Gabe Davis out for season.

[BillsVet]

2 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

 It's been this way since Daboll, who was actually the worst offender in terms of 'I'm out of ideas here, call QBpower/QBsweep'

 

Daboll is who he is.  What he's not is the guy defining their overall football philosophy and establishing their correlating roster priorities.

 

The cost of not having a top receiver group is that your QB is asked to do more and in Buffalo that's Josh running.  He becomes the default option to make up for personnel deficiencies which, as we learned in the Baltimore and Houston games, isn't himself enough.

 

Maybe retaining Cooper, seeing Coleman improve combined with a healthy Shakir and Kincaid are that group.  But if Josh is carrying the ball more, that's largely because their receivers aren't good enough.  

[TBBills Fan]

On 11/20/2024 at 2:19 PM, Sweats said:

 

 

 

I'm just throwing this out there, but he might be in a little better shape than you......

You have never met @Irvin person. 

 

The man is a beast. 

[Thurman#1]

15 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Well Sean McDermott and Josh Allen concur that they were compelled to go for it on 4th and 2 because they had "seen this movie before".    So they knew it was a terrible idea to give Mahomes back the ball with 2 minutes and timeouts in hand even if they were up 5 with Bass kicking a FG there.   Stopping Mahomes from scoring one TD playing 4 down offense with their entire playbook at their disposal is not what you want to have to do.

 

As for it being nonsense to say Allen has taken a beating........he injured left his hand running in the opener,  he had his head bounced off the turf and likely been concussed twice in the Baltimore/Houston games.   And injured his throwing hand and made another medical tent trip late in the KC game.   And the play before the INT to Knox he got absolutely hammered running the ball.  All of this while out of the pocket or trying to extend plays.   He's never had this many violent impacts in any season and he still has 6 games to go.  

 

 

Moving the goalposts isn't just a habit with you, is it? It's apparently more of a lifestyle. And you're doing it again here for the milliontyleventh time. Twice in one post.

 

It's sad that I have to remind you what you said, but clearly I do. You said:

 

       

On 11/20/2024 at 6:02 AM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

If he doesn't get that first down/TD at the end they lose and we know it.   

 

   

 

That's what I disagreed with. Because it was pretty obviously treating a pretty dumb opinion as a fact.

 

None of what you posted here is even slightly relevant to whether or not "we all know" that if Allen hadn't scored a TD on that play we'd have lost.

 

McDermott did say he "had seen that movie before." But that only means that he thought going for it on 4th and two at the KC 26 with a two point lead was a better idea than kicking the field goal. That it enhanced their chances of winning. NOT that "if he doesn't get that first down/TD at the end they lose and we know it." Again, your interpretation here is dumb.

 

And you didn't say just that he was taking a beating. Nobody would argue that. Every QB does. It's part of the game. You tried to say that this year was different. That was (DUH!) what I disagreed with, and as usual you moved the goalposts and then ignored my actual point.

 

What you actually said was this:

 

On 11/20/2024 at 6:02 AM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

That chaotic football is entertaining but the guy has taken a beating this season they need to get the passing game in order down the stretch. 

 

 

Dumb.

 

He's not taking more of a beating this season. Less, if anything. He's getting the ball out faster, taking fewer hits in the pocket, and he's running about as much as he consistently has. He's not being more chaotic this year than he has in the past. Again, less if anything. He's taking what the defense gives him a lot more than he has in the past.

 

The passing game is in damn good shape, particularly for a unit dealing with so many injuries to receivers (Keon, Amari) and Kincaid as well.

 

 

Edited November 22 by Thurman#1

[BADOLBILZ]

10 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Moving the goalposts isn't just a habit with you, is it? It's apparently more of a lifestyle. And you're doing it again here for the milliontyleventh time. Twice in one post.

 

It's sad that I have to remind you what you said, but clearly I do. You said:

 

       

   

 

That's what I disagreed with. Because it was pretty obviously treating a pretty dumb opinion as a fact.

 

None of what you posted here is even slightly relevant to whether or not "we all know" that if Allen hadn't scored a TD on that play we'd have lost.

 

McDermott did say he "had seen that movie before." But that only means that he thought going for it on 4th and two at the KC 26 with a two point lead was a better idea than kicking the field goal. That it enhanced their chances of winning. NOT that "if he doesn't get that first down/TD at the end they lose and we know it." Again, your interpretation here is dumb.

 

And you didn't say just that he was taking a beating. Nobody would argue that. Every QB does. It's part of the game. You tried to say that this year was different. That was (DUH!) what I disagreed with, and as usual you moved the goalposts and then ignored my actual point.

 

What you actually said was this:

 

 

Dumb.

 

He's not taking more of a beating this season. Less, if anything. He's getting the ball out faster, taking fewer hits in the pocket, and he's running about as much as he consistently has. He's not being more chaotic this year than he has in the past. Again, less if anything. He's taking what the defense gives him a lot more than he has in the past.

 

The passing game is in damn good shape, particularly for a unit dealing with so many injuries to receivers (Keon, Amari) and Kincaid as well.

 

 

 

 

I have no problem reconciling the fact that it's not good when Allen needs to run the ball 12 times in a game with the reality that on 4th and 2 on the 26 late in the game when the defense has confused him he has to run the ball to preserve victory.    In what way are those opinions conflicted or a move of some goal post?   It's an unintelligible conclusion on your part.

 

And no,  McDermott wasn't saying he'd see this movie before in reference to Bass missing a kick at the end of the game.   That's ridiculous to suggest.  A missed kick late has only factored into the decision in 1 of the 9 games that McD has coached against Reid.   The reference was to the Chiefs leading late scoring drives against everyone they play if given the opportunity.   The objective was to put the game out of reach with a TD or by running the clock out.    

[Chandler#81]

That’s a real drop off. Juss kidding. A WR who can’t catch is worthless..🤷‍♂️

[ProcessTruster]

On 11/18/2024 at 2:31 PM, Virgil said:

The exchange of Hollins for Davis, both output and contract is a genius move by Beane. 

one of the many.. 

[Beck Water]

3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

I have no problem reconciling the fact that it's not good when Allen needs to run the ball 12 times in a game with the reality that on 4th and 2 on the 26 late in the game when the defense has confused him he has to run the ball to preserve victory.   

 

Funny how none of the analysts, including those who have been breaking down tape for decades like Cosell or have played QB in the NFL like Simms or Orlovsky, seem to think the defense "confused" Allen.  Allen and Brady both said he had a check to a zone beater play;  someone here pointed out Allen shifted the protections before the play, indicating he recognized the original called play wouldn't work with the D he saw, and made the decision to run.  Allen could also have converted the 1st down and slid.  Just how do you define "reality"?

The reality is that this is the first game this season when Allen has run the ball 12 times.  In fact, to this point in the season, Allen's rushes per game are a career low for him, 6.1 A/G - down from the career high 7.8 A/G he had under Dorsey in 2022 or the 7.3 he had under Daboll in 2021.

He's also on-pace for a career low in QB pressures (on pace for 99, vs last year 126 or 184 in 2021), sacks ( on pace for 20, previous low last year, 24), and close to a career low of QB hits (on pace for 43, previous low 40).  

[djp14150]

Can we just rename the doll Chad?

[Pete]

4 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

That’s a real drop off. Juss kidding. A WR who can’t catch is worthless..🤷‍♂️

Gabe drops the mic.  Literally, not metaphorically.  Like Gabe dropped the mic on his toe

[Kelly to Allen]

On 11/21/2024 at 2:21 PM, BillsVet said:

 

Daboll is who he is.  What he's not is the guy defining their overall football philosophy and establishing their correlating roster priorities.

 

The cost of not having a top receiver group is that your QB is asked to do more and in Buffalo that's Josh running.  He becomes the default option to make up for personnel deficiencies which, as we learned in the Baltimore and Houston games, isn't himself enough.

 

Maybe retaining Cooper, seeing Coleman improve combined with a healthy Shakir and Kincaid are that group.  But if Josh is carrying the ball more, that's largely because their receivers aren't good enough.  

The bills wrs were hurt in the Baltimore/ Texans game. Plus no Cooper Plus Coleman now has more experience. I think even Kincaid got poked in the eye. 

Edited November 22 by Kelly to Allen

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Funny how none of the analysts, including those who have been breaking down tape for decades like Cosell or have played QB in the NFL like Simms or Orlovsky, seem to think the defense "confused" Allen.  Allen and Brady both said he had a check to a zone beater play;  someone here pointed out Allen shifted the protections before the play, indicating he recognized the original called play wouldn't work with the D he saw, and made the decision to run.  Allen could also have converted the 1st down and slid.  Just how do you define "reality"?

The reality is that this is the first game this season when Allen has run the ball 12 times.  In fact, to this point in the season, Allen's rushes per game are a career low for him, 6.1 A/G - down from the career high 7.8 A/G he had under Dorsey in 2022 or the 7.3 he had under Daboll in 2021.

He's also on-pace for a career low in QB pressures (on pace for 99, vs last year 126 or 184 in 2021), sacks ( on pace for 20, previous low last year, 24), and close to a career low of QB hits (on pace for 43, previous low 40).  

 

 

So if I say @Thurman#1 thinks Allen should run the ball 20 times per game are you going to blindly chase that strawman too?

 

I never said Allen shouldn't run the ball.   I also never said he had run the ball more this season.   I said he had to run more(20 times) over the last two games because the passing game wasn't as efficient as it had been when they first acquired Cooper and the corps was whole.   Do you disagree with that?   If so do you expect 8-12 Allen rushes per game to be the norm with Cooper, Coleman and Kincaid all back?   

 

I also said he's taken his worse beating in a season so far and the majority of that punishment has been when he's had to leave the pocket.    If you don't think so tell me the other seasons he's had concussions in 2 straight games.   

 

[Cash]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

So if I say @Thurman#1 thinks Allen should run the ball 20 times per game are you going to blindly chase that strawman too?

 

I never said Allen shouldn't run the ball.   I also never said he had run the ball more this season.   I said he had to run more(20 times) over the last two games because the passing game wasn't as efficient as it had been when they first acquired Cooper and the corps was whole.   Do you disagree with that?   If so do you expect 8-12 Allen rushes per game to be the norm with Cooper, Coleman and Kincaid all back?   

 

I also said he's taken his worse beating in a season so far and the majority of that punishment has been when he's had to leave the pocket.    If you don't think so tell me the other seasons he's had concussions in 2 straight games.   

 

What is your source for that last bit? Is it your usual source of, “take my word for it, I’m old and therefore everyone else is stupid”?

[BADOLBILZ]

38 minutes ago, Cash said:

What is your source for that last bit? Is it your usual source of, “take my word for it, I’m old and therefore everyone else is stupid”?

 

My source is I've played violent sports and been concussed.    The one in the Houston game was an absolute no-doubt brain stem bender that only a complete idiot would refute.   But the one in the Ravens game was the also a typical hit back of head on ground with neck snap and you open your eyes and it's like the sun is a foot from your face.   See his facial reactions after he gets buried.   That's what all the squinting and trauma around the eyes is.  

 

 

 

[gonzo1105]

Idk how we ended up on Allen but I asked the OTC comp pick guy if the Dodson release and Davis being out for the year affects their comp picks and he stated it’s likely that Davis 4th rounder gets demoted to a 5th rounder and Dodson won’t affect it at all 

[Thurman#1]

15 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I have no problem reconciling the fact that it's not good when Allen needs to run the ball 12 times in a game with the reality that on 4th and 2 on the 26 late in the game when the defense has confused him he has to run the ball to preserve victory.    In what way are those opinions conflicted or a move of some goal post?   It's an unintelligible conclusion on your part.

 

And no,  McDermott wasn't saying he'd see this movie before in reference to Bass missing a kick at the end of the game.   That's ridiculous to suggest.  A missed kick late has only factored into the decision in 1 of the 9 games that McD has coached against Reid.   The reference was to the Chiefs leading late scoring drives against everyone they play if given the opportunity.   The objective was to put the game out of reach with a TD or by running the clock out.    

 

 

Nonsense. Allen didn't "need" to run the ball 12 times. As I already pointed out, that's what he does against KC. He had a bunch of called runs in that game an he was happy to take off several other times. He loves it. He does it against KC every time. Here's the proof, from about 15 posts back:

 

On 11/21/2024 at 6:43 PM, Thurman#1 said:

 

And by the way, Josh always runs more in big games. He can't suppress his competitive juices. This is what Josh's runs against KC actually looks like over the years:

 

2021  11 carries

2022 12 carries

2023 10 carries

2024 12 carries

 

You see 12 carries this year and your confirmation bias leads you to blame the receivers. That's on you.

 

This isn't Josh trying to compensate. 12 runs against KC is just Josh being Josh.

 

 

 

He didn't "need to run the ball 12 times in a game." The idea's dumb. This is what he does against KC, and in big games generally.

 

And there's absolutely zero reason to think that, as you said, "the defense has confused him" on that big play. Zero. They did drop into zone but as Josh said, when that happens he has to make a play, which is what any QB would have to do. "Make a play," can be throwing a pass or running.

 

What actually happened is that Chris Jones puts his head inside of Torrance, allowing Torrance to block him inside, while Karlaftis at DE has totally given up the edge and rushed deep and wide leaving a very large, well-blocked hole in front of Allen that he's already headed towards. Give Allen a huge opening like that on a 4th and two and he'll take it. He loves taking things into his own hands, as well he should.

 

Once he's through that massive hole there are two Chiefs on the right side who have a slight chance to reach him before he gets the first down and each is covering a receiver he'd leave open if he went all-out to tackle Josh. Once through that big hole Josh is either going to have a receiver alone or enough space to get the 1st by run pretty easily.

 

Zero reason to think he was confused. He diagnosed it well and handled the situation perfectly. 

 

If Karlaftis had better stayed in his lane Josh might have had to do something different, maybe stayed back and thrown, probably to Samuel, but we'll never know for sure, as the receivers and coverage guys see Josh breaking free and react, changing the look of the play.

 

As for your ridiculous argument that, "McDermott wasn't saying he'd see this movie before in reference to Bass missing a kick at the end of the game," yes, you're right, it's not about that. Nor did I say that it was, or anything like it. 

 

Gotta give you credit there, you didn't move the goal posts. Instead you created a straw man, saying I said something I never did. 

 

If only straw men were more logically sound than moved goal posts.

 

Yes, you're right that "the objective was to put the game out of reach with a TD or running the clock out." Duh. The alternative was to kick the field goal. McDermott chose to go for it because he felt it was the option that gave him the best chance of success.

 

Yet again, your original statement was that, "If he doesn't get that first down/TD at the end they lose and we all know it." That statement is what I said was categorically wrong. And you haven't once defended it, (not that it's defensible), instead going on about how Josh was confused and he had to run the ball 12 times and various other attempts at moving the goal posts.

 

The fact is that the Bills stopped Mahomes on drives inside the 2-minute warning with the Bills up by four or less points to win the last two times we played them during the season, as I pointed out before.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 23 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

My source is I've played violent sports and been concussed.    The one in the Houston game was an absolute no-doubt brain stem bender that only a complete idiot would refute.   But the one in the Ravens game was the also a typical hit back of head on ground with neck snap and you open your eyes and it's like the sun is a foot from your face.   See his facial reactions after he gets buried.   That's what all the squinting and trauma around the eyes is.  

 

 

 

 

 

"My sources is I've played violent sports and been concussed," you say.

 

Wow, great point!!! By that logic, around 20 million or so Americans who've played violent sports and been concussed (which would include me) know better than the doctors who actually went through this thing called medical school and then put in years of practice. And then examined Josh Allen.

 

Sheer dumbosity. Hard to believe.

 

What you've got there is an uniformed guess. And nothing but that. Pure confirmation bias. 

 

 

 

[Nelius]

Badol acting like a Josh Allen level athlete is uh, new territory lmao. Thurman got this dude on the ropes 

[Don Otreply]

On 11/21/2024 at 2:21 PM, BillsVet said:

 

Daboll is who he is.  What he's not is the guy defining their overall football philosophy and establishing their correlating roster priorities.

 

The cost of not having a top receiver group is that your QB is asked to do more and in Buffalo that's Josh running.  He becomes the default option to make up for personnel deficiencies which, as we learned in the Baltimore and Houston games, isn't himself enough.

 

Maybe retaining Cooper, seeing Coleman improve combined with a healthy Shakir and Kincaid are that group.  But if Josh is carrying the ball more, that's largely because their receivers aren't good enough.  

But is he by the numbers, carrying the ball more? His last four KC games he has run the ball between 10 & 12 times, so…, 
 

When Allen has run this season he has been sliding and taking less hard hits, in fact some here have spouted off that because Allen is being smarter, that he has lost a step, as silly as that is, 

[Kelly to Allen]

Would we bring Gabe back as wr 4 if he gets released from the jags? He is perfect in that role similar to 20/21 seasons and perfect depth to step into wr3 if someone gets hurt. He's only 26 next year 

 

I would do that and draft someone. 

 

I'm kinda bias because I always liked Gabe. Id rather have Big Game Gabe instead of Diggs. 

Edited November 23 by Kelly to Allen

[BillsVet]

2 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

But is he by the numbers, carrying the ball more? His last four KC games he has run the ball between 10 & 12 times, so…, 
 

When Allen has run this season he has been sliding and taking less hard hits, in fact some here have spouted off that because Allen is being smarter, that he has lost a step, as silly as that is, 

 

Less hits?  Come on dude.  The human body cannot take the head impacts Josh has taken (1 is too much) without some kind of lingering issues eventually. Even when it's him shaking his hand after a run like versus Arizona or in the Chiefs game it's disconcerting.

 

And that's because they didn't resource the offense appropriately, which became apparent after Week 5's loss in Houston.  

 

Point is, the HC and OC all too often use their quarter-billion dollar asset sometimes like he's just another player when in fact he's the difference between being a top-2 seed and picking in the top-5.