Torrance vs Jones

[Rigotz]

Wait, I thought Torrence stinks because he had a bad pre-season training camp?

[Utah John]

For pass blocking, the O line did great.  But for running up the middle, no team has stopped the Bills better than the Chiefs did.  Was that due to the Chiefs strong personnel, to the absence of Spencer Brown (this one gets my vote), to blocking schemes, or to the Chiefs mixing up their D line and LB assignments?

[DCofNC]

They did a good job on Jones this game as a whole, gotta do that to win.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I don’t think he won the matchup but it was a win some lose some matchup. Made a few big blocks. He held his own vs a game wrecking DT.

[Coach Tuesday]

1 hour ago, Rigotz said:

Wait, I thought Torrence stinks because he had a bad pre-season training camp?

 

Said nobody.

[Rigotz]

2 hours ago, Rigotz said:

Wait, I thought Torrence stinks because he had a bad pre-season training camp?

 

27 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Said nobody.

 

Wait a sec ... IS THIS YOU??? LOL

 

 

Edited November 19 by Rigotz

[Coach Tuesday]

2 hours ago, Rigotz said:

 

 

Wait a sec ... IS THIS YOU??? LOL

 

 

 

Yup.  Never said he "stinks."  He looked out of shape in August and played like it the first two months of the year.

Edited November 19 by Coach Tuesday

[Simon]

6 hours ago, fasteddie said:

Like Dion Dawkins? He looks like one of the balloons at the Macy's parade.

 

Yet, he's outstanding in passpro and spends more time burying people at the second level than anybody else on this team.

It might be an issue that his frame can only hold enough weight by taking on a pear shape.

It's clearly working for him so who the hell are we to say anything about it?

[julian]

2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I don’t think he won the matchup but it was a win some lose some matchup. Made a few big blocks. He held his own vs a game wrecking DT.

While I agree he certainly didn’t dominate CJ, nobody does and this is what “winning the matchup” looks like on the rare occasion CJ isn’t wrecking a game plan.

[NewEra]

17 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

The tweet speaks for itself 

Appreciate you posting this.  It made my morning.

 

I was thinking about this after the game.  I don’t remember jones doing much of anything other than yanking Ty’s facemask.  Good to see is was the young beast with his signature performance.  He probably had as big of an impact as anyone in the game not named Josh Allen

 

i think we should give Kromer a 5M raise and keep him a Bill for life.

 

 

[TheFunPolice]

we have a good OL and also solid OL depth

 

Extremely important to winning, especially in a league where a lot of the athletic big men play D to make more $

[BADOLBILZ]

16 hours ago, Kelly to Allen said:

It's the best oline since the Superbowl years with Spencer Brown being great imo. 

 

Spencer Brown reminds me of Jimbo covert 

 

 

No and not particularly close yet, IMO.   Buffalo Kromer line 1.0: Glenn/Incognito/Wood lines in 2015-2016 were dominant.   They subsequently lead the NFL in rushing and big plays both years,  which is a difficult combo for an offense let alone one without a top QB.   They were in the primes of their careers and all like mid-high 70's grade pff etc.. as well.  Dion's prime was 2020-2021.   He's still good but not the same player.   Brown and OCT are ascending but Brown has 12 penalties and OCT has had a rough year.   McGovern and Edwards are solid.   I liked McGovern over Morse for the stoutness in pass pro and that's been the case.

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Yup.  Never said he "stinks."  He looked out of shape in August and played like it the first two months of the year.

 

I would say Torrence really stunk early on this season.   But I didn't at the time because Rodger Saffold really lowered the bar for bad guard play back in 2022.   I see @uticaclub saying Spencer Brown cost the team a SB trip in 2022........I mean, hell no, Saffold was that guy.   With Saffold in the middle there wasn't nearly enough time for anything Brown could not do to matter.

[uticaclub]

31 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I would say Torrence really stunk early on this season.   But I didn't at the time because Rodger Saffold really lowered the bar for bad guard play back in 2022.   I see @uticaclub saying Spencer Brown cost the team a SB trip in 2022........I mean, hell no, Saffold was that guy.   With Saffold in the middle there wasn't nearly enough time for anything Brown could not do to matter.

It was a toss up who was worst in 22. Brown has developed nicely through playing time, but was a turnstyle at the time. Saffold should have never been signed in Buffalo

[billsfan89]

22 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

The tweet speaks for itself 

 

Great breakdown, I loved the Torrence pick when the team made it last year. I would have actually been fine with the Bills taking Torrence in the first round that year (Probably would have liked at least a small trade down but even had the team stayed at 27 and drafted Torrence I would have liked the pick. But the Bills not only added the top Tight End in the draft in Kincaid but also went out and grabbed what many pundits considered to be the best "pure guard" in the draft in Torrence at pick 59. 

 

The Bills were apparently in a very good draft for interior offensive linemen as if you go back and look at that draft there were 4-5 really good interior linemen taken in round two of that draft. 

[BADOLBILZ]

4 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

It was a toss up who was worst in 22. Brown has developed nicely through playing time, but was a turnstyle at the time. Saffold should have never been signed in Buffalo

 

In 2022 Spencer Brown was playing at about the level Torrence has played this year.   Which seemed bad because more was expected after he played well for a rookie and even played a little LT in relief of Dawkins in 2021.   But Saffold had the worst season by an OL that I have ever seen as a Bills fan.  Colin Brown 2013 was about as bad but was mercy benched after 5 starts.  It wasn't a toss up who was worse, not by any means.  

[Captain_Quint]

22 hours ago, PoundingDog said:

There were reports that Terrence looked not well conditioned in training camp and he was rated the worst among Bills starting O-Line for multiple weeks. I don't know the conditioning thing is true or not, but if it is, he might just have played into shape now.

 

Hopefully he stayed in shape during the bye week.

It definately looks that way. Early in the year he struggled against alot weaker talent than Chris Jones. 

[billsfan89]

8 hours ago, Utah John said:

For pass blocking, the O line did great.  But for running up the middle, no team has stopped the Bills better than the Chiefs did.  Was that due to the Chiefs strong personnel, to the absence of Spencer Brown (this one gets my vote), to blocking schemes, or to the Chiefs mixing up their D line and LB assignments?

 

I think one of the ESPN pundits pointed out that KC really game planned to stop the conventional ground game against the Bills. So while I do think the lack of success in running the ball sans a few Josh scrambles for the most part was a combination of Brown not being there, KC playing a lot of 5 DL fronts and scheming to make the Bills throw, and let's be honest as good as the Bills O-line is KC has a very stout run defense the best in the league. 

 

I think Brown being back would help but the Bills are not likely (barring KC having a key player or two getting hurt or banged up) going to be able to run on KC in a playoff matchup if KC game plans to stop the run. KC's D-line and LB's are too good. BUT if KC has to game plan to stop the run against the Bills then I think the Bills will be just fine generating offense by protecting Josh in the passing game and running situationally. 

[wppete]

He’s a beast. He makes Chris Jones look small. 

[Rochesterfan]

9 hours ago, Utah John said:

For pass blocking, the O line did great.  But for running up the middle, no team has stopped the Bills better than the Chiefs did.  Was that due to the Chiefs strong personnel, to the absence of Spencer Brown (this one gets my vote), to blocking schemes, or to the Chiefs mixing up their D line and LB assignments?

 

I think a lot of it can be chalked up to the KC defensive game plan.  

 

1.) It is a strong unit normally as they are giving up less than 60 yards to any RBs over the course of the game.  They can do this because they are not afraid to pressure and blitz both run and pass gaps and play tight behind it.

 

2.) They were not afraid to match our “big” man package with even more D-Line/LB - several times they had a true 4-3 with a DB off and McDuffie covering as a slot/outside DB.  They have good sized and fast LBs that help fill gaps.  The Bills countered that with a few double moves and sneaking TEs out deep - Josh unfortunately missed a couple of throws that would have killed the plan.

 

3.) Several times they brought extra rushers in the middle gaps from tackle to tackle to stop the run and if it was play action or a pass call - try to get quick pressure and force Josh into a mistake.

 

I understand people’s frustration with the short runs especially on first down, but even getting 1-2 yards still keeps the defense honest and forces them to keep trying to stop it - which opened up the TE down field that should of gone for a TD.  The defensive gameplan also is what allowed Cooper to get behind the defense a couple of times and make amazing catches.  
 

KC has done that several times over the years - they are taking away short to mid quick throws and hoping to pressure and force mistakes, but Josh and Brady were showed patience and stuck to runs that slowed the rush down enough that the OL could handle the DL and give Josh the needed lanes.

 

It also helped this game the WRs that won like Cooper caught the ball - unlike Diggs and James Cook last year that both dropped the shot plays.  It was more like a few years ago in the regular season where Knox got behind the D a few times for big gains and TDs and made the catches.