Is the "new" Curtis Samuel here to stay?

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

3 hours ago, Bookie Man said:

Let’s see him on a jet sweep eh!?

This. We signed Samuel to be sort of a Deebo-lite, not a traditional receiver. He had a great game yesterday, but wondering when he is going to be used as intended. 

[NickelCity]

3 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Addition by subtraction is a cliche but in this case it's true. The passing offense becamse much more efficient and less mistake-prone ever since Brady mostly phased Davis out of the target share last year, and it's gotten even better this year with him out of the lineup. I was beyond sick of the goofy mistakes and constant miscommunications leading to a bunch interceptable passes. Based on his performance in Jacksonville this year it turns out Davis is even worse than I thought.

 

I couldn't agree more. Gabe Davis is a glaring example of addition by subtraction, for this team.

Edited November 18 by NickelCity

[Magox]

There are still 6 games to go where injuries could end up derailing the team similar to the string of injuries to our defense did last year, with that said everything just seems to be falling right in place.

 

You have an ascending Curtis Samuel

Milano will be back soon

Keon will be back and he was really beginning to come into his own

You have Kincaid coming back

Spencer Brown will be back

DeWayne Carter who was really coming into his own.

 

And there are plenty of games for them to get reintegrated with the team.   If we can be lucky and fortunate to have hardly any other injuries then this team has a real shot at winning it all.

[BillsFanForever19]

I think it will be. When Kincaid and Coleman return, he may not be called on as much as he was yesterday. But I think it was mainly an injury hampering him that seems to be doing much better as he's been showing quickness he wasn't before. I also think Josh (like most QB's) needs to develop trust and chemistry with a WR. And I think he hadn't developed that yet with Samuel. Again, that might have just had to do with the injury. But it seems in the past couple weeks, Josh has developed some of that trust and chemistry with Samuel. 

[RichRiderBills]

Liked what I saw from him yesterday! 

 

This WR corps is going to be a tempered bunch by seasons end. I think so much will have come around by the playoffs. 

 

Love the group...excited about everyone. 

[BigAl2526]

The biggest obstacle to Samuel having significant numbers of receptions is probably the number of quality receivers on the roster.  Shakir is going to continue getting targets.  So is Amari Cooper.  Hopefully Keon Coleman continues of his upward trend and continues to get opportunities to contribute.  And, of course, a healthy Kincaid is going to have his catches.  Counting Kincaid, Samuel is likely the fifth receiver for the Bills and the fifth receiver rarely gets many opportunities when the guys ahead of him are healthy.

[Alphadawg7]

I think the better question is are they going to continue to use him like they did last night and will Allen also look his way to give him more opportunities.    

 

Honestly, Allen was not having that great of a game even though he ended in an epic way that was like an MVP type moment.  On the INT, he had Samuel down field for an easy walk in TD who had 10 yards separation on the defender and Allen didn't even see him.  There were other plays where there were opportunities that could have been seized with Samuel and Allen just didn't make it happen.  

 

Allen has left a lot out on the field this year.  Luckily he is so good that he has done enough most games to mask or make up for that.  But come playoff time, we need him to be better and maximize those opportunities.  Too often he makes a poor decision, poor throw to a wide open guy, or just flat out doesn't see open windows.  Many of those were drive killing moments or moments we could have added points but didn't.

 

If we are going to win a SB this year, we need Allen to clean more of that up.  Best part is Allen knows it, he owned it on the field right after the game stating he had several balls he wish he had back.  I am massive Allen fan, so don't get it twisted, I love Allen and think is unquestionably right there with Mahomes for best in the league.  But that doesn't mean he doesn't have to do some things better either or clean some things up.  

[Logic]

6 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I think the better question is are they going to continue to use him like they did last night and will Allen also look his way to give him more opportunities.    

 

Honestly, Allen was not having that great of a game even though he ended in an epic way that was like an MVP type moment.  On the INT, he had Samuel down field for an easy walk in TD who had 10 yards separation on the defender and Allen didn't even see him.  There were other plays where there were opportunities that could have been seized with Samuel and Allen just didn't make it happen.  

 

Allen has left a lot out on the field this year.  Luckily he is so good that he has done enough most games to mask or make up for that.  But come playoff time, we need him to be better and maximize those opportunities.  Too often he makes a poor decision, poor throw to a wide open guy, or just flat out doesn't see open windows.  Many of those were drive killing moments or moments we could have added points but didn't.

 

If we are going to win a SB this year, we need Allen to clean more of that up.  Best part is Allen knows it, he owned it on the field right after the game stating he had several balls he wish he had back.  I am massive Allen fan, so don't get it twisted, I love Allen and think is unquestionably right there with Mahomes for best in the league.  But that doesn't mean he doesn't have to do some things better either or clean some things up.  

I disagree that usage and quarterback play are the factors primarily to blame for Samuel's lack of production so far this season -- at least not in a vacuum -- which is what this post makes it sound like.

Between the way Samuel looked to the naked eye throughout much of the year and McDermott's post-game comments about Samuel needing to get his confidence back and remember that he's a good football player, I believe something more has been going on. My guess would be that Samuel's lingering turf toe hasn't allowed him to fully be himself, which has gotten into his head, and has also changed the way Brady uses him and the degree to which he is relied upon in this offense.

While I agree that it will be incumbent upon the offensive coordinator to continue to find meaningful ways to get Samuel involved, and incumbent upon the quarterback to trust Samuel and to look for him in big moments, I ALSO think that both of those things will have a better chance of happening if whatever has ailed Samuel (be it physical, mental, or both) is behind him.

So...yes I think it's coaching and quarterbacking, but I also don't think Samuel himself should be absolved of responsibility for his lack of production this year.

Edited November 18 by Logic

[Beast]

I’m still waiting for a jet sweep with this guy.

[TFBillsfan]

1 hour ago, Magox said:

There are still 6 games to go where injuries could end up derailing the team similar to the string of injuries to our defense did last year, with that said everything just seems to be falling right in place.

 

You have an ascending Curtis Samuel

Milano will be back soon

Keon will be back and he was really beginning to come into his own

You have Kincaid coming back

Spencer Brown will be back

DeWayne Carter who was really coming into his own.

 

And there are plenty of games for them to get reintegrated with the team.   If we can be lucky and fortunate to have hardly any other injuries then this team has a real shot at winning it all.

Don’t forget about Smoot!

[Alphadawg7]

38 minutes ago, Logic said:

I disagree that usage and quarterback play are the factors primarily to blame for Samuel's lack of production so far this season -- at least not in a vacuum -- which is what this post makes it sound like.

Between the way Samuel looked to the naked eye throughout much of the year and McDermott's post-game comments about Samuel needing to get his confidence back and remember that he's a good football player, I believe something more has been going on. My guess would be that Samuel's lingering turf toe hasn't allowed him to fully be himself, which has gotten into his head, and has also changed the way Brady uses him and the degree to which he is relied upon in this offense.

While I agree that it will be incumbent upon the offensive coordinator to continue to find meaningful ways to get Samuel involved, and incumbent upon the quarterback to trust Samuel and to look for him in big moments, I ALSO think that both of those things will have a better chance of happening if whatever has ailed Samuel (be it physical, mental, or both) is behind him.

So...yes I think it's coaching and quarterbacking, but I also don't think Samuel himself should be absolved of responsibility for his lack of production this year.

 

I wasn't trying to make it sound like it was all everyone elses fault.  I am saying its pretty evident Allen isn't looking at him much as there have been a number of times Samuel was open and Allen went somewhere less optimal.  They also did use Samuel more aggressively yesterday too.  

 

So will we continue to see Samuel used in similar fashion moving forward is part of the equation, and a bigger part of the equation IMHO.  Or was his usage more a just a function of who was not on the field this week.  

 

 

[Beck Water]

8 hours ago, Logic said:

We all heard the breathless training camp reports about how big a part of the offense Curtis Samuel looked like he was going to be.

We all watched through the first 9 weeks as he was a total afterthought.

Last week, and then even more so last night, Curtis Samuel made plays. Both his usage and his productivity vastly improved. He ran legitimate wide receiver routes and made legitimate plays in the passing game.

So what's the deal? Did his turf toe injury just finally heal up? Did the OC just finally start using him more intelligently? Were the Bills just FORCED to use him because of injuries to other receivers? A combination of these things?

Whatever the case may be, if this new and more productive and versatile Curtis Samuel is here to stay, it will mean great things going forward. Cooper, Coleman, Shakir, Samuel, Hollins could actually wind up being a very strong, versatile, and deep WR corps over the stretch run of the season into the playoffs.

Here's hoping Samuel has "arrived" on this offense and this isn't just a short term mirage.

 

It's a good question as to why.TBN article

Couple of key quotes:

Quote

The Bills needed a big effort from Samuel because they were down two of their top playmakers. Tight end Dalton Kincaid (knee) and rookie receiver Keon Coleman (wrist) were out because of injury.

“I stayed with it each and every week, never got frustrated,” Samuel said. “I knew the time was going to come at some point. You know, I’m a team guy. It was all about winning.”

 

Quote

There were hints a game like this was coming. Samuel was targeted eight times in last

week’s win at Indianapolis, making four catches for 35 yards.

He really broke out against the Chiefs, scoring a critical touchdown in the fourth quarter that extended the Bills’ lead to 23-14 following the extra point.

“I know Curtis hasn’t had the amount of success that he’s wanted in this offense so far, but he’s been as consistent as possible. He works his tail off,” quarterback Josh Allen said. “I trust him implicitly. ...

“Sometimes it’s your day, and we’re going to have to utilize him going forward, because when he has the ball in his hands, he’s a very, very dangerous playmaker. I just commend him for how hard he’s been working and the composure that he’s had throughout the entire season.”

So, good question as to what's been going on.  Has Brady not been designing plays to go to him?  Does Allen prefer to trust Kincaid or Coleman?  Or has Samuel been "working his way healthy", which Shakir kind of implies:

 

Quote

Like Allen, fellow wide receiver Khalil Shakir – who, by the way, had a team-high eight receptions and 70 yards – commended Samuel for not letting a quiet early season bring him down.

“It’s dope to see the work this dude puts in every single week, every single day, every single practice,” Shakir said. “Training room, out on the field after ... just all the work he puts in. It’s dope to see it pay off.”

Training room...out on the field after....don't think that's the routine unless a player has some kind of injury bothering him.

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I think the better question is are they going to continue to use him like they did last night and will Allen also look his way to give him more opportunities.    

 

Honestly, Allen was not having that great of a game even though he ended in an epic way that was like an MVP type moment.  On the INT, he had Samuel down field for an easy walk in TD who had 10 yards separation on the defender and Allen didn't even see him.  There were other plays where there were opportunities that could have been seized with Samuel and Allen just didn't make it happen.  

 

Allen has left a lot out on the field this year.  Luckily he is so good that he has done enough most games to mask or make up for that.  But come playoff time, we need him to be better and maximize those opportunities.  Too often he makes a poor decision, poor throw to a wide open guy, or just flat out doesn't see open windows.  Many of those were drive killing moments or moments we could have added points but didn't.

 

If we are going to win a SB this year, we need Allen to clean more of that up.  Best part is Allen knows it, he owned it on the field right after the game stating he had several balls he wish he had back.  I am massive Allen fan, so don't get it twisted, I love Allen and think is unquestionably right there with Mahomes for best in the league.  But that doesn't mean he doesn't have to do some things better either or clean some things up.  

 

I actually had that thought when I was listening to Paddy M. talk about how you need your best football to beat a great team.

 

Buffalo was far from playing their best football on offense.  Had some gaps and glitches on defense too.

[Not at the table Karlos]

It boggles my mind that people have been questioning why he’s been ineffective.
 

The Bills said he had turf toe. They didn’t let him rest it very long. He showed explosiveness in camp, he didn’t after he had turf toe, now after weeks of lighter usage and sitting out he all of the sudden has his explosiveness back. Hmm I wonder why. 

[Beck Water]

16 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

It boggles my mind that people have been questioning why he’s been ineffective.
 

The Bills said he had turf toe. They didn’t let him rest it very long. He showed explosiveness in camp, he didn’t after he had turf toe, now after weeks of lighter usage and sitting out he all of the sudden has his explosiveness back. Hmm I wonder why. 

 

You're right, but also people have been seeing Samuel open at times ( @Alphadawg7's comment about Samuel downfield, although I always take that with a grain of salt since on the TV it can be hard to tell if he's open at the right time in the progression) and Allen not pulling the trigger to go to him.

[somnus00]

5 hours ago, warrior9 said:

I mean, did you not see the screen he turned in to a first down on the first drive on third and 9? I believe that first down set the tone for the game. 

We're so much better just without Gabe, in general. 

The screen game to Samuel has been objectively bad this season. Just because one works doesn't mean screens to him are a good idea. I like Samuel as a weapon. But seems to me his game should be short and intermediate routes. He's done much better with these than with screens. Not everything has to be an argument.

[Not at the table Karlos]

13 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

You're right, but also people have been seeing Samuel open at times ( @Alphadawg7's comment about Samuel downfield, although I always take that with a grain of salt since on the TV it can be hard to tell if he's open at the right time in the progression) and Allen not pulling the trigger to go to him.

He has been open a decent amount and Allen for whatever reason doesn’t throw to him. There was 3 maybe 4 times it happened in the chefs game.  He’s been open at times despite not looking as explosive or smooth as he has in the past. IIRC he was graded as one of the Bills best separators(not saying much) 
 

 

[Coach Tuesday]

27 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

It boggles my mind that people have been questioning why he’s been ineffective.
 

The Bills said he had turf toe. They didn’t let him rest it very long. He showed explosiveness in camp, he didn’t after he had turf toe, now after weeks of lighter usage and sitting out he all of the sudden has his explosiveness back. Hmm I wonder why. 

I think it’s a totally fair question given how much trouble they’ve had integrating other free agent receivers over the years.  Maybe Samuel is an isolated event and it’s all injury-related or maybe there’s a bit of a disconnect between the Bills’ coaches and the personnel department that brought us Sherfield, Harty and Sanders.

[MasterStrategist]

Samuel's finally getting over his turf toe enough to be almost 100%.

 

He was doing this in OTAs and training camp, until the toe.  

 

He's always been a weapon, just needed to get healthy and has been open on alot of routes that Josh didn't go his way with.

 

Just encouraged to see the diverse group we have working, Kincaid and Keon will eventually be back, and this is what Beane mostly envisioned coming into the year.  Finally getting RAC, Shakir especially is just special at this, but Samuel offers enough wiggle.  At some point, need to get those slants/deep ins to Cooper going.  He'll get more freed up as others step up.

[Mighty Taco]

Yes.  Go Bills!

[LABILLBACKER]

5 hours ago, somnus00 said:

The screen game to Samuel has been objectively bad this season. Just because one works doesn't mean screens to him are a good idea. I like Samuel as a weapon. But seems to me his game should be short and intermediate routes. He's done much better with these than with screens. Not everything has to be an argument.

I agree, no more screens or throws behind the LOS for Samuel.  Throw to him downfield 8-20 yards.  That's where he will thrive.

Edited November 19 by LABILLBACKER