MVP hype for Allen

[Big Turk]

3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

BS. How many qbs have a 14-1 record missing their top 2 WRs, top rb, and their OT situation? Their defense is vastly improved but very few qbs are functioning in that offense. It’s been a garbage group most of the year. Like last year. And yet, Mahomes just keeps winning. 
 

Mahomes is in the Brady winning every year stage. Join with garbage around you and coast through the regular season. Stats don’t matter anymore. Just winning.

 

When you can score under 23 points in 7 games and go 6-1 in them, that says your defense is winning you a lot of games. That doesn't happen to most teams. At BEST, a team might go 4-3 in those games.

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

 

It would be a major loss. But they still won games even with Tyler Huntley at QB. They would be a 8-9 or 9-8 team without Jackson most likely.

 

Without Allen the Bills would be drafting in the top 5.

 

That's the difference.

 

 

Huntley was 3-6 as a Ravens starter. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HuntTy01.htm
 

Matt Barkley had by far the best game of his career in a spot start for Allen. Does that mean he would be ok starting for a bunch of games? It’s insane. 
 

Also, and again Allenis the MVP, why are we pretending like an offense with a top 5 o line, Cook (top 5 rb), Cooper, Shakir, Kincaid (hurt a lot this year) is garbage?

 

this is exactly why the MVP conversation is dumb. You have to put down other great players and their value and/ or your candidate’s teammates. Allen should be the MVP, especially because of the narrative (which is a huge part).  But actually like Jackson isn’t a top 5 qb who takes the Ravens to a different level or the Bills are like the Pats talent wise is silly. 

[Alphadawg7]

Josh deserves the MVP.  

 

BUT...The offense struggling at home against a 3 win Pats team while Lamar sailed past Houston again has put the MVP in real question again for Josh after ending the Lions game as the overwhelming heavy favorite.

 

Josh was awful against both Balt and Houston (historically awful against Houston)...Balt just steam rolled Houston.  So Lamar now has steam rolling the Bills and steam rolling the other team Josh was terrible against on his MVP resume to go along with admittedly gaudy stats.  

 

If Josh doesn't steam roll the Jets this week, I think he may lose a close vote to Lamar.  I say that because odds are we will see Josh either sit out the final week all together or maybe just play a quarter or a half as we will have nothing to play for.  

 

So lets hope for a big week from Josh and the offense because he deserves the MVP

[Big Turk]

Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

Huntley was 3-6 as a Ravens starter. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HuntTy01.htm
 

Matt Barkley had by far the best game of his career in a spot start for Allen. Does that mean he would be ok starting for a bunch of games? It’s insane. 
 

Also, and again Allenis the MVP, why are we pretending like an offense with a top 5 o line, Cook (top 5 rb), Cooper, Shakir, Kincaid (hurt a lot this year) is garbage?

 

this is exactly why the MVP conversation is dumb. You have to put down other great players and their value and/ or your candidate’s teammates. Allen should be the MVP, especially because of the narrative (which is a huge part).  But actually like Jackson isn’t a top 5 qb who takes the Ravens to a different level or the Bills are like the Pats talent wise is silly. 

 

Derrick Henry versus James Cook isn't even a conversation...and I love Cook.

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

 

When you can score under 23 points in 7 games and go 6-1 in them, that says your defense is winning you a lot of games. That doesn't happen to most teams. At BEST, a team might go 4-3 in those games.

Yet, they happen with Mahomes. Weird how guys like Mahomes and Brady always get lucky. 
 

put it this way, if Allen and the Bills are coming off their 3rd straight SB and looking to win 3 straight and are 14-1, I won’t have a care in the world.  Straight cruise control. 

[Big Turk]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Josh deserves the MVP.  

 

BUT...The offense struggling at home against a 3 win Pats team while Lamar sailed past Houston again has put the MVP in real question again for Josh after ending the Lions game as the overwhelming heavy favorite.

 

Josh was awful against both Balt and Houston (historically awful against Houston)...Balt just steam rolled Houston.  So Lamar now has steam rolling the Bills and steam rolling the other team Josh was terrible against on his MVP resume to go along with admittedly gaudy stats.  

 

If Josh doesn't steam roll the Jets this week, I think he may lose a close vote to Lamar.  I say that because odds are we will see Josh either sit out the final week all together or maybe just play a quarter or a half as we will have nothing to play for.  

 

So lets hope for a big week from Josh and the offense because he deserves the MVP

 

Going to be a warm, rainy, windy day on Sunday...

 

High of 55 with an 80% chance of rain up to a half inch and winds 10-20 mph with higher gusts.

 

Not ideal for throwing the ball.

Edited 16 hours ago by Big Turk

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Josh deserves the MVP.  

 

BUT...The offense struggling at home against a 3 win Pats team while Lamar sailed past Houston again has put the MVP in real question again for Josh after ending the Lions game as the overwhelming heavy favorite.

 

Josh was awful against both Balt and Houston (historically awful against Houston)...Balt just steam rolled Houston.  So Lamar now has steam rolling the Bills and steam rolling the other team Josh was terrible against on his MVP resume to go along with admittedly gaudy stats.  

 

If Josh doesn't steam roll the Jets this week, I think he may lose a close vote to Lamar.  I say that because odds are we will see Josh either sit out the final week all together or maybe just play a quarter or a half as we will have nothing to play for.  

 

So lets hope for a big week from Josh and the offense because he deserves the MVP

Thank you for a rational take. However win Lamar won his 2 MVP last year (which was warranted because his team murdered the regular season and he didn’t stat pad), he isn’t going to win this year. Even with better numbers and if somehow they got the number 2 seed. 
 

it makes for good debate but MVP is about story line. Lamar isn’t getting 3 without winning a SB. And also the regular season MVP rarely wins the SB, so I don’t know why we care so much anyways. 

[Kelly to Allen]

36 minutes ago, Goin Breakdown said:

When do we know?  Isn't it the week

before the SB?  Last year I remember someone saying that voting happens a lot earlier though. Not sure how true that is. 

It's two days before the super bowl. 

[C.Biscuit97]

4 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Derrick Henry versus James Cook isn't even a conversation...and I love Cook.

Fun fact, James Cook had more total yards than Henry last year. I’m not going to say Cook is better than Henry but Henry was looked at as a declining rb who was turning 30.  Lamar helped him as much as he helped Lamar. It is a perfect marriage. Just like Cook is a very good rb for us (and they still don’t give him enough touches!). 

[DapperCam]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

Josh deserves the MVP.  

 

BUT...The offense struggling at home against a 3 win Pats team while Lamar sailed past Houston again has put the MVP in real question again for Josh after ending the Lions game as the overwhelming heavy favorite.

 

Josh was awful against both Balt and Houston (historically awful against Houston)...Balt just steam rolled Houston.  So Lamar now has steam rolling the Bills and steam rolling the other team Josh was terrible against on his MVP resume to go along with admittedly gaudy stats.  

 

If Josh doesn't steam roll the Jets this week, I think he may lose a close vote to Lamar.  I say that because odds are we will see Josh either sit out the final week all together or maybe just play a quarter or a half as we will have nothing to play for.  

 

So lets hope for a big week from Josh and the offense because he deserves the MVP

How was Allen historically awful against Houston? Was it his YPA or completion percentage or something? This was the "Mack Hollins #1 WR" game, and Allen still had 185 total yards, 1 TD, 0 turnovers and led 4 scoring drives. He played within himself when literally nothing was going right. Didn't end up being enough to win, but for another example Goff had a MUCH worse game vs the Texans than Allen did.

For some perspective, if Allen got the same defensive performance Lamar got then the Bills would have won by three scores.

[Kelly to Allen]

14 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

BS. How many qbs have a 14-1 record missing their top 2 WRs, top rb, and their OT situation? Their defense is vastly improved but very few qbs are functioning in that offense. It’s been a garbage group most of the year. Like last year. And yet, Mahomes just keeps winning. 
 

Mahomes is in the Brady winning every year stage. Join with garbage around you and coast through the regular season. Stats don’t matter anymore. Just winning.

Trent dilfer went 10-1 or something in 2000. 

 

Mahomes was very meh in the first half of the year. KC defense has been excellent the past two years. And was instrumental in the playoffs last year. 

 

It's why I'm picking buffalo to destroy everyone in the playoffs. Allen was really the only QB to put up 30 on them in a long time and did it with a b- c+ game 

[Alphadawg7]

7 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Thank you for a rational take. However win Lamar won his 2 MVP last year (which was warranted because his team murdered the regular season and he didn’t stat pad), he isn’t going to win this year. Even with better numbers and if somehow they got the number 2 seed. 
 

it makes for good debate but MVP is about story line. Lamar isn’t getting 3 without winning a SB. And also the regular season MVP rarely wins the SB, so I don’t know why we care so much anyways. 

 

I hope you are right, because Josh deserves it...he also had a pretty strong case last year for it too.

 

2 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

How was Allen historically awful against Houston? Was it his YPA or completion percentage or something? This was the "Mack Hollins #1 WR" game, and Allen still had 185 total yards, 1 TD, 0 turnovers and led 4 scoring drives. He played within himself when literally nothing was going right. Didn't end up being enough to win, but for another example Goff had a MUCH worse game vs the Texans than Allen did.

For some perspective, if Allen got the same defensive performance Lamar got then the Bills would have won by three scores.

 

If I am not mistaken, he set the NFL record for lowest completion % in a game (based on what ever min attempts the qualifiers was for).  And it was his worst game maybe of his career.  

Edited 16 hours ago by Alphadawg7

[BillytheKid]

The MVP race is pretty much over though. All the YouTube and ESPN channels can talk about it for views as much as they want.
 

Even after Lamar’s game yesterday Vegas still has Allen as a -250 favorite and Allen hasn’t played yet this week.
 

As long as he doesn’t do anything stupid those odds will go back up. Right now his implied odds are that Allen has over a 71% chance of winning it. Lamar is only at 35%.
 

If Josh plays well then those odds go back up to -400 or -500 then he will be at an over 80% chance to win the award.
 

So it really isn’t as close as the talking heads are making it out to be. That is if you know anything about how odds work. 
 

Only way Allen would lose it is if he goes out and has a couple of turnovers and plays like he did last week agains the Pats.  Other than that it is Allen’s to lose. 

[C.Biscuit97]

10 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

6 out of the past 7 games the Ravens defense has played excellent (the one outlier being that crazy Bengals shoot out). I haven't checked (mostly because I don't know how), but they must be a top 5 scoring defense in that time span. I think the "Ravens have a bad defense" narrative should be put away, it hasn't been true for almost 2 months.

If you take out our defense’s worst 3 games, we give up 17.5 points/ game. Kinda silly to do that though. 

[DapperCam]

8 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

He set the NFL record for lowest completion % in a game

Ah I see, the exact stat is "Josh Allen recorded the lowest completion percentage (30.0%) in a game with at least 30 pass attempts in the last 30 seasons". Kind of cherry picked for what felt like just a regular bad game to me. A turnover or sack is much worse than an incompletion (as can be seen by Stroud letting us get back in that game with his turnovers). There are actually a bunch of players with a lower completion percentage, just less than 30 attempts. (source: https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/worst-completion-percentage-nfl-history-in-one-game-by-qb-min-20-pass-attempts)

Edited 16 hours ago by DapperCam

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I hope you are right, because Josh deserves it...he also had a pretty strong case last year for it too.

 

 

If I am not mistaken, he set the NFL record for lowest completion % in a game (based on what ever min attempts the qualifiers was for).  

See I think it should have been Lamar’s CMC, or a defensive players. The Ravens were a historically good regular season, who blew out good teams, and didn’t stat pad in second halves. 
 

it’s why I though Allen would win it with “worse” stats. The no Diggs narrative was going to be huge. Mahomes and Jackson were going to be a long shots because they have multiple ones. Only major candidate would have been Burrow, who is playing Qb as well as anyone but I guess it’s his fault his defense sucks I guess. 
 

MVPs debates are so dumb but they are engaging. 😂 bills fans care more about this than Allen does. 

[DapperCam]

3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

If you take out our defense’s worst 3 games, we give up 17.5 points/ game. Kinda silly to do that though. 

It's not silly if it's a trend. Baltimore's defense was bad for the first chunk of the season and then has been playing a lot better since then (for about half the season). The narrative shouldn't be that they have a bad defense, because they don't. They just shut out a playoff team on the road for crying out loud.

[Kelly to Allen]

21 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Huntley was 3-6 as a Ravens starter. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HuntTy01.htm
 

Matt Barkley had by far the best game of his career in a spot start for Allen. Does that mean he would be ok starting for a bunch of games? It’s insane. 
 

Also, and again Allenis the MVP, why are we pretending like an offense with a top 5 o line, Cook (top 5 rb), Cooper, Shakir, Kincaid (hurt a lot this year) is garbage?

 

this is exactly why the MVP conversation is dumb. You have to put down other great players and their value and/ or your candidate’s teammates. Allen should be the MVP, especially because of the narrative (which is a huge part).  But actually like Jackson isn’t a top 5 qb who takes the Ravens to a different level or the Bills are like the Pats talent wise is silly. 

 

If Jackson is/was truly a top 5 QB, we would've seen it in the playoffs by now... 

 

The media has decided he is so I guess we'll see in the playoffs in year 7 

Edited 16 hours ago by Kelly to Allen

[C.Biscuit97]

2 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

It's not silly if it's a trend. Baltimore's defense was bad for the first chunk of the season and then has been playing a lot better since then (for about half the season). The narrative shouldn't be that they have a bad defense, because they don't. They just shut out a playoff team on the road for crying out loud.

Well using your trend logic, Houston’s offense has been trending the wrong way. And the Ravens defense gave uo the most points the Raiders have all season and the second most the Browns scored all year? 
 

what would the MVP conversation be if Ravens didn’t have the two most unbelievable losses in the whole season? 
 

spoiler alert, it would be the same because LAmar is not going to win it again until he wins a SB. 

4 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen said:

 

If Jackson is/was truly a top 5 QB, we would've seen it in the playoffs by now... 

 

The media has decided he is so I guess we'll see in the playoffs in year 7 

Lamar is 27. Manning didn’t win his first SB until 30. Kelly had more ints than tds in the postseason and went to 4 SBs. 
 

if Lamar wins a SB, he goes into the conversation for all time qbs. Same with Allen. Both are very young and a ton can change even in a few months. If you don’t think Lamar is a top 5 qb, you’re just being a hater at this point. 

[Kelly to Allen]

11 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Well using your trend logic, Houston’s offense has been trending the wrong way. And the Ravens defense gave uo the most points the Raiders have all season and the second most the Browns scored all year? 
 

what would the MVP conversation be if Ravens didn’t have the two most unbelievable losses in the whole season? 
 

spoiler alert, it would be the same because LAmar is not going to win it again until he wins a SB. 

Lamar is 27. Manning didn’t win his first SB until 30. Kelly had more ints than tds in the postseason and went to 4 SBs. 
 

if Lamar wins a SB, he goes into the conversation for all time qbs. Same with Allen. Both are very young and a ton can change even in a few months. If you don’t think Lamar is a top 5 qb, you’re just being a hater at this point. 

Peyton Manning was almost perfect and had two all time playoff performances as a passer in 2003. Peyton Manning had nothing to prove as a passer within a traditional offense by year 2. Lamar is still answering these questions. 

 

It's also completely ridiculous to bring up Peyton Manning because Manning is probably the greatest passing QB of all time in the regular season. I don't even put Allen in his tier yet. Allen may never get there...One could argue Peyton Manning might be the greatest ever. Stop the silliness 

 

Lamar is in year 7 and has been terrible in the playoffs, especially as a passer and is still looking for his first 4000 yd passing season. He's still RPO dependent. 

 

The best you can say about Lamar is he has been a really good dual threat QB in a RPO/ zone read foundation that has stalled out in the playoffs. He has improved enough as a passer playing within structure that he could break through. That's what he is right now 

 

 

Edited 16 hours ago by Kelly to Allen