MVP hype for Allen

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

3 minutes ago, Buftex said:

That is pretty much all sports commentary is these days...

Fair point.

[Cash]

7 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

Even if Barkley breaks the record it would be absurd to suggest he is more valuable than Allen when the Eagles were a few minutes from winning the SB 2 years ago without him and then 10-0 at one point last year without him.  How can you be that valuable to a team that's already very, very good without you?  Plus he is running back.  The value compared between RB and QB is not even a discussion.

 

 

Personally I agree, I’m just trying to look at worst case scenarios (or best case scenarios from Saquon’s perspective). Adrian Peterson’s win was a while ago, but not ancient history. And that win totally broke the mold I mentioned in my last post. If Saquon rattles off a 300-yard game or scores 6 TDs, AND breaks the Dickerson record? I could see the narrative shifting. (TBH, even in that scenario I’d probably still put my money on Allen but it wouldn’t be a lock.)

[strive_for_five_guy]

1 hour ago, Cash said:

Personally I agree, I’m just trying to look at worst case scenarios (or best case scenarios from Saquon’s perspective). Adrian Peterson’s win was a while ago, but not ancient history. And that win totally broke the mold I mentioned in my last post. If Saquon rattles off a 300-yard game or scores 6 TDs, AND breaks the Dickerson record? I could see the narrative shifting. (TBH, even in that scenario I’d probably still put my money on Allen but it wouldn’t be a lock.)

The thing I’d forgotten with AP’s season was his QB.  It was Christian Ponder.  Meanwhile, Saquon obviously has Hurts and even AJ Brown to take the heat off of him.  I’ve heard even the media generally recognize the talent around Barkley.  I’d been concerned if Barkley breaks the rushing record that he’d still the MVP from Josh, but I think the Bills would also have to finish worse than the 2 seed now too.  Josh would have to give reasons to lose it now, AND Barkley break the rushing record.  
 

If we just beat the Pats this weekend, it’s almost a lock then that we’re the 2 seed or better.  And by the time we play the Jests, we’ll know if we have a shot at the 1 seed still or not.  If at some point it’s clear we’ll be the 2 seed with no chance to get the 1, McD would be smart to sit Josh, at which point Josh’s case will rest.  If we’re able to actually land the 1 seed, that just further solidifies his case.

[Big Blitz]

 

[Utah John]

9 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

You have to look at when they beat or lost to a team, where the game was played and what kind of football they were playing.  Take the loss to the LA Rams.  Doesn't look great losing to an 8 - 6 team but the Rams have gone 7 - 2 in their last 9 games.  They are playing great football.  And the Bills wins over those two top teams happened when they were 9 - 0 and 12 - 1.  If this were college football those two wins alone would be rated as "elite".

 

 

Yep, those are good points about looking at how well the opposing teams were playing at the time.  I wish the schedule had turned out to be tougher for the Bills because the way they've been playing the last two months they could beat anyone, and this would make the discussion about "who have they played?" less valid.

[Dan Darragh]

11 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

Even if Barkley breaks the record it would be absurd to suggest he is more valuable than Allen when the Eagles were a few minutes from winning the SB 2 years ago without him and then 10-0 at one point last year without him.  How can you be that valuable to a team that's already very, very good without you?  Plus he is running back.  The value compared between RB and QB is not even a discussion.

 

 

A-Rod won the MVP when his Texas Rangers finished in last place.  Think where they'd have been without him!

[zow2]

It's just silly that Jeff Saturday and whoever else on ESPN says the MVP race is still open?  I mean cmon.  Lamar is not getting it again.  He will probably finish with better stats but he's not getting MVP for a 3rd time with a team that was the #1 seed last season and was projected to be very good again.  The Bills were projected to be 2nd or 3rd in the AFC East by many.  Allen has elevated them to a point we could not have foreseen, with guys.   He's just come off a 4-game stretch of NFL feats we have rarely seen?!?   Barkley is having a great season but as others have noted, the Eagles were a very good rushing team last season.   Barkley has not elevated an already good Eagles team beyond what Allen has done for the Bills.  A RB has less than half the amount of touches as a QB and prob half the amount of impact on a team's season....that's why QB's always win MVP's.  

 

MVP is over,, just like it was for Lamar last season with a couple games to go.  If Allen plays conservative over the final 3 or even sits a lot of minutes it's still his time.

[strive_for_five_guy]

6 hours ago, zow2 said:

It's just silly that Jeff Saturday and whoever else on ESPN says the MVP race is still open?  I mean cmon.  Lamar is not getting it again.  He will probably finish with better stats but he's not getting MVP for a 3rd time with a team that was the #1 seed last season and was projected to be very good again.  The Bills were projected to be 2nd or 3rd in the AFC East by many.  Allen has elevated them to a point we could not have foreseen, with guys.   He's just come off a 4-game stretch of NFL feats we have rarely seen?!?   Barkley is having a great season but as others have noted, the Eagles were a very good rushing team last season.   Barkley has not elevated an already good Eagles team beyond what Allen has done for the Bills.  A RB has less than half the amount of touches as a QB and prob half the amount of impact on a team's season....that's why QB's always win MVP's.  

 

MVP is over,, just like it was for Lamar last season with a couple games to go.  If Allen plays conservative over the final 3 or even sits a lot of minutes it's still his time.

Yea, just saw this.  Greeny’s opening about Josh is really good though.  Some of these guys have to be getting told to offer the contrarian view, just for the sake of discussion.

 

 

[Kelly to Allen]

15 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

 

He's been the best QB in the NFL since 21. 

[DCofNC]

I’m going to drive to Baltimore to collect the tears of Lamar supporters if Josh wins.  
 

BTW, Josh is the leader and the ironic part is, for the first time ever, Lamar ACTUALLY has the stats to win.  Lamar has better stats in virtually every meaningful category, aside from a few more sacks and less rushing TDs, but he has more passing TDs to make up for it.   If it were all about stats Lamar should be leading, thankfully the narrative seems to be in JAs corner for once.

Edited Tuesday at 09:36 PM by DCofNC

[C.Biscuit97]

On 12/17/2024 at 12:38 AM, Big Blitz said:

 

Cowherd said the same thing about Mahomes like 2 months ago. I agree with him on Allen but he is a joke. It’s wild that he makes so much money off being terrible. I’m jealous. 

[Gregg]

https://www.wivb.com/sports/buffalo-bills/stefon-diggs-endorses-josh-allen-for-mvp/amp/

[C.Biscuit97]

17 hours ago, DCofNC said:

I’m going to drive to Baltimore to collect the tears of Lamar supporters if Josh wins.  
 

BTW, Josh is the leader and the ironic part is, for the first time ever, Lamar ACTUALLY has the stats to win.  Lamar has better stats in virtually every meaningful category, aside from a few more sacks and less rushing TDs, but he has more passing TDs to make up for it.   If it were all about stats Lamar should be leading, thankfully the narrative seems to be in JAs corner for once.

This is the stuff I don’t get. Why is it a thing between Josh and Lamar? They both are great in their own right. Josh was doubted a ton (hand up). Well, Lamar was told to switch positions after winning a Heisman trophy.  They both are awesome. 
 

Allen should win but Lamar is having an awesome year in his own right. 

[GunnerBill]

On 12/16/2024 at 4:41 PM, Utah John said:

As a Bills fan part of my brain is always pessimistic, and asking what could go wrong.  In this case, it's the Bills' schedule.  Not impressive.  Sure they beat the top team in each conference, that's really great, but look at the rest:

 

Cardinals (W) currently 7-7

Dolphins (W) 6-8

Jags (W) 3-11

Ravens (L) 9-5

Texans (L) 9-5

Jets (W) 4-10

Titans (W) 3-11

Seahawks (W) 8-6

Dolphins (W) 6-8

Colts (W) 6-8

Chiefs (W) 13-1

49ers (W) 6-8

Rams (L) 8-6

Lions (W) 12-2

 

Teams currently above .500 are in bold.  Against them the Bills are 3-3, and in the losses it was only the Rams game where Josh played well.  In fact Josh's poor play (completing 9 out of 30 passes) was really the reason the Bills lost to the Texans.  That game was a wakeup for Josh.  He stopped trying to connect downfield all the time, and turned into smart and deadly Josh.

 

You can only play the teams on your schedule, and the Bills and Josh deserve great credit for winning all the games they've won.  Even mediocre teams have some good players and coaches.  But still, just 3-3 against teams with winning records is not impressive.

 

The Houston game was Josh's one clunker. Especially the first half of the game where he was bad. But that is basically the only game all season where you come away saying "Josh Allen has gotta play better." He threw a bad pick in the Colts game and he had a stinker first half in Houston. That is the list of legit criticisms of Josh Allen this season. 

6 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

This is the stuff I don’t get. Why is it a thing between Josh and Lamar? They both are great in their own right. Josh was doubted a ton (hand up). Well, Lamar was told to switch positions after winning a Heisman trophy.  They both are awesome. 
 

Allen should win but Lamar is having an awesome year in his own right. 

 

Lamar is arguably having his best year. I think everyone acknowledges last year the MVP race was messy. Nobody separated. Lamar's season last year would never normally win an MVP. His season this year normally would. But it isn't going to. Because he has coincided with Josh Allen playing the best football of his life. 

[FireChans]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Lamar's season last year would never normally win an MVP. His season this year normally would. But it isn't going to. Because he has coincided with Josh Allen playing the best football of his life. 

tbh, if the NFL media could go back and give Josh the MVP last year and Lamar the MVP this year, I think they would

[thronethinker]

Why on earth would breaking the rushing record in a 17 game season make Barkley a better MVP choice than Allen?

 

[Ralonzo]

Let's grab a random old post that called it

  

On 1/15/2022 at 11:37 PM, Nelius said:

Best QB in the NFL, seriously. There’s still a feeling like he hasn’t even realized his full potential yet, he’s almost there and we’re watching him in the process of growing into it. We all know his upside is beyond any QB in history and he might actually reach it, sooner than anybody thought. He’s going to get a ring. 

 

[Gregg]

1 minute ago, thronethinker said:

Why on earth would breaking the rushing record in a 17 game season make Barkley a better MVP choice than Allen?

 

 

Can Barkley even break the rushing record period. He has 1688 yards in 14 games. That is 315 yards short of OJ's 2003 yards in 1973. Even Eric Dickerson doesn't have the record. IMHO to break the rushing record an RB would have to rush for 2004 yards and do it in 14 games. 

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, FireChans said:

tbh, if the NFL media could go back and give Josh the MVP last year and Lamar the MVP this year, I think they would

 

Maybe. Not sure the QB of an 11-6 team who threw whatever it was... 18 or 19 picks.... was ever getting MVP last year. And I'm not sure he would even in retrospect. 

[thronethinker]

1 minute ago, Gregg said:

 

Can Barkley even break the rushing record period. He has 1688 yards in 14 games. That is 315 yards short of OJ's 2003 yards in 1973. Even Eric Dickerson doesn't have the record. IMHO to break the rushing record an RB would have to rush for 2004 yards and do it in 14 games. 

Exactly!! And to do it he would have to have the ball on almost every play like OJ did and then you become one dimensional with no passing attack. Not going to work in 2024 and it certainty means that a RB is not a real MVP candidate in a 17 game season.

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 03:21 PM by thronethinker