Can we talk about Beane and Oline?

[Malazan]

35 minutes ago, No_Matter_What said:

People kept saying how he "criminally" neglected WR unit - which was partly true, but there was always an option to trade for someone, which is exactly what he did.

You *can* trade for a good WR. It's nearly impossible to pry a good lineman out from a team.

[Process]

One other thing that should be noted is how freakin durable these guys are. Brown is the first starter to miss a game going back to the beginning of last season. 29 straight games!

[FireChans]

37 minutes ago, No_Matter_What said:

I mean great job by Beane, Kromer and the players.

 

In 2022 season our starting Oline was Dawkins-Saffold-Morse-Bates-Brown and if I remember correctly, it was one of the worst units in the league. Then Beane made all the right decisions - got McGovern, Edwards, drafted Torrence and kept believing in Brown. Last year they were much improved. Then he let go aging Morse, moved McGovern to C, put Edwards to RG and whole line is still performing very well.

 

People kept saying how he "criminally" neglected WR unit - which was partly true, but there was always an option to trade for someone, which is exactly what he did.

 

Much less was said about great work he's done with Oline. And good OL > good WR corps if you ask me.

 

Not to mention there seems to be a good young depth in place with Van Demark, Anderson, Grable and VanPran Granger.

 

Beane has his misses (Dline investments, some extensions, some draft picks), but he nailed this one. These guys are one of the reasons we are 9-2.

Not sure this is the game to sing the praises of the OL.

 

They couldn’t get much of a push going in the run game at all. Now the KC DL is great so you can’t really hold that against them either but it is what it is.
 

Josh also was making them looking good by dodging Chris Jones every time he flattened Edwards, which happened at least a handful of times.

 

All in all, it was a solid performance against a great defense. And I think this OL has an argument as the best OL in Josh’s career here. I don’t think they are elite by any means however. 
 

Will probably be unpopular, but that’s my take.

Edited November 18 by FireChans

[Don Otreply]

An above average O-Line equals an above average offense, every single play’s outcome hinges on O-line execution, it is (like it or not) aside from the QB , the most important part of the offense. Beane’s perseverance in this regard has paid dividends. 
 

GO BILLS!!! 

[billsfan89]

The Bills offensive line turnaround was done without a lot of major resources invested in it. Looking at how each player was acquired outside of Dawkins and Brown who both predate Kromer's return in 2022 there wasn't a ton of big money or super high draft picks spent at the line. 

 

1. Connor McGovern- Mid-level free agent add
2. Torrence - Highest draft pick spent late 2nd round pick 59th overall 
3. David Edwards- Low level free agency add in 2023 signed to a lower mid-level 2 year deal this past off-season. 
4. Van Denmark- Was signed to the PS after the Colts waived him as a UDFA
5. Alec Anderson- UDFA from the Bills 
6. Will Clapp- Journeymen IOL Bills signed him on the cheap this past off-season
7. Sedrick Van Pran-Granger- 5th round pick, should have gone higher but still not a super heavy draft investment 
8. Richard Gouraige- UDFA 
9. Tylan Grable- 6th round pick 204 overall 

That's in addition to turning Spencer Brown around after he had a disastrous 2022 and turned him into a player who was resigned to a fairly big contract. Even more impressive that with the resigning of Brown all major pieces of the offensive line are signed up for 2025 with Anderson and Van Denmark being ERFA's and Will Clapp being the only true unrestricted free agent. Just a masterful job of building a unit and a program. 

[JGMcD2]

42 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And Grable. Who trust me is the best of the bunch.

Gunner, can you explain a little bit what you’ve seen with Grable and what you may project his career arc to look like? 

[Simon]

15 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Not sure this is the game to sing the praises of the OL.

 

They couldn’t get much of a push going in the run game at all. Now the KC DL is great so you can’t really hold that against them either but it is what it is.
 

Josh also was making them looking good by dodging Chris Jones every time he flattened Edwards, which happened at least a handful of times.

 

They were definitely getting pushed around up front in the earlier parts of the game.

I did think they got better as the game evolved though.

[ColoradoBills]

2 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

The Bills offensive line turnaround was done without a lot of major resources invested in it. Looking at how each player was acquired outside of Dawkins and Brown who both predate Kromer's return in 2022 there wasn't a ton of big money or super high draft picks spent at the line. 

 

1. Connor McGovern- Mid-level free agent add
2. Torrence - Highest draft pick spent late 2nd round pick 59th overall 
3. David Edwards- Low level free agency add in 2023 signed to a lower mid-level 2 year deal this past off-season. 
4. Van Denmark- Was signed to the PS after the Colts waived him as a UDFA
5. Alec Anderson- UDFA from the Bills 
6. Will Clapp- Journeymen IOL Bills signed him on the cheap this past off-season
7. Sedrick Van Pran-Granger- 5th round pick, should have gone higher but still not a super heavy draft investment 
8. Richard Gouraige- UDFA 
9. Tylan Grable- 6th round pick 204 overall 

That's in addition to turning Spencer Brown around after he had a disastrous 2022 and turned him into a player who was resigned to a fairly big contract. Even more impressive that with the resigning of Brown all major pieces of the offensive line are signed up for 2025 with Anderson and Van Denmark being ERFA's and Will Clapp being the only true unrestricted free agent. Just a masterful job of building a unit and a program. 

 

Great post explaining how this OL got to where it is.  Currently no need to invest more but keep looking for some more of these late 3rd day picks

and UDFAs.  It just may get Beane in a position to trade a depth guy away for a mid-rounder.

[Joe Mama]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

That "re-sign Bates and sign Saffold" offseason was depressing. I hated it at the time and predictably it failed. 

 

But we signed Bobby Hart!!!

[BruceVilanch]

10 minutes ago, Joe Mama said:

But we signed Bobby Hart!!!

[Buffalo716]

1 hour ago, billsfan89 said:

The Bills offensive line turnaround was done without a lot of major resources invested in it. Looking at how each player was acquired outside of Dawkins and Brown who both predate Kromer's return in 2022 there wasn't a ton of big money or super high draft picks spent at the line. 

 

1. Connor McGovern- Mid-level free agent add
2. Torrence - Highest draft pick spent late 2nd round pick 59th overall 
3. David Edwards- Low level free agency add in 2023 signed to a lower mid-level 2 year deal this past off-season. 
4. Van Denmark- Was signed to the PS after the Colts waived him as a UDFA
5. Alec Anderson- UDFA from the Bills 
6. Will Clapp- Journeymen IOL Bills signed him on the cheap this past off-season
7. Sedrick Van Pran-Granger- 5th round pick, should have gone higher but still not a super heavy draft investment 
8. Richard Gouraige- UDFA 
9. Tylan Grable- 6th round pick 204 overall 

That's in addition to turning Spencer Brown around after he had a disastrous 2022 and turned him into a player who was resigned to a fairly big contract. Even more impressive that with the resigning of Brown all major pieces of the offensive line are signed up for 2025 with Anderson and Van Denmark being ERFA's and Will Clapp being the only true unrestricted free agent. Just a masterful job of building a unit and a program. 

Dawkins was early second round.. Torrance was second round 

Spencer Brown is the most athletic tackle in NFL history third round 

 

Connor was the third round pick of the cowboys 

 

While we don't have any crazy 70 million contracts we do above average pieces everywhere which is more than most the rest of the League can say

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

41 minutes ago, Low Positive said:

This is as opposed to the Bengals and Jets, who tried to buy an OL in FA.

 

Buffalo did in 2018 - 

 

Allens rookie year: Dawkins - Ducasse - Bodine - Miller - Mills

Allens second year: Dawkins - Spain - Morse - Feliciano - Ford

 

The list of random dudes playing guard here is long and mostly bad.  But they seemed to prioritize getting young talent at the position the last couple seasons with torrence, and have utilized the practice squad to develop some home grown talent in players like Van Demark and Anderson.  They drafted a future piece at center, and another at tackle 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

2 hours ago, Low Positive said:

This is as opposed to the Bengals and Jets, who tried to buy an OL in FA.

The chiefs have blown so many different attempts to improve both tackle positions too lol that feels like a big reason why they no longer exist in their own tier anymore 

[CookieG]

McGovern surprised me in his run blocking.  He was always known more of a pass protector, of which he was pretty good..in Dallas.  

 

Cybo fell into their laps. He was the best IOL in the draft that year and did great during the Senior Bowl practices.   There's no way he should have fallen to the bottom of the 2nd.  Based on what the OL was like the year before, Josh might have pummeled Brandon if he wasn't drafted.

 

Brown was a tough one going into last year.  I always liked the pick, based on his athleticism.  But a year long back problem, at his young age and the way he played the year prior...it was a risk.  But it has been working.

 

Keep in mind that in OTAs before the 2023 season, Dawkins was up to around 370.  He could have easily eaten his way out of the league.  Instead, he went on the Chipotle diet and dropped 40lbs before the season began.  Its paid dividends.  

 

Edwards- meh. He might not be a huge hole, but he's the weak link.  But its easier to cover up one weak link as opposed to 3, like they had to do in 2022.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, JGMcD2 said:

Gunner, can you explain a little bit what you’ve seen with Grable and what you may project his career arc to look like? 

 

I think the athleticism, size and strength stand out. Huge guy, quick feet, good bend, has the physical traits you look for. Late conversion to playing tackle but his hands were really impressive he fires them out and wins reps by getting first contact. As I understood it the knock on him coming out was his rawness, especially in the run game where he is liable to take bad angles. Have to say in the pre-season that weakness really didn't show up. I think he is someone who could be a starting tackle in the NFL with a bit of seasoning. Possibly as early as next year. He likely won't get that chance here with Dion and Spencer locked in but I wonder in 2026.... maybe. Dion would be 32, is he someone who is gonna play well into his 30s? Maybe, maybe not. 

[Logic]

I have to admit that after the Bills had a good O-line last year, I was pretty irritated at Beane for trying to "fix what wasn't broke" by letting Mitch Morse go and moving McGovern to center.

Lo and behold, that was the right decision. Our O-line is even BETTER this year, particularly in the run game, and I think moving from Morse (a finesse center) to McGovern (more of a classic mauler) is a big reason why.

For not the first and certainly not the last time, Beane was right and I was wrong.

Additionally: Aaron Kromer. Oh my GOSH that dude has made a difference! Sure, he's not to be trusted with beach chairs, but the man can coach the hell out of an offensive line!

[uninja]

2 hours ago, MJS said:

I always liked Bates, personally. But partly it was with the hope that he would grow and develop. I guess that didn't happen.

I think he had more than he could handle with Brown being so raw coming in.

[Warcodered]

25 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think the athleticism, size and strength stand out. Huge guy, quick feet, good bend, has the physical traits you look for. Late conversion to playing tackle but his hands were really impressive he fires them out and wins reps by getting first contact. As I understood it the knock on him coming out was his rawness, especially in the run game where he is liable to take bad angles. Have to say in the pre-season that weakness really didn't show up. I think he is someone who could be a starting tackle in the NFL with a bit of seasoning. Possibly as early as next year. He likely won't get that chance here with Dion and Spencer locked in but I wonder in 2026.... maybe. Dion would be 32, is he someone who is gonna play well into his 30s? Maybe, maybe not. 

Love Dion but Franchise QBs can play for a long ass time and it would be lovely to have that next LT lined up already.

[SoTier]

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

Not sure this is the game to sing the praises of the OL.

 

They couldn’t get much of a push going in the run game at all. Now the KC DL is great so you can’t really hold that against them either but it is what it is.
 

Josh also was making them looking good by dodging Chris Jones every time he flattened Edwards, which happened at least a handful of times.

 

All in all, it was a solid performance against a great defense. And I think this OL has an argument as the best OL in Josh’s career here. I don’t think they are elite by any means however. 
 

Will probably be unpopular, but that’s my take.

 

KC's D is really tough against the run, so I wasn't surprised that the running game didn't do much.  OTOH, they did a good job in the red zone, and that translates into more TDs than FGs.  On Cook's second TD, they opened a huge hole for him straight to the EZ.

 

[Fixxxer]

OL has been a steady group this year, only bad game was the Ravens game in pass pro, they didn't handle the pressure well that day. It has been a deep group with some young intriguing talent, like Van Pran and Gouragie.

I had some doubts regarding McGovern handling Center duties, but he has been a reliable force in the middle so far. O'Cyrus had a great rookie year last year and though he struggles at times while still developing his game and body, he had a key block on Chris Jones on that MVP TD run by Josh.

 

 

 

Shout out to Rick Bates, who suffered a concussion against the Packers, hopefully he's ok.