Kelly to Allen Posted November 26 Posted November 26 (edited) 3 hours ago, SaulGoodman said: Who was saying this about Reid in 2017? And what convinced you that he's the greatest offensive coach ever? What makes you think Allen would beat Cincinnati in the '22 AFCC? Remember, the scenario is he has a high ankle sprain, his best WR is MVS, bottom half rushing attack, mediocre tackles, and his defense is average at best. Allen had a better supporting cast than Mahomes that year and lost to the same team at home, scoring 10 pts. He wasn't winning it all as a rookie, no matter where he was. Definitely not with that KC defense. And there's no reason to think he would go on the road and do what Mahomes did last year. Or that he would have won behind that terrible OL in Tampa. His best chance would probably have been 2019, but he wasn't nearly the QB then that he is now. Let's put it this way. Put 2018 Tyrod Taylor on one of the worst rosters in the league today, at an unstable organization. Is he winning 9 games? I think that's very unlikely. Ppl can get upset about excuses but it's just true. Allen in 22 seriously hurt his throwing elbow. It clearly effected him especially as the year went on. The shorter passes hurt bad from what he said... I don't judge the 22 bills on much because it was one of the worst years I can remember with injures and distractions. It was exhausting to experience as a fan. I was literally glad the season was over honestly. Allen has never been healthy in the two games vs burrow. Something nobody mentions but when burrow is hurt literally everyone brings up that's why his play was off Edited November 26 by Kelly to Allen 3 1 Quote
SaulGoodman Posted November 26 Posted November 26 10 minutes ago, Einstein said: Wanna know the funny part? Allen didn’t even throw an astronomical amount of receptions that year. He had 12. Which is… *checks notes* … only 1 more INT than Mahomes has thrown through 11 games this season. So… in Saul’s mind, the Bills only won 6 games that year because Allen threw 1 more INT than Mahomes has thrown while leading the Chiefs to a 10-1 record. There is no amount of LSD or DMT that could make that logic make sense. Saul is just twisting in the wind. Tyrod Taylor in 15 games: 14 TD/4 INT 2 lost fumbles 63% comp 187 ypg 1 INT% 56.2 QBR Allen in 12 games: 10 TD/ 12 INT 6 lost fumbles 53% comp 173 ypg 3.8 INT% 49.8 QBR Speaking of LSD...comparing 2018 Allen to this year's Mahomes? He didn't even produce at Taylor's level. Objective Bills fan will readily admit that Allen wasn't very accurate in his first couple years. I guess you're the other guy. Quote
Kelly to Allen Posted November 26 Posted November 26 1 minute ago, SaulGoodman said: Tyrod Taylor in 15 games: 14 TD/4 INT 2 lost fumbles 63% comp 187 ypg 1 INT% 56.2 QBR Allen in 12 games: 10 TD/ 12 INT 6 lost fumbles 53% comp 173 ypg 3.8 INT% 49.8 QBR Speaking of LSD...comparing 2018 Allen to this year's Mahomes? He didn't even produce at Taylor's level. Objective Bills fan will readily admit that Allen wasn't very accurate in his first couple years. I guess you're the other guy. Mahomes didn't play his rookie year. Quote
Kelly to Allen Posted November 26 Posted November 26 Matt verderame who is a KC guy and writes for sports illustrated goes on a diatribe about comparing Allen and Mahomes.... The insecurity is pretty ridiculous here 1 Quote
Einstein Posted November 26 Author Posted November 26 1 hour ago, SaulGoodman said: comparing 2018 Allen to this year's Mahomes? Now that you mention it… 2018 Allen (11.5 games) 2,700 total yards, 18 total TD’s, 12 INT’s 2024 Mahomes (11 games) 2,800 total yards, 19 TD’s, 11 INT’s 3 1 1 1 1 Quote
Beast Posted November 27 Posted November 27 On 11/25/2024 at 7:50 PM, Billl said: Josh gets credit for being the better runner because he runs in the regular season whereas Patrick doesn’t. In the regular season game this season, Josh ran 12 times. Patrick didn’t run once. Last regular season, Josh ran 10 times. Patrick ran once. In 2022, Josh ran 11 times. Patrick ran 4 times. In the postseason, Mahomes takes his game to a different level. He’s got 110 yards rushing in the last 2 Super Bowls. He had 69 yards and a TD in the 13 seconds game. Josh puts on his cape in the regular season. Patrick doesn’t break his out until all the chips are down. I think it’s safe to say they both had their capes on in that 13 second game. 2 Quote
May Day 10 Posted November 27 Posted November 27 I am finding it super annoying that any commentators who say anything remotely negative about the Chiefs immediately needs to give a 30-60 second disclaimer about how they know they are going to win all their playoff games automatically and none of this matters. I don't think you can assume they will win all their playoff games. Especially if they lose the 1 seed. They don't have that New England feel to me, at least not yet. Quote
The Jokeman Posted November 27 Posted November 27 16 hours ago, Kelly to Allen said: Mahomes didn't play his rookie year. well he did play the final game that season. 1 Quote
hondo in seattle Posted November 27 Posted November 27 17 hours ago, SaulGoodman said: Tyrod Taylor in 15 games: 14 TD/4 INT 2 lost fumbles 63% comp 187 ypg 1 INT% 56.2 QBR Allen in 12 games: 10 TD/ 12 INT 6 lost fumbles 53% comp 173 ypg 3.8 INT% 49.8 QBR Speaking of LSD...comparing 2018 Allen to this year's Mahomes? He didn't even produce at Taylor's level. Objective Bills fan will readily admit that Allen wasn't very accurate in his first couple years. I guess you're the other guy. Accuracy is a funny metric. To me, it means putting the ball on target. To statisticians and many fans, it means a high completion percentage. They're not the same. And in either case, context matters. Inaccurate passes (including picks) can be caused by many things: the QB just throwing a bad ball with no excuse, the QB making a bad decision, the QB being under duress, the receiver running a wrong or slopping route, the ball being tipped at the line of scrimmage, weather... Completion percentage is effected by all of these but also by things the QB can't control such as scheme, play-calling, wideout separation and talent, the ability of the offense to run the ball and take some pressure off the QB, and so on. Allen has responsibility for some of accuracy problems his first few years but his completion percentage was also adversely effected by other factors such as a porous offensive line, bad scheme, imprecise route running, and so on. To say it differently, I don't think Allen was personally as bad as some of his bad day/year stats say he was. One thing that frustrated me is how often Allen threw picks because he was on the run needing to make a play. It's hard to blame a guy for making a risky throw in an adverse situation when we desperately need to get some yards. In fact, if you could do a game theory analysis on score, down-and-distance, and all that, some of Allen's "bad decision" picks probably weren't bad decisions at all. He made low percentage throws because that was the best hope we had at the time. 3 Quote
FLFan Posted November 27 Posted November 27 16 hours ago, Einstein said: Now that you mention it… 2018 Allen (11.5 games) 2,700 total yards, 18 total TD’s, 12 INT’s 2024 Mahomes (11 games) 2,800 total yards, 19 TD’s, 11 INT’s Good one, but you really should probably quit giving this troll air. Maybe he will go back to the pond scum over at Chief Heaven or whatever they call it. 1 1 Quote
SaulGoodman Posted November 27 Posted November 27 1 hour ago, Einstein said: Now that you mention it… 2018 Allen (11.5 games) 2,700 total yards, 18 total TD’s, 12 INT’s 2024 Mahomes (11 games) 2,800 total yards, 19 TD’s, 11 INT’s I show 2900 total yds. Why not give a more complete picture? Total turnovers: 18-11. 8 fumbles to 1. 53% comp to 70%. 3.8 INT% to 2.9 49.8 QBR to 66.8 So your take is that Allen was great right out of the gate? If so, why didn't he outperform Tyrod Taylor? Mahomes doubled Alex Smith's best season. In preseason 2018, KC's roster (including Mahomes) was ranked 13th by ESPN. Buffalo's (w/ AJ McCarron as projected starter) was 16th. Lot of revisionism here. Quote
NewEra Posted November 28 Posted November 28 4 hours ago, SaulGoodman said: I show 2900 total yds. Why not give a more complete picture? Total turnovers: 18-11. 8 fumbles to 1. 53% comp to 70%. 3.8 INT% to 2.9 49.8 QBR to 66.8 So your take is that Allen was great right out of the gate? If so, why didn't he outperform Tyrod Taylor? Mahomes doubled Alex Smith's best season. In preseason 2018, KC's roster (including Mahomes) was ranked 13th by ESPN. Buffalo's (w/ AJ McCarron as projected starter) was 16th. Lot of revisionism here. “Espns roster rankings” LOL. Some guy who works are ESPN gives his rankings- As if that means anything at all 🧌 1 1 Quote
Buffalo Ballin Posted November 28 Posted November 28 Because they KNOW their 3 Peat is in big danger. This is their biggest fear. It was us all along. There is no other team in the NFL. It was us all along. They can use their "Oh it's their Super Bowl. We played vanilla" slogan all they want. What we're seeing, right now, is a battle tested experienced Josh Allen. And he's pissed off, too. But he's playing controlled pissed off. Over the years, ESPN, Fox Sports, and Youtube, trashed Josh Allen way more than praising him. And that's fine. We needed that trash talk. Also, Stefon Diggs forcing his way out of Buffalo while questioning if we were really about winning, pissed all of us. That hurt the most because he was one of us. Patrick Mahomes' Kansas City Chiefs domination has to end somewhere. It's right around the corner. Think about it like this: the recent match up vs. the Chiefs did not need Josh Allen to put up 300+ yards in the air and 3+ touchdowns thrown. We still hung 30 points on their heads anyway. Without Diggs, Kincaid, and Keon Coleman. Our main concern is Josh Allen's health. Patrick Mahomes has stayed injury free. Can Josh do the same? 1 2 Quote
NewEra Posted November 28 Posted November 28 8 minutes ago, Buffalo Ballin said: Because they KNOW their 3 Peat is in big danger. This is their biggest fear. It was us all along. There is no other team in the NFL. It was us all along. They can use their "Oh it's their Super Bowl. We played vanilla" slogan all they want. What we're seeing, right now, is a battle tested experienced Josh Allen. And he's pissed off, too. But he's playing controlled pissed off. Over the years, ESPN, Fox Sports, and Youtube, trashed Josh Allen way more than praising him. And that's fine. We needed that trash talk. Also, Stefon Diggs forcing his way out of Buffalo while questioning if we were really about winning, pissed all of us. That hurt the most because he was one of us. Patrick Mahomes' Kansas City Chiefs domination has to end somewhere. It's right around the corner. Think about it like this: the recent match up vs. the Chiefs did not need Josh Allen to put up 300+ yards in the air and 3+ touchdowns thrown. We still hung 30 points on their heads anyway. Without Diggs, Kincaid, and Keon Coleman. Our main concern is Josh Allen's health. Patrick Mahomes has stayed injury free. Can Josh do the same? Every teams main concern is the QB staying healthy. In our case, our next biggest concern is the coaching staff coming through in the playoffs. 2 1 1 Quote
folz Posted November 28 Posted November 28 (edited) On 11/26/2024 at 4:46 PM, SaulGoodman said: Tyrod Taylor in 15 games: 14 TD/4 INT 2 lost fumbles 63% comp 187 ypg 1 INT% 56.2 QBR Allen in 12 games: 10 TD/ 12 INT 6 lost fumbles 53% comp 173 ypg 3.8 INT% 49.8 QBR Speaking of LSD...comparing 2018 Allen to this year's Mahomes? He didn't even produce at Taylor's level. Objective Bills fan will readily admit that Allen wasn't very accurate in his first couple years. I guess you're the other guy. You obviously were not watching any Buffalo Bills football in 2017-2019. (I mean, why would you have unless you were a Bills fan). And I'm a guy that loves stats and I post a lot of stats on this board, but we all know that stats do not tell the full picture. The reason why Tyrod Taylor had fewer INTs and a better completion percentage than Josh the following year was because Tyrod WOULDN'T THROW THE DAMN BALL! He was so afraid of negative plays/INTs that he wouldn't even attempt throws when they were there. I like Tyrod, but that entire season every Bills fan stared at their TVs yelling THROW THE DAMN BALL TYROD! Instead he'd take a sack or take off for a 3-6-yard run on 3rd and 10. As for Josh, yes, he was very raw coming into the league and had very little talent around him his first two years. Yes, the national narrative was that he was still heading to being a bust because of his completion percentage---but it was really because so many football people said he would be a bust before the draft, and things like you can't improve completion percentage, and none of them wanted to be proven wrong because they were so adamant about their positions. But, they weren't actually watching Bills games in 2018-2019 either. Those of us who were actually watching the games (Bills fans) could see how special Josh was pretty quickly. [Some of us were sold on Josh in just the second start of his career as he got a major upset win over a 16.5-point favorite Vikings, hurdling Anthony Barr and scoring 3 TDs with no turnovers in the process. With a 111.2 passer rating btw.] It was absolutely obvious to anyone who actually watched the games that Josh was a way better QB than Tyrod, even though he was still raw and still had a lot to learn. And then 2019 was no question, every Bills fan knew we had our guy even though the stats weren't there yet. Yes, the rest of the country still weren't sold on him. The negative narrative around Josh was in full effect, but we Bills fans already knew what we had. I have never seen another elite QB have to wait so long for any accolades or for the consensus of football people to accept him as elite. Josh has been playing at an elite level (every bit as good as Mahomes) for 5 years now...and only this year (his 7th year in the league), have the naysayers finally quieted down. You have been looking at things from the outside/national perspective regarding Josh, which was wrong...and has been blatantly proven to be wrong over time. And since you are bringing up turnovers (another incorrect narrative---that Josh is a turnover machine). In the last 5 years, Josh Allen has 63 INTs. Patrick Mahomes has 59 INTs (only 4 interceptions separate them, and Josh has played one more game over that span). Josh does have 12 more lost fumbles than Mahomes in the last 5 years, but Josh also has 220 more rushing attempts than Patrick over that span (more attempts = more fumble opportunities). So, Josh has 16 more turnovers than Mahomes over the last 5 years (or 3 turnovers more than Mahomes per season). Not really a big enough amount to call Josh a turnover machine, imo. Also, and even more importantly, Josh has 25 more TDs than Pat over that span. Turnovers equate to 4 points for the opponent on average. So, 16 more turnovers equals -64 points for Josh. BUT, 25 more TDs equals to 175 more points. Subtract 64 from 175 and that means Josh has still outscored Mahomes by 111 points over the last 5 years, despite the turnovers. How's that for some stats? Look, Patrick still has the Super Bowls, and no one can take that away from him. And unless Josh gets a ring or two, Pat will always be seen as the higher-ranked/better QB. But if you can't accept that Josh is, at least, every bit as good as Mahomes, then I assume you can't actually be rational about this topic. Edited November 28 by folz 1 4 Quote
SaulGoodman Posted November 28 Posted November 28 3 hours ago, NewEra said: “Espns roster rankings” LOL. Some guy who works are ESPN gives his rankings- As if that means anything at all 🧌 Biased fan opinions are more meaningful? The point isn’t to say that those rankings are right on the money. But the consensus wasn’t that KC’s roster was ultra-loaded. Or that Buffalo’s was awful. No doubt Mahomes had better receiving weapons, but Allen had a much better defense. Quote
Kelly to Allen Posted November 28 Posted November 28 Can't wait for the AFC championship in Buffalo. KC is getting boat raced Quote
GunnerBill Posted November 28 Posted November 28 On 11/26/2024 at 7:09 PM, Einstein said: No. He was not. He was drafted into a 6-10 team that lucked out and won a couple extra games than they should have. Happens every year that a team overachieves. Proof? The Bills went 6-10 that following year. Heck, the only reason Allen became the starter that year (the plan was to sit him like Mahomes did the first year) is because we were SO BAD that they tried to find a spark any way possible. Youre just making things up. I mostly agree with you in this thread but just want to clarify the 2017 vs 2018 Bills point here. The 2017 Bills, while not world beaters by any means were a competitive roster. They'd gone 8-8 and 7-9 the previous two years with some of the worst coaching in the entire league. They lost some pieces in 2017, no doubt, Gilmore (their best player at the time) walked, Robert Woods walked, Sammy was traded and then they traded Dareus in season. But they still had LeSean McCoy, they still had a decent offensive line with Cordy Glenn, Incognito and Eric Wood, they had added Tre White who was exceptional as a rookie and Poyer and Hyde to their secondary, and they still had Kyle Williams and Jerry Hughes on the Dline. It was an 7 to 9 win roster, they won the upper end of that range with much improved coaching, a favourable schedule and the bit of luck those sorts of teams need (or needed especially in the 6 team playoff era) to sneak in. The 2018 team team that Allen was drafted onto still had those defensive pieces plus Matt Milano who cracked the lineup late his rookie year but really emerged year 2 and Tremaine Edmunds and Taron Johnson added through the draft (and the 2018 Bills were actually 2nd in the NFL in total defense). BUT, critically, they lost 3 key starters on the offensive line. Glenn was traded as part of the deal to get in position to draft Josh, Eric Wood unexpectedly retired and Richie Incognito had a mental health flare up and demanded his release as a result. That blunted the effectiveness of a 30 year old McCoy and with no running game to speak of the lack of viable wideouts - a problem in 2017, became a crisis. Expecting a rookie Quarterback to play well behind that offensive line and with those weapons was foolish in the extreme. And it really isn't disputable. Brandon Beane himself has said he did a "horrible job" on offense in 2018 and I think he got slightly lucky that they didn't do more lasting long term damage to Josh as a result (beyond a few games missed with injury). If that was a QB who had come from a college superpower it would have IMO. They were fortunate Josh was used to everything around him sucking from his final year at Wyoming and he managed to survive it and grow from there. 1 1 1 Quote
NewEra Posted November 28 Posted November 28 (edited) 11 hours ago, SaulGoodman said: Biased fan opinions are more meaningful? The point isn’t to say that those rankings are right on the money. But the consensus wasn’t that KC’s roster was ultra-loaded. Or that Buffalo’s was awful. No doubt Mahomes had better receiving weapons, but Allen had a much better defense. The irony…..You’re the one spending your short time alive on opposing teams message boards disputing every anti chief post- so it surely seems to me that, YES, biased fans opinions matter TO YOU Edited November 28 by NewEra 1 Quote
Einstein Posted November 28 Author Posted November 28 3 hours ago, GunnerBill said: They were fortunate Josh was used to everything around him sucking from his final year at Wyoming and he managed to survive it and grow from there. Excellent post. I especially resonate with the end. 1 Quote
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