to be mad that voters dare cast for anyone not named Josh Allen.  Watch. 

I actually don't have a problem with either of them winning it. If you go further back in this thread, you will see where I said Lamar's 39/4 is pretty amazing.  

 

I'm not going into a whine fest, my guy, I'm summarizing what the RC was saying. Talking about how if Josh wins, it's like Charles Barkley's MVP. Saying everyone knew Jordan was the best player, but Barkley's MVP was basically 2nd rate. Like Lamar should have gotten the award, but people won't vote for him just for the fact they don't want to pick the same guy all the time. Then bringing the whole race aspect into it. These same clowns also keep changing their criteria year in and year out to justify "their guy" every time. 

 

My problem, and what I called out, was the racial bias of a bunch of the hacks at ESPN. Clark, Cam, Canty, Foxworth, and others. It's also bred out of envy in some instances, especially with Cam because Josh is breaking all of his records. 

 

Both are deserving of the award, no matter who wins. Two of the top teams and both have excellent numbers. But Josh is forever carrying this team and has clearly done more this year, with less than others have at their disposal and in spite of a defense that has failed this year for the most part. 

[Kelly to Allen]

55 minutes ago, H2o said:

JA17 had 44 total TD's to Lamar's 29. INT'S or no INT'S, Josh was clearly better. He also closed out winning 6 of 7 games, leading the Bills to their 4th straight AFCE title and the #2 seed.

 

The same idiots last year who were claiming "it's not all about the stats" are the idiots this year saying "this award should be based on the stats, and Lamar's are better Josh Allen's." Let's all shed a tear and light a candle for the injustice of it all if Lamar doesn't win. Josh will only get it because people don't want to vote for the same guy all the time, not because he's deserving. It's ridiculous. 

It's a moot point with ints.

 

Warner won MVP with 22 int and 26 total turnovers 

 

There's precedent for a good amount of turnovers and still winning MVP with other QBs. That's not why Allen didn't get the award 

[SCBills]

53 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

It's pretty common to sometimes root for people that look like you.  Representation is important.  It's why Eminem is #1 selling rapper of all time.  This isn't news.  

 

Oh no, Allen lost a playoff game because of poor coaching and defense.  Aaron Rodgers knows this pain all took well.  He dealt with it for the majority of his prime years. 

 

Can you illuminate on that 10 point performance Allen put up in the divisional round?  

 

You can be a fan without being a blind loyalist.  Josh is not above criticism and without a Super Bowl ring in these next few years, he's going to be closer to that Marino category.  

Allen had a bad game against CIN in the Playoffs.  Agreed.

 

He also outplayed Mahomes the year before and the year after, only to be let down by Defense and Coaching.  Both games would have sent him to AFC Championship Games, which you decided are to be used as a measuring stick. 

[Big Blitz]

Derek Henry has rushed for 1800 yards in 16 games - this is because of Jackson you see.  
 

Not bc Henry is a HOF RB.  Jackson has elevated this RB to numbers he’s never seen before:

 

Henry rushed for 1500 yards just 22 months ago.  
 

Henry rushed for 2000 yards in 2020.  

 

 

James Cook has rushed for 928 yards this season.  I think Cook has become a solid RB is it fair to ask if he produces like this (5.1 ypc) on any other team? 
 

Our leading WR has 700 plus yards.  Number 2 has 498 yards.  
 

The Ravens leader has over 1000 and 2 others over 600 yards.  

 

So tell me again who has done more for their team or done more with less.  
 

 

Edited December 28, 2024 by Big Blitz

[BullBuchanan]

Looked to me like Lamar made a really strong case this past week that Allen likely won't be able to top because he's playing bottom of the NFL teams, while Baltimore just wrecked two division leaders. Maybe they give the nod to Allen anyway, but if recency is at all relevant, Jackson has a stronger case, especially with Allen struggling last week.

[Doc Brown]

2 hours ago, UKBillFan said:

 

How can he say Josh would be a 'worthy' MVP when he's already sneeringly dismissed it as a Charles Barkley result?

He wants to keep his job.

3 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

Rodgers is the best QB I've ever seen.  The accuracy, ball placement, quick release, velocity on his throws and he was mobile.  He had it all.  

Yup.  Not a great leader imo though.

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

Looked to me like Lamar made a really strong case this past week that Allen likely won't be able to top because he's playing bottom of the NFL teams, while Baltimore just wrecked two division leaders. Maybe they give the nod to Allen anyway, but if recency is at all relevant, Jackson has a stronger case, especially with Allen struggling last week.

Josh has lost all 3 games to playoff teams. Lamar has lost to 2 of the worst teams in the NFL, Raiders & Browns.  Spin that one voters.

Edited December 28, 2024 by LABILLBACKER

[Scott7975]

9 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

Here is the thing tho and why I say Henry is the MVP of the Ravens.

 

Ravens face some of the highest percentage of 8 man boxes in the NFL. Why? To stop Henry.

 

Why do they choose to stop Henry? Because they know if they do, Lamar is unlikely to be able to beat them on his own and will struggle.

 

Lamar is 2-5 when Henry has under 90 yards. His 2 wins were against the Giants and Bengals.

 

He lost to the Raiders and Browns who are a combined 3-24 against the rest of the NFL.

 

Those heavy boxes put Lamar in very favorable passing matchups which lead to a lot of college wide open receivers. Essentially he is throwing to people in wide open spaces more than anyone else, similar to Tua last year. 

 

If you watched both Steeler games it essentially tells you the entire story in a nutshell.

 

In the first game, the Steelers held Henry in check, didn't even score a TD and still won because Lamar couldn't overcome the lack of run support. In the second game, Henry runs wild and lo and behold, Lamar looks good(albeit with 3/4 of the Steelers secondary being out, but whatever).  That is the story. Shut Henry down and Lamar is unlikely to beat you.

 

Or as I like to say, Lamar will turn into La"mew".

 

Do teams go out of their way to shut Cook down? No...why? Because Allen can easily do what he did against the Rams and go sicko mode anyway with 6 TDs and 425 yards of offense by himself when Cook had 6 carries for 20 yards.

 

That's the difference. There are different levels to this most don't understand or take into consideration.

 

Without hesitation, every DC is trying to stop Allen with the Bills. Most DCs are first trying to stop Henry with the Ravens, not Lamar.

 

They talk about this stuff here...

 

 

Its actually a good conversation. Of all the sports talk table media stuff this is probably one of my favorite shows.

[Scott7975]

9 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

Lamar's team had the best record in football.  Look at that roster and tell me who he had helping him.  

 

Im sure having a defense that allowed 16.2 ppg helps.  He had the same Zay Flowers, Mark Andrews, and Rashod Bateman that he has now.

[strive_for_five_guy]

8 hours ago, Kelly to Allen said:

It's a moot point with ints.

 

Warner won MVP with 22 int and 26 total turnovers 

 

There's precedent for a good amount of turnovers and still winning MVP with other QBs. That's not why Allen didn't get the award 

Exactly.  The big difference is that Kurt Warner was 14-2 that season, whereas Josh squeaked into the playoffs at 11-6.  Lamar’s record was a key reason he won MVP last year.  And since Josh beat the other two 1 seeds this year and hopefully after tomorrow has this team at 13-3, is one key reason I believe Josh will get voted in as MVP this year.

[Kangaxx]

If Josh doesn't win MVP this year, I think I'll have stop watching the NFL next year. It would be clear that the award is meritless and susceptible to social pressures along with the large baltimore ravens media contingent. I also had my suspicions last year about the same issues. 

[Chicken Boo]

9 hours ago, Kelly to Allen said:

 

Okay but why is that standard not being applied to Lamar or hurts ? Why did the MVP goal posts shift from last year to this year?

 

Ppl have a serious problem if Lamar has 3 MVPs and Allen has zero in this era 

 

Ppl have a serious problem with hurts getting an all pro over Allen in 22

 

Lamar making the pro bowl over Allen in 21???

 

It's not cool man. 

 

 

 

 

 

Nobody cares about the Pro Bowl.  

 

Lamar doesn't have 3 MVPs.

 

Josh was robbed of all-pro in 2022.  It happens.  He isn't the first and he won't be the last.

[UKBillFan]

3 minutes ago, Kangaxx said:

If Josh doesn't win MVP this year, I think I'll have stop watching the NFL next year. It would be clear that the award is meritless and susceptible to social pressures along with the large baltimore ravens media contingent. I also had my suspicions last year about the same issues. 

 

I know I said it before but it's what will stick in my craw the most - if Lamar wins it this year, fine. I'd understand why. He's played lights out. I can go down the route of individual EPA, separation v accuracy, the roster around each QB, who is more valuable to their team but I'd get it. It would hurt as a Bills fan but I can see the argument for Lamar.

 

Last year was team record pure and simple. Josh's record was 44 total TDs and 22 turnovers to Lamar's 29/13. Fifteen more TDs to 9 more turnovers. Then, stats didn't matter. To 49-1, which was a ridiculous result to reward someone MVP who had a, quite frankly, mediocre season. Last year still bugs me more and will bug me more than this year, even if Jackson is awarded it again.

[Chicken Boo]

9 hours ago, H2o said:

I actually don't have a problem with either of them winning it. If you go further back in this thread, you will see where I said Lamar's 39/4 is pretty amazing.  

 

I'm not going into a whine fest, my guy, I'm summarizing what the RC was saying. Talking about how if Josh wins, it's like Charles Barkley's MVP. Saying everyone knew Jordan was the best player, but Barkley's MVP was basically 2nd rate. Like Lamar should have gotten the award, but people won't vote for him just for the fact they don't want to pick the same guy all the time. Then bringing the whole race aspect into it. These same clowns also keep changing their criteria year in and year out to justify "their guy" every time. 

 

My problem, and what I called out, was the racial bias of a bunch of the hacks at ESPN. Clark, Cam, Canty, Foxworth, and others. It's also bred out of envy in some instances, especially with Cam because Josh is breaking all of his records. 

 

Both are deserving of the award, no matter who wins. Two of the top teams and both have excellent numbers. But Josh is forever carrying this team and has clearly done more this year, with less than others have at their disposal and in spite of a defense that has failed this year for the most part. 

 

Fair enough, but I don't understand why so many care what these pundits think?  They have a right to their opinion just like everyone else.  

 

I did not follow this entire thread, so apologies for not seeing your praise for Lamar.  If Baltimore had a comparable record, he'd likely win because the numbers are off the charts.  

 

Both he and Allen are in similar situations.  Dynamite lead backs, decent receivers and porous defenses.  

40 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Im sure having a defense that allowed 16.2 ppg helps.  He had the same Zay Flowers, Mark Andrews, and Rashod Bateman that he has now.

 

Zay, the rookie, Mark Andrews who missed 7 games and Bateman.  Bateman could have gone without mentioning.  

 

That's a 4 win team without Jackson, at best.