MVP hype for Allen

[Ralonzo]

11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

The Houston game was Josh's one clunker. Especially the first half of the game where he was bad. But that is basically the only game all season where you come away saying "Josh Allen has gotta play better." He threw a bad pick in the Colts game and he had a stinker first half in Houston. That is the list of legit criticisms of Josh Allen this season. 

 

I'm still on record that it was the game plan. Reviewing it Josh did what he always does when nothing was there, extend, drift, extend. The problem was in that game, even the scramble drills the receivers were all plastered, he had easily double-digit throwaways/dirtballs to avoid sacks/negative plays. There was nothing to work with, but the narrative was like he was completely missing wide open receivers. Still almost won the game, and with some proper game management this season the Bills may well be #1 in the conference right now with wins in Houston and LA.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Ralonzo said:

 

I'm still on record that it was the game plan. Reviewing it Josh did what he always does when nothing was there, extend, drift, extend. The problem was in that game, even the scramble drills the receivers were all plastered, he had easily double-digit throwaways/dirtballs to avoid sacks/negative plays. There was nothing to work with, but the narrative was like he was completely missing wide open receivers. Still almost won the game, and with some proper game management this season the Bills may well be #1 in the conference right now with wins in Houston and LA.

 

I don't think it was. Yes, we were missing receivers that day but Josh never got in rhythm and missed throws you gotta make. He sorted himself out after half time, but that first half was a clunker and was on him (and Cole Bishop who gave up the two touchdowns by being in the wrong gap in run D and then giving up the big pass play).

[Solomon Grundy]

THANK YOU MAD DOG ON FIRST TAKE!! You can't criticize Josh for not getting to Super Bowl. Josh played GREAT against Mahomes in both playoff games to only lose because of coaching and missed FG. 

[strive_for_five_guy]

38 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

Can Barkley even break the rushing record period. He has 1688 yards in 14 games. That is 315 yards short of OJ's 2003 yards in 1973. Even Eric Dickerson doesn't have the record. IMHO to break the rushing record an RB would have to rush for 2004 yards and do it in 14 games. 

I mean, Barkley is on pace for 2,050 yards, and the record is 2,105.  And he plays against three horrible run defenses these last three weeks.  So could definitely seem him still doing it.

 

That said, even if he breaks the record

at this point, I don’t think that’s as impressive as what Josh is doing.  Would be pretty annoyed with any voters that think just bc Barkley breaks the rushing record against crappy run defenses and in 17 games, that makes him the MVP.  Even Dickerson wasn’t MVP in the year he set the rushing record.

 

Edit:

Sorry bro, just re-read what you’re saying though.  Totally get your point about defining the rushing record on that per game basis, in which case OJ’s numbers are arguably the REAL record.  That’s a great point.

Edited Wednesday at 03:57 PM by strive_for_five_guy

[Cash]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

tbh, if the NFL media could go back and give Josh the MVP last year and Lamar the MVP this year, I think they would

 

I actually don't.  I think the voters as a group want the winning QB* to have great numbers on a great team.  We can debate whether that should be the criteria or not, but even if it shouldn't be, it still is.  In the current streak of all-QB winners, every winner has been on a 1 or 2 seed.  Only one of them had 5 losses (Matt Ryan), and most had 3 or fewer.  Now granted, we were the 2 seed last year, but the Ravens indisputably had a better regular season than we did, and that factored into the voting.  And I don't have time to look it up, but I imagine Allen's INT numbers last year would've been extremely high for a modern MVP.  I imagine you'd have to go back to the 60s or 70s to find an MVP who threw more than 15 picks.  Maybe just the 80s, but that was still a different game back then.

 

*The rare times a non-QB wins it, it's usually a running back who did something really special, and voters seem to have different criteria for different positions.  But when comparing QB to QB, they've shown that team success factors in.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 hour ago, Ralonzo said:

 

I'm still on record that it was the game plan. Reviewing it Josh did what he always does when nothing was there, extend, drift, extend. The problem was in that game, even the scramble drills the receivers were all plastered, he had easily double-digit throwaways/dirtballs to avoid sacks/negative plays. There was nothing to work with, but the narrative was like he was completely missing wide open receivers. Still almost won the game, and with some proper game management this season the Bills may well be #1 in the conference right now with wins in Houston and LA.

Yea I think it was a mix of both…he missed some throws but it could’ve come down partially to guys not bein exactly where he expected in extended play situations 

 

that third down play to force ot to a wide open Samuel looked like a straight up miss and that was a biggie…I’m sure there were others..  even with the tough coverage I’m sure he could’ve played better but I don’t think it was quite as bad as the stat sheet looked 

[FireChans]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Maybe. Not sure the QB of an 11-6 team who threw whatever it was... 18 or 19 picks.... was ever getting MVP last year. And I'm not sure he would even in retrospect. 

I don't think it was the picks that did it, it was the narrative of the Bills are in disarray and the firing of the OC.

 

Switch around the results of the 2 Pats games and the Broncos/Chargers games, Bills enter the bye at 8-4, finish winning 3 of their last 5, including, beating KC, winning the division and the 2 seed on the biggest game of week 18 and I think Allen runs away with it.

 

That may be one of the worst explanations ever I have tried to make, but I felt like the circumstances of the team held back Allen's case far more than his stats did.

Edited Wednesday at 05:29 PM by FireChans

[zow2]

There are plenty of media heavily in Josh Allen's corner for MVP,,, Acho, Greeny, Orlovsky, Chase Daniel, Rex, etc.

 

Josh was the overwhelming MVP favorite going into the Detroit weekend... and everyone wanted to see him have another big game worthy of MVP status, and a WIN to solidify his standing.  He overperformed on everything and got the win.  Yet somehow, after a nice game over the hapless Giants,  all I'm hearing this week is Lamar is very much alive and based on his stats should be MVP.  They are really arguing that on some of the shows this week. Am I missing something?  Why all this push to get Lamar his 3rd?  He's having a great season, better numbers certainly than last year.  But overall,  when you add everything up  (Bills record, who they beat, 11-  30+ point games, etc..)  how is this a conversation?    I can only assume this MVP talk is for show content and you can't have everyone agree on Allen.  That would make for a boring national show.

[strive_for_five_guy]

22 minutes ago, zow2 said:

There are plenty of media heavily in Josh Allen's corner for MVP,,, Acho, Greeny, Orlovsky, Chase Daniel, Rex, etc.

 

Josh was the overwhelming MVP favorite going into the Detroit weekend... and everyone wanted to see him have another big game worthy of MVP status, and a WIN to solidify his standing.  He overperformed on everything and got the win.  Yet somehow, after a nice game over the hapless Giants,  all I'm hearing this week is Lamar is very much alive and based on his stats should be MVP.  They are really arguing that on some of the shows this week. Am I missing something?  Why all this push to get Lamar his 3rd?  He's having a great season, better numbers certainly than last year.  But overall,  when you add everything up  (Bills record, who they beat, 11-  30+ point games, etc..)  how is this a conversation?    I can only assume this MVP talk is for show content and you can't have everyone agree on Allen.  That would make for a boring national show.

I think they’re doing just for conversation sake.  Acho and Orlovsky both actually have votes, so always interested in hearing their takes.

[stevewin]

There seems to be a slight shift on the shows I've seen in the last couple days where some talking heads are trying to insert Lamar back in the conversation.  I'm sure some/most of it is in the production meeting them saying "OK who's going to do the dissenting Lamar for MVP take"

 

Jeff Saturday's "if Saquon beats the record he's lock for MVP" is just silly - I guess he pulled the Saquon card in the production meeting

 

To me it all comes down to the voters themselves and how many will make the 'correct' choice - and how many might try to get cute and take one of the 'other' options just to be different

[Boatdrinks]

There has been a growing consensus over the last month that Josh Allen has made his case for MVP. I’m talking about amongst actual MVP voters. The Lions game seems to have cemented that. Sure, there needs to be discussion on talk shows for entertainment value. However, in past years it seems the voters move almost in lockstep with just a few dissenters. This means much more in the end than talk show fodder. Longtime NFL writers such as Armando Salguero have joined in almost universal praise of Allen. This is why I believe Allen has locked in his first MVP award. 

[billieve420]

Narrative can quickly change with a Bills loss in the next 3 games. Allen will just have to be solid in terms of stats and he wins award as long as they win the remainder of the games on the schedule. If KC wins the next 2 then obviously the Bills rest the starters the final game. A loss and it re-opens door for Lamar and Barkley to come in and steal award.

[hondo in seattle]

2 hours ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

I mean, Barkley is on pace for 2,050 yards, and the record is 2,105.  And he plays against three horrible run defenses these last three weeks.  So could definitely seem him still doing it.

 

That said, even if he breaks the record

at this point, I don’t think that’s as impressive as what Josh is doing.  Would be pretty annoyed with any voters that think just bc Barkley breaks the rushing record against crappy run defenses and in 17 games, that makes him the MVP.  Even Dickerson wasn’t MVP in the year he set the rushing record.

 

Edit:

Sorry bro, just re-read what you’re saying though.  Totally get your point about defining the rushing record on that per game basis, in which case OJ’s numbers are arguably the REAL record.  That’s a great point.

 

OJ didn't win MVP in 1975 when he averaged 130 yards per game and led the NFL in scoring despite playing against 1970 era defenses that were designed to stop the run with brawny RB-eating LBers and man-mountain DEs.  

 

Why should Barkely get MVP for averaging 123 yards per game in a league where the base defense is 4-2, LBers are agile coverage guys, and DEs are finesse QB chasing edges with ballerina spin moves?

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 06:35 PM by hondo in seattle

[zow2]

Totally agree that Allen has this, but man the dissenters are out in force this week.  You'd think Josh played the Giants last Sunday and Lamar hung 5 TD's at Detroit.

 

Makes me a little nervous when you compare it to the Heisman last weekend.  A week ago, the betting odds for Travis Hunter was -2500 , while Ashton Jeanty was +1000.  In the end Hunter won it but it was the closest Heisman race since 2009.  Hunter was first with 2,231 points and Jeanty had 2,017.   It was so much closer than the oddsmakers had it.

 

 

 

 

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

41 minutes ago, zow2 said:

Totally agree that Allen has this, but man the dissenters are out in force this week.  You'd think Josh played the Giants last Sunday and Lamar hung 5 TD's at Detroit.

 

Makes me a little nervous when you compare it to the Heisman last weekend.  A week ago, the betting odds for Travis Hunter was -2500 , while Ashton Jeanty was +1000.  In the end Hunter won it but it was the closest Heisman race since 2009.  Hunter was first with 2,231 points and Jeanty had 2,017.   It was so much closer than the oddsmakers had it.

 

 

 

 

Is it just me or do the Ravens big completions always seem to have guys running wide open. At least 3 of his 4 TDS looked similar to this in openness. This is why the eyeball test matters and not just boxscore analysis. Giants suck too! The one to Justice Hill had the entire side of the field vacant.

Edited Wednesday at 07:29 PM by D. L. Hot-Flamethrower

[DCofNC]

22 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

This is the stuff I don’t get. Why is it a thing between Josh and Lamar? They both are great in their own right. Josh was doubted a ton (hand up). Well, Lamar was told to switch positions after winning a Heisman trophy.  They both are awesome. 
 

Allen should win but Lamar is having an awesome year in his own right. 

It’s not really Lamar the I despise it’s the Baltimore fans who refuse to admit he’s not a top tier passer and want to claim he’s better than JA because of the MVP awards.  Yet, the statistics (and eye test of any rational human) says JA was/is better than the MVP each time he won.  So this year, the media is off Lamar because the Ravens aren’t front running and he actually has stats to back him for once.  I just appreciate the change in script.   
 

Also, I’ve noticed those same idiots seem to have dropped the “Allen is nothing without Diggs” 😂 

[DCofNC]

18 hours ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

Is it just me or do the Ravens big completions always seem to have guys running wide open. At least 3 of his 4 TDS looked similar to this in openness. This is why the eyeball test matters and not just boxscore analysis. Giants suck too! The one to Justice Hill had the entire side of the field vacant.

E V E R Y time.  Lamar completes more wide open passes than you will ever see in the NFL, by anyone else.  To his credit though, they are wide open because of his legs scaring coordinators.  There’s always a spy on him and that means the D is playing short handed, once it breaks down it’s really over.

[Big Turk]

 

[DapperCam]

18 hours ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

Is it just me or do the Ravens big completions always seem to have guys running wide open. At least 3 of his 4 TDS looked similar to this in openness. This is why the eyeball test matters and not just boxscore analysis. Giants suck too! The one to Justice Hill had the entire side of the field vacant.

You aren’t wrong at all. Lamar Jackson has three throws.
 

- Short dump off near the line of scrimmage.

- Wide open dude, usually on a crosser. I’m guessing this is their man-coverage beater and Lamar knows when it will be there because it’s very consistent.

- Throw it up for grabs when the DB has his back turned. That one is usually incomplete, but Likely and Andrews especially are good at grabbing the ball.

 

All three of these throws are very low risk for an interception, which is why his totals are always so low. The number of “college wide open” throws he has are kind of baffling to me, so props to his OC for that.

[SCBills]

Ravens Twitter easily the most toxic fanbase on X. 
 

Chiefs Kingdom is annoying, but Ravens fans are legit angry… all the time.