Torrance vs Jones

[PoundingDog]

The Bills converted 9 out of 15 third downs Sunday, 7 of 9 conversions are 3rd and 7+ yards. Two of those 7 long conversions are by penalty. The other 6 failed conversions are all 3rd and long as well.

 

If you are the Chiefs defense, you can live with that because it is not normal to consistently do what Bills offense did.

 

If you are Joe Brady, first say a prayer for Josh playing the best football of his life thus far. But you gotta dig deep into it because it is NOT the world you want to live in - constantly in 3rd and 8 world. In fact I'll say this, if we see the Chiefs again in January, and you still have to Josh to convert 3rd and 7+ yards 10+ times, we will be in trouble.

[billsfan89]

11 minutes ago, PoundingDog said:

The Bills converted 9 out of 15 third downs Sunday, 7 of 9 conversions are 3rd and 7+ yards. Two of those 7 long conversions are by penalty. The other 6 failed conversions are all 3rd and long as well.

 

If you are the Chiefs defense, you can live with that because it is not normal to consistently do what Bills offense did.

 

If you are Joe Brady, first say a prayer for Josh playing the best football of his life thus far. But you gotta dig deep into it because it is NOT the world you want to live in - constantly in 3rd and 8 world. In fact I'll say this, if we see the Chiefs again in January, and you still have to Josh to convert 3rd and 7+ yards 10+ times, we will be in trouble.

 

While that's not that far off base you would also hope that if you are the Bills getting back Spencer Brown on the offensive line makes a difference in the ground game while getting Kincaid and Coleman back (while also having a more healthy Amari Cooper) leads to Joe Brady being able to open up the playbook more and attack the KC defense in different ways. 

 

Because with Kincaid and Coleman out and Cooper banged up the pass catching core was fairly depleted with Knox/Shakir/Samuel/Hollins being the primary core of healthy pass catchers. And while Knox/Shakir/Samuel/Hollins and a banged up Cooper isn't tragic it is still limiting as to how you can attack a very stout defense. 

[uticaclub]

6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

In 2022 Spencer Brown was playing at about the level Torrence has played this year.   Which seemed bad because more was expected after he played well for a rookie and even played a little LT in relief of Dawkins in 2021.   But Saffold had the worst season by an OL that I have ever seen as a Bills fan.  Colin Brown 2013 was about as bad but was mercy benched after 5 starts.  It wasn't a toss up who was worse, not by any means.  

You aren't wrong, I might just notice bad tackle play more than bad guard play. Either way the line was really bad in 2022 & it's much improved 2 years later.

 

Are you talking Torrence before the KC game? because Brown never had a series that good in 2022, let alone an entire game against Chris Jones, as Torrence did on Sunday.

 

According to PPF Brown was the 10th-worst tackle & Staffold was the 3rd worst guard, so yes Rodger was worst but not by a lot.

Edited November 20 by uticaclub

[Richard Noggin]

5 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

I think a lot of it can be chalked up to the KC defensive game plan.  

 

I understand people’s frustration with the short runs especially on first down, but even getting 1-2 yards still keeps the defense honest and forces them to keep trying to stop it - which opened up the TE down field that should of gone for a TD.  The defensive gameplan also is what allowed Cooper to get behind the defense a couple of times and make amazing catches.  
 

KC has done that several times over the years - they are taking away short to mid quick throws and hoping to pressure and force mistakes, but Josh and Brady were showed patience and stuck to runs that slowed the rush down enough that the OL could handle the DL and give Josh the needed lanes.

 

It also helped this game the WRs that won like Cooper caught the ball - unlike Diggs and James Cook last year that both dropped the shot plays.  It was more like a few years ago in the regular season where Knox got behind the D a few times for big gains and TDs and made the catches.

 

Huge distinction here with Brady's "conservative" play-calling/sequencing compared to Daboll's. Even "predictable" runs and/or ineffective runs limit the ability of defensive players to time up the snap and tee off on offensive linemen....Daboll was often loathe to run the ball against physical defensive fronts, which could put his own o-linemen at an increasing disadvantage throughout the game.

 

Brady's version of the offense protects the quarterback and protects the ball overall better than anything we've seen prior, so there is something to celebrate despite the lack of 1st down dynamism. 

 

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

In 2022 Spencer Brown was playing at about the level Torrence has played this year.   Which seemed bad because more was expected after he played well for a rookie and even played a little LT in relief of Dawkins in 2021.   But Saffold had the worst season by an OL that I have ever seen as a Bills fan.  Colin Brown 2013 was about as bad but was mercy benched after 5 starts.  It wasn't a toss up who was worse, not by any means.  

 

Saffold is the worst Bills player I have ever seen the team stick with as a starter for an entire year in my 22 years of fandom I think. I've seen other bad players have runs as starters but eventually they get benched. Not Ol' Rog. He was rolled out to make my eyes bleed weekly.

[PoundingDog]

8 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

Brady's version of the offense protects the quarterback and protects the ball overall better than anything we've seen prior, so there is something to celebrate despite the lack of 1st down dynamism. 

Well said. I might pivot slightly and say it is QB friendly. Protection wise, especially the O-Line, you have to give Kromer credit that the interior O-line has improved significantly in guys like Jones/Simmons/Quinnen Williams of the world being less effective against Josh this season and we were not always double-team them. 

 

That said, I think there is more to be done scheme wise and Josh's decision making. I'm not much an Xs and Os guy. Just from the high level, looks like we are either start the ball behind the LOS (run, screen, outside boundary) or throw it 10+ yards. It could also be because the Chiefs D had so many guys between those 10 yards (they were certainly very active, rotating and disguising). One thing I'd say is the Chiefs played zone run defense very very well. Cook really has no place to cut back like he has almost every other game. They probably could try more gap runs, just take 3 yards per attempt.

 

The big plays by Cooper are man beaters and that's what the Chiefs relied upon. When Keon and Kincaid are back, we may have more options in that department.  

[Coach Tuesday]

15 minutes ago, PoundingDog said:

Well said. I might pivot slightly and say it is QB friendly. Protection wise, especially the O-Line, you have to give Kromer credit that the interior O-line has improved significantly in guys like Jones/Simmons/Quinnen Williams of the world being less effective against Josh this season and we were not always double-team them. 

 

That said, I think there is more to be done scheme wise and Josh's decision making. I'm not much an Xs and Os guy. Just from the high level, looks like we are either start the ball behind the LOS (run, screen, outside boundary) or throw it 10+ yards. It could also be because the Chiefs D had so many guys between those 10 yards (they were certainly very active, rotating and disguising). One thing I'd say is the Chiefs played zone run defense very very well. Cook really has no place to cut back like he has almost every other game. They probably could try more gap runs, just take 3 yards per attempt.

 

The big plays by Cooper are man beaters and that's what the Chiefs relied upon. When Keon and Kincaid are back, we may have more options in that department.  

 

This is why I would've started with Ty Johnson (or pivoted to him early).  Cook was never going to get going against that defensive strategy, but pounding a bigger back in for a few yards would've started tiring out the defense and sucking in the linebackers which could've opened things up over the middle.  Whatever they found a way.

[Saxum]

33 minutes ago, PoundingDog said:

Well said. I might pivot slightly and say it is QB friendly. Protection wise, especially the O-Line, you have to give  Kromer  credit that the interior O-line has improved significantly in guys like Jones/Simmons/Quinnen Williams of the world being less effective against Josh this season and we were not always double-team them. 

 

They changed the blocking scheme for they have stronger linemen now. Kromer had a scheme allowing defense to go thru in middle of defense and were redirected with Josh protected on one side of line which he could throw from there or go further toward sideline for throwing longer passes or running it.  The OL is much more solid in middle now with new center and guards with more training and experience.

[FireChans]

9 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Saffold is the worst Bills player I have ever seen the team stick with as a starter for an entire year in my 22 years of fandom I think. I've seen other bad players have runs as starters but eventually they get benched. Not Ol' Rog. He was rolled out to make my eyes bleed weekly.

Watching him block air v the Bengals multiple times was the cherry on top of a brutal playoff game