Yesterday was a coaching clinic

[WotAGuy]

13 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

You can sit here and say that the coaching didn't matter on the last play

 

But that last play shows they are coached from top down 

 

They half slid left to create a gap in the b gap... When if they were just going for pure pocket presence passing they would slide right 

 

They called a man beater with protections for a possible zone call which is coaching

 

 

Sir, no one is saying coaching didn’t matter. I understand you spent some time to diagnose a play and made a thread to allow yourself to explain your diagnosis. Good job, honestly. 
 

All I’m saying is the players themselves are saying the play called didn’t work so they “made a play”. If the play was designed for everything to happen the way it did, as you suggest the line play proves, it isn’t confirmed by the players describing what happened. 
 

But as others have pointed out in your thread, the Bills are a well-coached and disciplined team and that was a huge factor in the win. 

[ColoradoBills]

7 minutes ago, PonyBoy said:

 

Ya think??!!

 

 

Mmmmmm, juicyfruit.

[Saxum]

1 hour ago, Bferra13 said:

Someone brought it up on wgr and it really rings true... Say what you will about McDermott but the staff really does such a great job with development. Look at Milano, a nobody to all pro and there are so many more examples. We never saw that with Jauron, Rex, and the rest of the goobers. I always said I loved McDermott as a coach Monday through Saturday. But yes, yesterday was a darn fine job, sans the dumb challenge. I think he's learning from his mistakes in the past. It may be all coming together which is really, really exciting.

 

Rex's staff developed some good players but Rex didn't.

[zow2]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

It's not to say that Andy Reid and his coaches are not really good at what they do 

 

But yesterday Sean McDermott and company out schemed and out coached Andy Reid, spag and company 

 

 

 

I take nothing away from McD and staff yesterday.  They had a great game.

BUT, there were a few times during that game where KC ran a play that just wasn’t their best play call. No way.  I feel Reid was holding back some stuff, and it was still a one possession game until Josh had his big run.  Also, they will probably have Pacheco and Hollywood Brown back for playoffs or even sooner. Their offense won’t look like it did yesterday. and ours hopefully has all the troops back as well. 

[QCity]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

To be fair we also have an x NFL official in the booth telling him when he should or shouldn't challenge 

 

There's so many stuff going on he doesn't always have the perfect angle or idea 

 

He relies on other people's vantage point and looks

 

It has absolutely nothing to do with whether the challenge was successful or not. 

 

I won't harp on it because that was the only blip on the radar of great game plan that was executed extremely well.

Edited November 19 by QCity

[Buffalo716]

19 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

Sir, no one is saying coaching didn’t matter. I understand you spent some time to diagnose a play and made a thread to allow yourself to explain your diagnosis. Good job, honestly. 
 

All I’m saying is the players themselves are saying the play called didn’t work so they “made a play”. If the play was designed for everything to happen the way it did, as you suggest the line play proves, it isn’t confirmed by the players describing what happened. 
 

But as others have pointed out in your thread, the Bills are a well-coached and disciplined team and that was a huge factor in the win. 

Yeah players have to make plays 

 

I'm pretty sure Jimmy Johnson And other have said it's not the X's and O's it's the jimmies and the Joe's 

 

And there's a sign of truth 

 

You need players to make plays at the end of the game... But they need to be coached well enough to not panic and be prepared enough to get themselves into the right spot 

 

We've seen 20 years of bills in ineptitude to where they do not make the right little adjustments at the end of the game 

 

Sure the play call was absolutely a man beater.. it was a mesh concept 

 

But the Bills coaches are not dumb enough to just have a one play outcome.. they obviously have little intricacies if it does happen to be zone... The line shift is one of those things

16 minutes ago, zow2 said:

 

I take nothing away from McD and staff yesterday.  They had a great game.

BUT, there were a few times during that game where KC ran a play that just wasn’t their best play call. No way.  I feel Reid was holding back some stuff, and it was still a one possession game until Josh had his big run.  Also, they will probably have Pacheco and Hollywood Brown back for playoffs or even sooner. Their offense won’t look like it did yesterday. and ours hopefully has all the troops back as well. 

Yes Andy Reid was holding back on every single good play he has 

 

And Sean McDermott gave him the kitchen sink every single thing in his arsenal 

 

Andy Reid opened the game with misdirection reverse lol he did not hold all his cards to his vest..  our offense was more vanilla than theirs

16 minutes ago, QCity said:

 

It has absolutely nothing to do with whether the challenge was successful or not. 

 

I won't harp on it because that was the only blip on the radar of great game plan that was executed extremely well.

Listen is challenging has been one of the worst parts of his game 

 

But he's also one of the best developers in the world 

 

I will live with that

Edited November 19 by Buffalo716

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, WotAGuy said:

Other than that play, Josh was 11 for 29 yards, so they were doing a good job of containing him. Everyone in the stadium wanted and expected Josh to take that play himself, except the Chiefs. 
 

 

10 for 30 - factor out the game ending kneeldown.

[Coach Tuesday]

15 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Yeah players have to make plays 

 

I'm pretty sure Jimmy Johnson said it's not the X's and O's it's the jimmies and the Joe's 

 

And he's one of the best 

 

You need players to make plays at the end of the game... But they need to be coached well enough to not panic and be prepared enough to get themselves into the right spot 

 

We've seen 20 years of bills in aptitude to where they do not make the right little adjustments at the end of the game 

 

Sure the play call was absolutely a man beater.. it was a mesh concept 

 

But the Bills coaches are not dumb enough to just have a one play outcome.. they obviously have little intricacies if it does happen to be zone... The line shift is one of those things

Yes Andy Reid was holding back on every single good play he has 

 

And Sean McDermott gave him the kitchen sink every single thing in his arsenal 

 

Andy Reid opened the game with misdirection reverse lol he did not hold all his cards to his vest..  our offense was more vanilla than theirs

Listen is challenging has been one of the worst parts of his game 

 

But he's also one of the best developers in the world 

 

I will live with that

Did the coaches also know Karlaftis would over-rush and break contain?  Did the coaches intentionally call a ton of one-yard gains on first down yesterday?

 

Some of these takes today are so over the top.  The game was super close, a couple of plays away from an entirely different outcome.  Both sets of coaches traded strategic body-blows all day.  No one took anyone else to school.  Allen made an insane individual play when it mattered most.  Can’t that be enough?  There is no deeper meaning here.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, WotAGuy said:

Maybe you just picked a poor example for the title of your post, but it sure sounds like the Bills had called a play to beat man coverage, the Chiefs switched it up and went into a zone, and Josh just free-lanced after Torrence made a great individual block; that play was more about great players making something out of a nothing play call. 
 

“Allen said he appreciated “coach (Sean McDermott) for trusting us” on fourth-and-two. The play call was for man coverage, but KC dropped into a zone.

“It's a man concept where Khalil (Shakir), if there's a man on the left side, we fly the back, try to create some eye candy, if you will, run him through the line,” Allen told reporters. “It's just like a mesh play. And again they went zone, so, just made a play.”

 

Right guard O’Cyrus Torrence drew the assignment of Chiefs star Chris Jones on the biggest play of the game and cleared him out of Allen’s way.

 

“I didn't see him until he was already like 10 yards downfield, when (Allen) was just running people over, running through tackles,” center Connor McGovern told the Times Herald. “But the big thing on that play was I didn't know until afterwards O'Cyrus had a great block (on Jones), an inside move, and he takes him and throws him literally past me. And that just gave Josh this huge open hole and he just took off. So credit goes to Cybo on that one.”

https://www.oleantimesherald.com/newsletter/it-s-josh-qb-s-run-delivers-a-huge-bills-win/article_06b939a0-a57a-11ef-9209-53df3039cdb4.html

Make no mistake about it, that was Allen and Torrence making a play.  Spy makes no sense on fourth and 2.  Give credit to McDermott for not kicking the FG there.  He's learned his lesson.  The only thing that stops Reid and Mahomes is Allen having the ball.  Like Rex said, Allen has never lost to the Chiefs.  

[Saxum]

 

[Richard Noggin]

2 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

Literally the entire game thread was people complaining about the coaching decisions. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems like we are a 4th down away from winning the Super Bowl vs being horrible, having awesome coaches vs getting schooled. It was one game, it shouldn't change how you feel or felt that drastically. I'm not a McD fan, but felt we did a solid job I felt and Babich is giving me some hope. Seeing us more in man was nice. We had some head scratching moments but all and all I'm happy with what we did. Especially in defending Hunt.

 

The gameday thread is an internet space. So it is not grounded in rational and authentic human interaction, but rather some amplified version of short-sighted, self-involved, and paranoid Ids gone awry. 

 

2 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

The game day threat is technically a cesspool full of exaggeration and craziness 

 

I don't think it represents what's actually happening 

 

 

 

gameday "threat" yes

 

2 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

the game day thread is like a real time look into the working minds of about 1000 traumatized Bills’ fans. Scientists will one day dissect those threads to find the cure for schizophrenia. 

 

this is not specifically about Bills fans and their trauma, but about what internet discourse invites. look at other teams' forums for evidence of this

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

Literally the entire game thread was people complaining about the coaching decisions. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems like we are a 4th down away from winning the Super Bowl vs being horrible, having awesome coaches vs getting schooled. It was one game, it shouldn't change how you feel or felt that drastically. I'm not a McD fan, but felt we did a solid job I felt and Babich is giving me some hope. Seeing us more in man was nice. We had some head scratching moments but all and all I'm happy with what we did. Especially in defending Hunt.

I think you understate the importance of what we saw yesterday. It's true, it's only one game, but I think the game displayed beautifully a couple of things we've been waiting for.

 

1. McDermott's approach is based on a belief that the offense and the defense can literally get better from season to season, as the players learn to make decisions and to execute nearly flawlessly.  I think this season is demonstrating that. A good argument can be made the Bills are better this season than last season, even with the substantial personnel changes that were made. And, as he's already alluded to occasionally, the coaching is getting better year over year, too. McDermott is developing a better feel for decision-making. He seems calmer than in previous seasons. A lot of the time he's observing, because his coordinators are funning the game the way he wants. 

 

2. Allen gets it. His description of what he was thinking on the TD showed that it's all coming naturally now. He knew what he was looking at, could see the Chiefs were showing one defense and sliding to another, he understood what it meant and where he could attack it. That high-level thinking on the field.  He's been taking the short completion over the deeper 50-50 ball more often - and he's making smart decisions, generally, about when to throw the 50-50 ball.  

 

These aren't things that have happened overnight, but to have it so clearly on display in a big game against the most feared opponent in the league (along with Detroit), that's important.

[Einstein]

2 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

I'll give McDummy credit for going for it on 4th and 2.  Major cuevos call there.  But if he ever challenges another 6 yard completion on 2nd and seven like 5 minutes into the game.....  You just may see me on Buffalo PD Live.

 

Not sure why you’re going downvoted - it was a dumb decision. 

 

So was the decision to change personnel after a controversial sideline catch that required that we give the Chiefs time to substitute and thus gave them time to challenge.

 

But I agree with OP that Allen played well (I think that’s what this thread is about anyway).

[Billz4ever]

3 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

It's not to say that Andy Reid and his coaches are not really good at what they do 

 

But yesterday Sean McDermott and company out schemed and out coached Andy Reid, spag and company 

 

The game plan, the execution... Babich was never playing catch up... He knew what Andy Reid wanted to do and had players in the right spot 

 

It doesn't matter how aggressive spagnola is on defense when you have a quarterback who can read the defense pre-play , get the offensive line on the same page... And they do their job

 

Even on the last play of the game.. fourth and two with it all on the line 

 

Spags has seven on the line of scrimmage... Completely trying to overload Josh's brain... Josh sees it all and makes a protection call half sliding left... Leaving Torrance one-on-one with future Hall of famer Chris Jones 

 

Leaving Torrance and van demark 1 on 1 with the line half shifted left... Allows a massive hole in the B gap and an easy read for Josh to make.... He was never throwing the ball ...  He takes a deeper drop out of shotgun which makes the Left end go wider thinking he can speed rush The tackle... Not even realizing that's washing him out of the play

 

Sure did he have the option to throw, yes... But the protection and the half sliding line left was all about Josh being able to wash out the defensive line and identify a gap in the front... The way Josh maneuvers in the packet is second to none and with the game on the line him moving is the most deadly thing in the NFL

 

Even the last play shows the nuances that happen in every single NFL play... A quarterback who can't make the right protection call and trust his players up front cannot make that play.. and he has to be coached up good enough to know why he's making those calls... Not doing it just to do it but knowing the reason why

 

Human nature says you slide right and double Chris Jones but the intricacies of football and coaching show why they didn't 

 

 

Other than the goofy challenge they tried and running the ball on 3rd and 2 up the middle out of the shotgun (which I hate) on the play before the amazing Allen TD run, I think it was a very soundly coached game.

[syhuang]

 

[gomper]

For whatever reason, Spags didn't spy Josh on the 4th and 2. I guarantee he doesn't make that mistake again. 

[Thrivefourfive]

3 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I can't say how much dissecting the thread would help, but there are some GDT posters who could use some electroshock therapy.

Takes one to know one 😵‍💫

[Buffalo716]

55 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

Other than the goofy challenge they tried and running the ball on 3rd and 2 up the middle out of the shotgun (which I hate) on the play before the amazing Allen TD run, I think it was a very soundly coached game.

Well yeah absolutely you can pick apart a lot of things throughout the game 

 

I was definitely not a fan of third and two play call... I think you squarely have to put it in Josh's hands both plays OR have a better schemed run that could at minimum get it within quarterback sneak range

 

Ideally I would keep it in Josh's hands both times

[Sharky7337]

Truth of the matter is people need to chill the F out and stop getting crazy after a Chiefs win. 

 

Some of these posts are just out of touch.

 

We were fortunate Josh's scramble vs the perfectly called defense got us a score.

 

Clinic my butt lol 

Edited November 19 by Sharky7337

[Mikie2times]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

I think you understate the importance of what we saw yesterday. It's true, it's only one game, but I think the game displayed beautifully a couple of things we've been waiting for.

 

1. McDermott's approach is based on a belief that the offense and the defense can literally get better from season to season, as the players learn to make decisions and to execute nearly flawlessly.  I think this season is demonstrating that. A good argument can be made the Bills are better this season than last season, even with the substantial personnel changes that were made. And, as he's already alluded to occasionally, the coaching is getting better year over year, too. McDermott is developing a better feel for decision-making. He seems calmer than in previous seasons. A lot of the time he's observing, because his coordinators are funning the game the way he wants. 

 

2. Allen gets it. His description of what he was thinking on the TD showed that it's all coming naturally now. He knew what he was looking at, could see the Chiefs were showing one defense and sliding to another, he understood what it meant and where he could attack it. That high-level thinking on the field.  He's been taking the short completion over the deeper 50-50 ball more often - and he's making smart decisions, generally, about when to throw the 50-50 ball.  

 

These aren't things that have happened overnight, but to have it so clearly on display in a big game against the most feared opponent in the league (along with Detroit), that's important.

It "felt" a little different, yes. I don't know what to fully make of it. Part of me doesn't feel KC is our biggest problem this year. They could become that if they turn on the playoff switch as they have in the past. Which isn't to discredit the win, but we actually match up fairly well against them now winning 4 straight in the regular season. 

 

That Detroit game will be a huge test for us. We don't need to win, but I want to see a one score game. Our run defense seems to be stiffening but we still haven't faced a power run game like Baltimore since that shellacking. The 49ers don't really scare me but Detroit is a Super Bowl team no doubt. Power run game. Should be the exact style team I'm most concerned with. I'm also from that area so it means a little more. I know it will mean a lot to them. They have a ton of the same players as the roster they had on Thanksgiving and I assure you they did not forget that loss. 

 

I don't like McD and I have been brutally skeptical all year of just how good this team is, but I did feel a lot of good after this one. I wanted some hope this year that was sincere and I didn't expect that. That is building a bit for me. This team could get signifgantly better by years end. I feel like Diggs subtraction has led to some positive diversity on offense which is now actually being realized by the addition Cooper (what a catch). But the team feels fun again to some extent now that Diggs left, almost like the early iterations in 2020 did.  Babich seems to be adding a nice dimension and limiting some of that McD predictability (or perhaps McD has just learned). We have seen some defensive progression by multiple players. Lastly, Josh seems to finally be willing to check it down and understand his role as QB in a broader plan. With all that said, this team has made people feel like THIS is the year so many times just to totally lay an egg. Any optimism from me is going to be guarded. I have my bit of hope that I really did not think would happen this year. I don't need to go full "Here we come Dallas" Super Bowl mode at this point.

 

Go Bills!