MVP hype for Allen

[BillsFan4]

Amazing article by Michael Silver on the athletic:

“Josh Allen making MVP case with run of play that has teammates in awe: ‘He’s mythical’ “

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5997141/2024/12/16/josh-allen-bills-lions-mythical-play/

 

Quote

And that’s not even doing him justice.

“He’s just got a special aura about him,” said Bills edge rusher Von Miller, a future Hall of Famer in his own right. “I’ve played with some great ones — (Matthew) Stafford, and of course Peyton (Manning) — and he is one of those guys. I’m witnessing something different right now, and I can’t put my finger on it.

“Let’s just say it’s a special moment in time.”

 

I found this part interesting

 

Quote

If Allen seems unencumbered — “Free,” as one Bills coach puts it — there’s a good reason for that. When the Bills traded star wideout Stefon Diggs to the Houston Texanslast April, it left them without a marquee receiver, but it made Allen’s workplace reality a lot smoother.

 

According to several Bills sources, the once close connection between Allen and Diggs began to fray late in the 2022 season. Diggs wanted to be targeted more frequently and chafed when Allen didn’t get him the ball. Allen, in turn, became frustrated by the receiver’s penchant for freelancing, believing he couldn’t count on Diggs to be where he was supposed to be on certain routes.

 

All of this led Allen, who some of those same Bills sources describe as a “pleaser,” to feel compelled to force the ball to Diggs. Allen also tried to make sure he delivered an ample amount of balls to Buffalo’s No. 2 receiver, Gabe Davis, with whom he was close. Davis signed with the Jacksonville Jaguars as a free agent last March.

 

Now, Allen simply goes through his reads and finds the open man — or, when no one’s open, uses his exceptional athleticism and improvisational ability to buy time until he finds someone open.

 

“Josh is soooo much more relaxed,” another Bills coach said. “Before, with all the drama, it was like he became exhausted.”

 

As a result, what was once Allen’s stigma — forcing the ball, being reckless and committing costly turnovers — has been all but erased. He has thrown just five interceptions in 14 games, with two lost fumbles.

 

 

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

On 12/11/2024 at 8:54 AM, 4merper4mer said:

Mina Kimes is an absolute moron.

One of my least favorite sports personalities.  Complete idiot.  And never forget her reaction to the Bills drafting Allen...

 

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

It’s interesting not many in the media are pushing for Lamar Jackson anymore. He’s having his best season. I think Baltimore will win the North as well.

 

I think it’s Allen’s turn and it’s already been determined. He deserves it, but so does Jackson. 

[Kelly to Allen]

Just now, Buffalo_Stampede said:

It’s interesting not many in the media are pushing for Lamar Jackson anymore. He’s having his best season. I think Baltimore will win the North as well.

 

I think it’s Allen’s turn and it’s already been determined. He deserves it, but so does Jackson. 

It's because of his playoff resume and eye test in the playoffs. 

 

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

30 minutes ago, Utah John said:

As a Bills fan part of my brain is always pessimistic, and asking what could go wrong.  In this case, it's the Bills' schedule.  Not impressive.  Sure they beat the top team in each conference, that's really great, but look at the rest:

 

Cardinals (W) currently 7-7

Dolphins (W) 6-8

Jags (W) 3-11

Ravens (L) 9-5

Texans (L) 9-5

Jets (W) 4-10

Titans (W) 3-11

Seahawks (W) 8-6

Dolphins (W) 6-8

Colts (W) 6-8

Chiefs (W) 13-1

49ers (W) 6-8

Rams (L) 8-6

Lions (W) 12-2

 

Teams currently above .500 are in bold.  Against them the Bills are 3-3, and in the losses it was only the Rams game where Josh played well.  In fact Josh's poor play (completing 9 out of 30 passes) was really the reason the Bills lost to the Texans.  That game was a wakeup for Josh.  He stopped trying to connect downfield all the time, and turned into smart and deadly Josh.

 

You can only play the teams on your schedule, and the Bills and Josh deserve great credit for winning all the games they've won.  Even mediocre teams have some good players and coaches.  But still, just 3-3 against teams with winning records is not impressive.

 

 

 

 

The ravens lost to the raiders and the browns and their record against good teams isn’t any better.  Eagles had a few weird losses and giving an MVP to a rb takes a ton.  Barkley is a shoe-in for offensive player of the year though 

 

i really can’t remember a team beating the best team in each conference in recent memory…no one’s gonna even care about those back to back tough games early in the season 

Edited December 16 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Process]

7 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

He kind of has the schedule going against him. That Steelers game is a brick wall, he play awful against that team. He puts up numbers like last week or at least in the ballpark and I'll at least concede He deserves being talked about in the discussion. But I'm betting he'll fall right out of this race even if he does manage to squeak by the Steelers.

I'm not saying that as in it's an easy schedule. He could easily play bad and lose those games. 

 

But he's such a big underdog that his only chance is winning and showing out in prime time. While the bills also stumble vs a bad team. 

 

The schedule is favorable for him because it at least gives him that opportunity. 

[Sweats]

51 minutes ago, US Egg said:

They never captured the imagination of the football world in the same manner as Allen.
 

They never commanded or had the on field presence Allen has.

 

 

 

I get it, man.......i really do, but to say that Bruce Smith never had the on-field presence as JA is just irresponsible and lazy.

 

Bruce single handedly struck fear into opposing QB's, all from a 3-4 DE front and in today's standards, that's absurd to even think about. He single handedly took over games, opposed his will on teams and made them pay.

The guy was constantly double teamed and even triple teamed and still made sacks.........think about that. There is no one into today's NFL who even comes close to who Bruce Smith was.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

4 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen said:

It's because of his playoff resume and eye test in the playoffs. 

 

 

Yea recency bias is a thing and he basically burned the voters twice with pretty bad playoff performances after they voted him mvp.  Also I think he’s seen as really good but elevated a bit by roster talent where Josh is seen as really really good and elevating roster talent

 

they also openly used ‘loss totals matter’ to disqualify Josh last year so it will be hard to justify giving it to a qb with 5+ losses now 

Edited December 16 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[C.Biscuit97]

10 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

The context hurts Lamar so badly…if there was zero past history he’d definitely still be in it.  Getting it rather unjustly last year then not doing much of anything against kc in the playoffs after a pretty bad playoff showing after his first mvp has to have the voters wanting to go a different way 

But this is why the mvp is kinda a bs award in the first place. I argued Lamar deserved it last year because they killed teams so he didn’t have to stat pad. They also gave Gus Edwards like 15 one yard td runs. It’s why I said Allen would win MVP this year even if he had worse numbers because he would get more credit because they didn’t have Diggs anymore. 
 

the Ravens defense is kinda bad this year. The Bengals have a terrible defense. It’s not Burrow’s fault they are losing and he’s playing qb as well as anyone. 
 

I know it makes for good discussion and Bills fans really want Allen to get it (and he will). But it’s a pretty subjective award. 

[billieve420]

Some people still not believers. Can't give any reason this final 3 games to give this any traction. Need to handle business these final 3 games.

 

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

But this is why the mvp is kinda a bs award in the first place. I argued Lamar deserved it last year because they killed teams so he didn’t have to stat pad. They also gave Gus Edwards like 15 one yard td runs. It’s why I said Allen would win MVP this year even if he had worse numbers because he would get more credit because they didn’t have Diggs anymore. 
 

the Ravens defense is kinda bad this year. The Bengals have a terrible defense. It’s not Burrow’s fault they are losing and he’s playing qb as well as anyone. 
 

I know it makes for good discussion and Bills fans really want Allen to get it (and he will). But it’s a pretty subjective award. 

Yea I don’t entirely disagree, I do think that burrow is in the ideal qb scenario to pump up stats though so losses kind of have to matter to some extent.  Look at what Josh has done the last few weeks when forced into shootouts he could’ve had a whole season of that if his defense was worse consistently 

 

I don’t think it’s supposed to be a stats only award it’s more of an eye test thing and josh had all that ‘the bills are done this season without Diggs’ talk from all these nfl analysts that are also the voters for the award lol without that Lamar is probably closer 

Edited December 16 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[strive_for_five_guy]

37 minutes ago, Utah John said:

As a Bills fan part of my brain is always pessimistic, and asking what could go wrong.  In this case, it's the Bills' schedule.  Not impressive.  Sure they beat the top team in each conference, that's really great, but look at the rest:

 

Cardinals (W) currently 7-7

Dolphins (W) 6-8

Jags (W) 3-11

Ravens (L) 9-5

Texans (L) 9-5

Jets (W) 4-10

Titans (W) 3-11

Seahawks (W) 8-6

Dolphins (W) 6-8

Colts (W) 6-8

Chiefs (W) 13-1

49ers (W) 6-8

Rams (L) 8-6

Lions (W) 12-2

 

Teams currently above .500 are in bold.  Against them the Bills are 3-3, and in the losses it was only the Rams game where Josh played well.  In fact Josh's poor play (completing 9 out of 30 passes) was really the reason the Bills lost to the Texans.  That game was a wakeup for Josh.  He stopped trying to connect downfield all the time, and turned into smart and deadly Josh.

 

You can only play the teams on your schedule, and the Bills and Josh deserve great credit for winning all the games they've won.  Even mediocre teams have some good players and coaches.  But still, just 3-3 against teams with winning records is not impressive.

 

 

 

 

You could make this argument against any other player in the league too.  Who has been more impressive than Allen, this season?  Some could claim Lamar, but he’s got 5 losses to Josh’s three, so by the argument you’ve laid out, that’s even less impressive, right?

 

The current 1 seeds have 3 losses all season, two of which are to the Bills.  And Josh is clearly playing at a level unforeseen in the NFL.  He would need a complete meltdown in these last three games to not win the MVP, regardless of what anyone else does.

[17islongenough]

How do you stop this?

 

 

[US Egg]

25 minutes ago, Sweats said:

I get it, man.......i really do, but to say that Bruce Smith never had the on-field presence as JA is just irresponsible and lazy.

 

Bruce single handedly struck fear into opposing QB's, all from a 3-4 DE front and in today's standards, that's absurd to even think about. He single handedly took over games, opposed his will on teams and made them pay.

The guy was constantly double teamed and even triple teamed and still made sacks.........think about that. There is no one into today's NFL who even comes close to who Bruce Smith was.

Agree that he makes a case as being a phenom, which was my point about Allen, not Allen is the all time greatest Bill….not yet, anyways. Smith was a consensus choice for greatness, which he exceeded. Allen not so, fact is he was significantly trashed with few expectations by many. To your point of me being irresponsible, ouch? 

 

Watching Allen is captivating unlike any Bills player. I don’t think it a stretch to say people solely tune in to watch him more than any Bills player ever. He displays a dynamic few have shown at the most crucial and scrutinized position in professional team sports.

 

I’ll stand by my phenom label.

[Sweats]

1 minute ago, US Egg said:

Agree that he makes a case as being a phenom, which was my point about Allen, not Allen is the all time greatest Bill….not yet, anyways. Smith was a consensus choice for greatness, which he exceeded. Allen not so, fact is he was significantly trashed with few expectations by many. To your point of me being irresponsible, ouch? 

 

Watching Allen is captivating unlike any Bills player. I don’t think it a stretch to say people solely tune in to watch him more than any Bills player ever. He displays a dynamic few have shown at the most crucial and scrutinized position in professional team sports.

 

I’ll stand by my phenom label.

 

 

 

Earlier i said that today and right now as it stands, i have Smith as the absolute Bills standard, but i do believe that JA will have that title before his career is finished.

 

I know for most of the country, people tune into to see what JA is going to do each week (us Bills fans already know what he can do), however, he still amazes everyone with his skill, his talent, his play, his improvisation, etc.

We are definitely witnessing something with JA that none of us could have ever known was coming.

 

He is a phenom and i don't discount that. I also believe that before his career is finished, he will absolutely go down as the best Bills player ever.

[Gregg]

[Cash]

2 hours ago, Logic said:

I get your point, but I respectfully disagree.

Josh Allen has been doubted, ridiculed, laughed at, and insulted his entire career. He has had to fight, claw, and scrap to get where he is. You all already know the story -- the no college offers, the 1,000 letters he wrote, the "if Josh Allen succeeds, he will have outsmarted basically all regular humans and the entirety of math itself" article, all of it -- so I won't go into more detail on it. But make no mistake: If we're talking about legacy, if we're talking about going down as an all-time great and a first ballot Hall of Famer, Josh Allen DOES need to win an MVP award. He absolutely does.

Not only does he need it for his legacy, but he deserves to win it. For the work he puts in, for the way he has transformed this franchise, for the way he lifts up an entire region, for all the good he does in the community. He deserves it.

Aside from needing the award to help cement his legacy, and deserving the award, I also just WANT him to win it. He's a good, kind, funny, genuine, selfless, awesome person and an All-World golden retriever lumberjack space alien with a howitzer for an arm, and *****, I want him to have an MVP on his resume. 

So yeah...I get it. It's all about a Lombardi. I'm sure Josh Allen would say the same thing, and I'm sure coach McDermott would say the same thing. But I, as a fan, don't have to say the same thing. I can admit it: I WANT JOSH ALLEN TO WIN THE MVP AWARD. I want it badly. 

Totally agree with this. One thing to add from my perspective: the Lombardi trophy is the most important, and what I want the most, but it’s not “the only thing that matters” like a lot of fans seem to think. This is, IMO, a loser mentality. Did these people turn off Talladega Nights after the first half hour and think they’d gotten the message? Just because something is most important doesn’t mean nothing else matters. 
 

I’m reminded of the Dodgers pitcher (Kershaw I think) who voluntarily left after throwing 6+ perfect innings. His postgame comments were along the lines of, “a perfect game would be cool, but it’s all about maximizing out chance at the title.” WRONG! Throwing a perfect game is way harder than winning a title and should be celebrated much higher when looking at individual players. 
 

Now, in this case, leading a team to victory in the Super Bowl is indeed better and more impressive than winning regular season MVP, but… not by that much. And more importantly, he can do both! I think every fan and employee of the Bills would never want Allen to play a meaningless game just to try to improve his MVP case, and that’s how it should be. But for some people to pretend that regular season MVP is worthless or irrelevant… if you really believed that, why bother watching the games?

 

So yeah, regardless of what happens in the postseason, I want Allen to win the MVP this year, and when it happens, I’ll celebrate with great joy. Wins are worth celebrating. 
 

 

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

38 minutes ago, billieve420 said:

Some people still not believers. Can't give any reason this final 3 games to give this any traction. Need to handle business these final 3 games.

 

 

I must have missed Richard Sherman's rant about "numbers matter" when Lamar won MVP last year.  I'm guessing they didn't matter as much in 2023.

[Mango]

43 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

But this is why the mvp is kinda a bs award in the first place. I argued Lamar deserved it last year because they killed teams so he didn’t have to stat pad. They also gave Gus Edwards like 15 one yard td runs. It’s why I said Allen would win MVP this year even if he had worse numbers because he would get more credit because they didn’t have Diggs anymore. 
 

the Ravens defense is kinda bad this year. The Bengals have a terrible defense. It’s not Burrow’s fault they are losing and he’s playing qb as well as anyone. 
 

I know it makes for good discussion and Bills fans really want Allen to get it (and he will). But it’s a pretty subjective award. 

 

IMO It is partially because of Derrick Henry. He is a sure fire hall of famer who will end the season as his second best rushing season of his career. Sorta a similar reason why its tough to call Jalen Hurts the MVP  when Saquan is the best player on the team right now. 

I don't disagree with you. Lamar is having a killer year. Better than Allen'? I don't know. But I think part of it is a correction on last years MVP, part of it is Derrick Henry taking some shine, and part of it is the idea that Josh Allen is due. 

[BigDingus]

1 hour ago, HereComesTheReignAgain said:

One of my least favorite sports personalities.  Complete idiot.  And never forget her reaction to the Bills drafting Allen...

 

 

 

 

Mina is awesome, and she's almost always championing Josh Allen. Every sports analyst will have bad takes throughout their career. Every person on this board has a TON of bad takes (myself included).

 

35 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

Anyone know what the record is for most total TDs in a given month? Allen has to be knocking on the door for December.

 

4 TDs vs the 49ers

6 TDs vs the Rams

4 TDs vs the Lions

 

And he's still got 2 more games to end the month.

Edited December 16 by BigDingus