Chiefs fan excuses

[SaulGoodman]

4 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

Well now we know you're not the real Saul Goodman...

 

For ***** and giggles, I decided to read the Illuminatus Trilogy recently. I was surprised to see that one of the main characters was named Saul Goodman. Had no idea that’s what inspired the name.

[SaulGoodman]

On 11/23/2024 at 8:05 PM, Success said:

 

We've discussed this before. I don't disrespect your opinion - but you're talking about more of a casual analysis.

 

To say Mahomes has to get to 5 kind of shows the absurdity of the "titles" argument.  It's hard to get a title. It takes SO MUCH MORE than QB play.  It takes great coaching, usually a great defense, and generally at least some luck.

 

It's really the old Dilfer is nowhere near Marino argument. Eli isn't better than Peyton.  I could go on & on. Titles are a team accomplishment.

 

 

Yes, it usually takes a great defense. Mahomes has done it twice with mediocre defenses. 

 

It usually takes great WRs and tackles too. Mahomes has done it twice with poor WRs and tackles. Plus multiple times with an average at best run game. 

 

MVS was the 2nd-best WR in two of Mahomes' SB wins. He was his best WR available in the '22 AFC title vs the Bengals. MVS caught two passes on 9 targets for 26 yds with the Bills. 

 

The consensus opinion was that all four of Mahomes' SB opponents had more talented rosters than the Chiefs. At least three of the four were considered far more talented. KC won three of them. 

 

The idea that Mahomes has relied heavily on his supporting cast is silly. As is the idea that Allen hasn't had talent around him. 

 

[The Jokeman]

2 hours ago, SaulGoodman said:

 

Yes, it usually takes a great defense. Mahomes has done it twice with mediocre defenses. 

 

It usually takes great WRs and tackles too. Mahomes has done it twice with poor WRs and tackles. Plus multiple times with an average at best run game. 

 

MVS was the 2nd-best WR in two of Mahomes' SB wins. He was his best WR available in the '22 AFC title vs the Bengals. MVS caught two passes on 9 targets for 26 yds with the Bills. 

 

The consensus opinion was that all four of Mahomes' SB opponents had more talented rosters than the Chiefs. At least three of the four were considered far more talented. KC won three of them. 

 

The idea that Mahomes has relied heavily on his supporting cast is silly. As is the idea that Allen hasn't had talent around him. 

 

Travis Kelce in his prime is easily amongst the top 5 TEs to ever play in the NFL. He helped Mahomes immensely both in the passing game, caused defenses to alter the way they played etc. Patrick is great and deserves most of his accolades but he also does stupid stuff that rarely cost him. See his first interception in the Bills game, who was even throwing to? 

[SaulGoodman]

14 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

Travis Kelce in his prime is easily amongst the top 5 TEs to ever play in the NFL. He helped Mahomes immensely both in the passing game, caused defenses to alter the way they played etc. Patrick is great and deserves most of his accolades but he also does stupid stuff that rarely cost him. See his first interception in the Bills game, who was even throwing to? 

 

Sure, Kelce was great in his prime. He also hasn't been in his prime for years. 

 

Would you expect Allen to win the SB with a past his prime Kelce, a mediocre defense, weak running game, weak tackles, and a WR corps led by Juju Smith-Schuster, MVS and Kadarious Toney, on a high ankle sprain?

 

Edited November 26 by SaulGoodman

[Simon]

3 minutes ago, SaulGoodman said:

a WR corps led by Juju Smith-Schuster, MVS and Kadarious Toney?

 

Good post but you spelled "corpse" wrong

[Buffalo716]

13 hours ago, SaulGoodman said:

 

Yes, it usually takes a great defense. Mahomes has done it twice with mediocre defenses. 

 

It usually takes great WRs and tackles too. Mahomes has done it twice with poor WRs and tackles. Plus multiple times with an average at best run game. 

 

MVS was the 2nd-best WR in two of Mahomes' SB wins. He was his best WR available in the '22 AFC title vs the Bengals. MVS caught two passes on 9 targets for 26 yds with the Bills. 

 

The consensus opinion was that all four of Mahomes' SB opponents had more talented rosters than the Chiefs. At least three of the four were considered far more talented. KC won three of them. 

 

The idea that Mahomes has relied heavily on his supporting cast is silly. As is the idea that Allen hasn't had talent around him. 

 

Super revisionist history 

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/38209757/nfl-preseason-power-rankings-2023-teams-coaches

 

2023 preseason number one 

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29711236/2020-nfl-power-rankings-1-32-preseason-poll-plus-hot-seat

 

2020 preseason number 1

 

2019 preseason number 2

 

2022 you were preseason 6 which is your lowest ranking 

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32051371/nfl-power-rankings-2021-preseason-1-32-poll-plus-players-coaches-general-managers-hot-seat

 

2021 #1

 

[Scott7975]

53 minutes ago, SaulGoodman said:

 

Mahomes has thrown INTs/fumbled at a way lower rate than Allen throughout their careers. 

 

Sure, Kelce was great in his prime. He also hasn't been in his prime for years. 

 

Does Mahomes need to win with zero talent around him to earn respect? Would you expect Allen to win the SB with a past his prime Kelce, a mediocre defense, weak running game, weak tackles, and a WR corps led by Juju Smith-Schuster, MVS and Kadarious Toney? With a high ankle sprain?

 

 

Please. Everyone knows that Mahomes is one of the best QBs to ever play football. We may say things but its because we are all nauseated by insecure KC fans getting upset for even mentioning any other QB is near Mahomes level. Most of you guys live in some universe where Mahomes is so far on another level than anybody else. Thats simply not true.  Everyone knows he is a great QB but there are other great QBs playing the game right now too. 

 

Also if you wanna throw turnover crap out... Since the start of 2023 Mahomes is 1 turnover away from being tied for #1 in turnovers. He is also 5th in turnovers since 2020.

 

Now enough of your oh woe is me bs.

Edited November 25 by Scott7975

[Kelly to Allen]

1 hour ago, SaulGoodman said:

 

Mahomes has thrown INTs/fumbled at a way lower rate than Allen throughout their careers. 

 

Sure, Kelce was great in his prime. He also hasn't been in his prime for years. 

 

Does Mahomes need to win with zero talent around him to earn respect? Would you expect Allen to win the SB with a past his prime Kelce, a mediocre defense, weak running game, weak tackles, and a WR corps led by Juju Smith-Schuster, MVS and Kadarious Toney? With a high ankle sprain?

 

Everyone here respects mahomes. He's the best right now. He's already top 2-3 all time possibly 

 

Just think there's one QB that's possibly close to changing that conversation if he beats him in the playoffs and wins the Superbowl. 

 

Burrow is also someone who was close but his defense is terrible this year so idk. 

 

 

Edited November 25 by Kelly to Allen

[The Jokeman]

1 hour ago, SaulGoodman said:

 

Mahomes has thrown INTs/fumbled at a way lower rate than Allen throughout their careers. 

 

Sure, Kelce was great in his prime. He also hasn't been in his prime for years. 

 

Does Mahomes need to win with zero talent around him to earn respect? Would you expect Allen to win the SB with a past his prime Kelce, a mediocre defense, weak running game, weak tackles, and a WR corps led by Juju Smith-Schuster, MVS and Kadarious Toney? With a high ankle sprain?

 

Mahomes is as risky as Josh has been but fortunate in more not been picked off. Is he a better thrower than Josh? Yes but give Josh kudos as a better runner. I also think Patrick is calmer under pressure than Josh. Yet if put Patrick under same conditions that Josh started with not sure he produces at his same level conversely if put Josh in same circumstance Patrick came into think he exceeds his stats from here. 

[Kelly to Allen]

1 minute ago, The Jokeman said:

Mahomes is as risky as Josh has been but fortunate in more not been picked off. Is he a better thrower than Josh? Yes but give Josh kudos as a better runner. I also think Patrick is calmer under pressure than Josh. Yet if put Patrick under same conditions that Josh started with not sure he produces at his same level conversely if put Josh in same circumstance Patrick came into think he exceeds his stats from here. 

If you took out all of Allens rushing production he has still tied Peyton Manning in passing tds in his first 6 Years starting with less ints

 

Allen is 2nd in just passing touchdowns since 2019 ( like 12 behind mahomes), and 2nd in passing tds since 2020. ( He's like 6 passing touchdowns behind mahomes)

 

Allen has already tied Kelly in passing tds in the playoffs 

 

I have to check but I think Allen is like 3rd or 4th or tied for 4th in just playoff passing touchdowns in his first ten playoff games 

 

Allen has a passer rating of 98 in the regular season and playoffs since 2020

 

Mahomes is like 101 since 2020 in the regular season and playoffs 

[SaulGoodman]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

Super revisionist history 

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/38209757/nfl-preseason-power-rankings-2023-teams-coaches

 

2023 preseason number one 

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29711236/2020-nfl-power-rankings-1-32-preseason-poll-plus-hot-seat

 

2020 preseason number 1

 

2019 preseason number 2

 

2022 you were preseason 6 which is your lowest ranking 

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32051371/nfl-power-rankings-2021-preseason-1-32-poll-plus-players-coaches-general-managers-hot-seat

 

2021 #1

 

 

First, the SB winner from the prior year is almost always going to be their preseason #1, unless they lose a ton of talent. And teams that go deep will be ranked near the top. 

 

2nd, Mahomes is the biggest reason for those rankings. Not the supporting cast. It's not like they looked at the '22 roster and saw Smith-Schuster, MVS, CEH, no Tyreek Hill, and a bunch of rookies and thought "this is a loaded roster."

 

The Bills are always high in those rankings too, and in PFF roster rankings. 

[The Jokeman]

1 hour ago, Kelly to Allen said:

If you took out all of Allens rushing production he has still tied Peyton Manning in passing tds in his first 6 Years starting with less ints

 

Allen is 2nd in just passing touchdowns since 2019 ( like 12 behind mahomes), and 2nd in passing tds since 2020. ( He's like 6 passing touchdowns behind mahomes)

 

Allen has already tied Kelly in passing tds in the playoffs 

 

I have to check but I think Allen is like 3rd or 4th or tied for 4th in just playoff passing touchdowns in his first ten playoff games 

 

Allen has a passer rating of 98 in the regular season and playoffs since 2020

 

Mahomes is like 101 since 2020 in the regular season and playoffs 

As much as I love Josh he doesn't always make the play which guys like Mahomes and Brady for as both of them always calm and cool where at times Josh struggled. I mean if liken him to Manning think that's fair but think he's more of an Elway who many put behind Montana due to titles yet to me Elway's was the most complete QB to ever play in the NFL. 

Edited November 26 by The Jokeman

[SaulGoodman]

19 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Mahomes is as risky as Josh has been but fortunate in more not been picked off. Is he a better thrower than Josh? Yes but give Josh kudos as a better runner. I also think Patrick is calmer under pressure than Josh. Yet if put Patrick under same conditions that Josh started with not sure he produces at his same level conversely if put Josh in same circumstance Patrick came into think he exceeds his stats from here. 

 

Yeah, Allen's much more dangerous as a runner. No doubt he has a big advantage there. Mahomes has a knack for scrambling for first downs, but he's obviously not much of a threat in designed runs. Wish Andy wasn't scared to use him in QB sneaks though. 

[Kelly to Allen]

7 minutes ago, SaulGoodman said:

 

First, the SB winner from the prior year is almost always going to be their preseason #1, unless they lose a ton of talent. And teams that go deep will be ranked near the top. 

 

2nd, Mahomes is the biggest reason for those rankings. Not the supporting cast. It's not like they looked at the '22 roster and saw Smith-Schuster, MVS, CEH, no Tyreek Hill, and a bunch of rookies and thought "this is a loaded roster."

 

The Bills are always high in those rankings too, and in PFF roster rankings. 

 

 

What is your opinion of the 19 playoff game comeback vs the Texans. 

 

One of the greatest offensive performances I've ever seen by a QB imo. It almost felt like the Texans could've even been up 30 plus and it still wouldn't of mattered lol

 

What is your memory of that game and what were you thinking when KC fell behind 24-0.

 

That's the game that put mahomes in a different stratosphere imo

4 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

As much as I love Josh he doesn't always make the play which guys like Mahomes and Brady for as both of them always calm and cool where at times Josh struggled. I mean if liken him to Manning think that's fair but think he's more of an Elway who many put behind Montana due to titles yet to me Always was the most complete QB to ever play in the NFL. 

I agree. Allen has a lot of favre in him and I don't think that type of backyard sandlot style will ever go away. 

 

Big Ben is another close comp

 

Edited November 26 by Kelly to Allen

[Success]

2 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

As much as I love Josh he doesn't always make the play which guys like Mahomes and Brady for as both of them always calm and cool where at times Josh struggled. I mean if liken him to Manning think that's fair but think he's more of an Elway who many put behind Montana due to titles yet to me Always was the most complete QB to ever play in the NFL. 

 

Gotta disagree w/ this. Allen has been as clutch as any QB I've seen when a game is on the line - certainly in the playoffs, and even games like last week against KC.

 

Mahomes has gotten quite a few more big plays from his defense in the playoffs, and against the Bills - that's the biggest difference to me.

 

[Kelly to Allen]

2 minutes ago, Success said:

 

Gotta disagree w/ this. Allen has been as clutch as any QB I've seen when a game is on the line - certainly in the playoffs, and even games like last week against KC.

 

Mahomes has gotten quite a few more big plays from his defense in the playoffs, and against the Bills - that's the biggest difference to me.

 

Allen did " Elway the drive" TWICE  vs KC in the 13 seconds game. Pretty unreal clutch ability honestly 

Edited November 26 by Kelly to Allen

[Buffalo716]

13 minutes ago, SaulGoodman said:

 

First, the SB winner from the prior year is almost always going to be their preseason #1, unless they lose a ton of talent. And teams that go deep will be ranked near the top. 

 

2nd, Mahomes is the biggest reason for those rankings. Not the supporting cast. It's not like they looked at the '22 roster and saw Smith-Schuster, MVS, CEH, no Tyreek Hill, and a bunch of rookies and thought "this is a loaded roster."

 

The Bills are always high in those rankings too, and in PFF roster rankings. 

Football is the ultimate team game 

 

One player does not make a team... Patrick mahomes does not do it by himself 

 

You could say the same thing then that the bills are high just because of Josh Allen 

 

Cuz by no metric through 7 years has Josh Allen had a better supporting cast around him then Patrick mahomes 

 

Maybe it's evened out over the last couple of years... But going back to day one it's not even close whose head better football teams around them 

 

Nobody thinks Terry Bradshaw is better than Dan Marino just because he has four super bowls 

 

It's a team game 

 

Josh Allen hasn't played with one bona fide Hall of famer on offense... Patrick mahomes has Kelce and had hill... And had a better offensive line for majority of his career

 

Diggs is a really good football player not Hall of Fame... And he disappeared every post season and he was our offensive guy

 

 

 

 

Edited November 26 by Buffalo716

[Kelly to Allen]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

Football is the ultimate team game 

 

One player does not make a team... Patrick mahomes does not do it by himself 

 

You could say the same thing then that the bills are high just because of Josh Allen 

 

Cuz by no metric through 7 years has Josh Allen had a better supporting cast around him then Patrick mahomes 

 

Maybe it's evened out over the last couple of years... But going back to day one it's not even close whose head better football teams around them 

 

Nobody thinks Terry Bradshaw is better than Dan Marino just because he has four super bowls 

 

It's a team game 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bradshaw was better than Marino in the playoffs. Especially in bad weather. But I agree Marino was better.

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen said:

 

 

Bradshaw was better than Marino in the playoffs. Especially in bad weather. But I agree Marino was better.

30 touchdowns 26 pics in the playoffs for Bradshaw 

 

32 tds 24 picks for Marino

 

3800 yards for Bradshaw 

 

4500 for Marino 

 

Marino also did it in one less game...

 

Neither set the world on fire in the playoffs, but it's clear who had the better team

Edited November 26 by Buffalo716

[Billl]

26 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Mahomes is as risky as Josh has been but fortunate in more not been picked off. Is he a better thrower than Josh? Yes but give Josh kudos as a better runner. I also think Patrick is calmer under pressure than Josh. Yet if put Patrick under same conditions that Josh started with not sure he produces at his same level conversely if put Josh in same circumstance Patrick came into think he exceeds his stats from here. 

Josh gets credit for being the better runner because he runs in the regular season whereas Patrick doesn’t.  In the regular season game this season, Josh ran 12 times.  Patrick didn’t run once.  Last regular season, Josh ran 10 times.  Patrick ran once.  In 2022, Josh ran 11 times.  Patrick ran 4 times.  

 

In the postseason, Mahomes takes his game to a different level.  He’s got 110 yards rushing in the last 2 Super Bowls.  He had 69 yards and a TD in the 13 seconds game.  Josh puts on his cape in the regular season.  Patrick doesn’t break his out until all the chips are down.