Brady and the Run Game

[Andrew Son]

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

“To be truly unstoppable”-  that’s not really a thing.  
 

-  yes a he did the right thing by continuing to run.  Once you stop running, the D sells out.  
 

Brady and Babich were both excellent.  As was McD, minus that ridic challenge
 

 

We got screwed by the broadcast on that challenge.  Normally there is a replay but they went to a "game break" instead there.

[DrDawkinstein]

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

“To be truly unstoppable”-  that’s not really a thing.  
 

-  yes a he did the right thing by continuing to run.  Once you stop running, the D sells out.  
 

Brady and Babich were both excellent.  As was McD, minus that ridic challenge
 

 

 

Whoever it was we hired to sit in the booth and tell McD when to challenge needs to be fired this morning.

[NewEra]

8 minutes ago, Andrew Son said:

We got screwed by the broadcast on that challenge.  Normally there is a replay but they went to a "game break" instead there.

Don’t we have guys in the booth with the ability to hit rewind?  

[Not at the table Karlos]

3 hours ago, drummernut74 said:

Kind of a two fold discussion here ....

 

1. Was it genius or stupidity yesterday that Brady stubbornly stuck to the run game yesterday, when clearly it was not working.  Chiefs have not given up more than 60 yards to an RB all season.  Or was it for the purpose of running clock and just keeping the Chiefs D honest?

 

2. IMHO ... we really need a more creative run game in order to be truly unstoppable.  Is it because we lack imagination, or because we don't have the style of O-Lineman capable of doing more athletic and sophisticated things.  Everything seems to be just plow left, plow right, plow forward

 

Good topic to start the bye week

Like others have said you absolutely cannot just give up running the ball. 
 

The lineman were getting blown up. They’re not maulers. 

[Andrew Son]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

Don’t we have guys in the booth with the ability to hit rewind?  

Sure but the broadcast didn't have a great view of the feet.  We needed those other angles you get with a replay.

[Not at the table Karlos]

3 hours ago, K D said:

The gameplan yesterday - Run up the middle for 1 yard, throw short screen to the sidelines for 1 yard, Josh has to make a superhero play on 3rd and long. It lacked any creativity and it's not a sustainable model for success. We won, sure, but Josh had to literally make the best play in the NFL this year for that to happen.

 

Would have liked to see some play action off that 1st down run or end around to the motion man, or everyone go one way and throw screen back the other way. Something creative. Or more Cooper down the field and Shakir over the middle. But we won so feel free to down vote this.

There was play action off some of the runs. Can’t really be creative when your line is getttng manhandled the whole game. They scored 30 against a defense that hasn’t given up that many points in a long time.
 

They should have scored more but Allen missed open receivers on downs that ended up stalling the drive because of the missed opportunity. 

[bmur66]

We don't care who you are or what happens. We will run the ball on 1st down every time. My team will learn that we will run the ball on first down and they will learn to do it properly. They will like to run the ball on first down. If we get one yard then Josh Allen will get the first down and we will run the ball again.

[Bill51390]

Definitely shouldn’t have ran it on that 3rd and 2 at the end of the game before the Allen run. 

[hondo in seattle]

I've been a vocal critic of Brady at times in the past.  But it's hard to criticize him for this game.

 

KC excels at run defense and their DL is better than our OL.

 

So you'd expect us to pass a lot.  The problem here, though, is that their DL was pressuring Josh.  (At halftime someone said on air the Chiefs were pressuring Josh on 50% of pass plays).  The other problem is that our receivers don't excel at separation and 2 of our 3 best receivers were out with injuries.  

 

No holes for our backs.  No time for our QB.  Receivers struggling to get open.  Sounds like an offensive catastrophe yet we were the first team to hang 30 on a strong Chiefs D all year.  Brady did something right.  

 

 

[K D]

1 hour ago, fan_in_tx said:

We won and we scored 30 points... again.. Don't fix what's not broken

And we have never won a Superbowl because having to make the most amazing play ever to win a game isn't a sustainable model for success in the playoffs where it's win or go home. Very easily Josh gets tackled for a loss on 4th down and KC kicks a FG to win by 1. Then how are we feeling about the play calling today?

[mushypeaches]

I am in no mood to tolerate the whining and armchair quarterbacking of "how" we won our biggest game of the year

 

Sometimes, running the ball is more about the number of carries than the actual success of those carries

Sometimes, your unsuccessful runs are setting up more successful pass plays later

You can't give up the run and become one-dimensional against that defense.  Proven winners like Steve Spagnuolo will eat you alive if you do - and that was definitely the challenge with Daboll & Dorsey's offenses

 

We have a game plan against KC that relies on controlling the clock - winning time of possession, and also having the ball last at the end of each half

 

We did that yesterday, and BTW, also scored 30 points against a team that hadn't given up that many in 2 years

 

The rest of this discussion is just noise

 

GO BILLS!

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, K D said:

The gameplan yesterday - Run up the middle for 1 yard, throw short screen to the sidelines for 1 yard, Josh has to make a superhero play on 3rd and long. It lacked any creativity and it's not a sustainable model for success. We won, sure, but Josh had to literally make the best play in the NFL this year for that to happen.

 

Would have liked to see some play action off that 1st down run or end around to the motion man, or everyone go one way and throw screen back the other way. Something creative. Or more Cooper down the field and Shakir over the middle. But we won so feel free to down vote this.

 

They called some play action shots down the field on early downs that Josh came off to throw short because there was no separation downfield. The Bills had more shot plays called yesterday than any other game all season. They were definitely looking to attack the Chiefs downfield. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

43 minutes ago, bmur66 said:

We don't care who you are or what happens. We will run the ball on 1st down every time. My team will learn that we will run the ball on first down and they will learn to do it properly. They will like to run the ball on first down. If we get one yard then Josh Allen will get the first down and we will run the ball again.

I don't think passing on 16 of 29 first downs is running every time. I'd have to check the definition of every but I don't think it means what you think it means. 

[US Egg]

2 minutes ago, mushypeaches said:

The rest of this discussion is just noise

 

[PoundingDog]

26 minutes ago, Bill51390 said:

Definitely shouldn’t have ran it on that 3rd and 2 at the end of the game before the Allen run. 

Not sure. I think it's RPO. And I think at the end of first half it worked for Ty. Hats' off to the Chiefs playing it well there. 

 

The fact that Allen checks into that on 3rd down is a sign of his maturity to me. I know Romo and most people watching the game think it'll be Allen on the ball, but this year, he's more willing to trust someone else. Maybe that play had influence on KC handling the 4th down play where they didn't have a guy spying on Allen.

 

There is a lot of cat-and-mouse game going on there between offense and defense. There are more unpredictability on Bills offense this year. Used to be either Allen passing or Allen runs. Who could have predicted that Bills going to red zones to have Cook running in for 2 TDs where the run game was not going well the whole game? I'm pretty sure Spagnuolo was not expecting those Cook's runs.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

12 minutes ago, K D said:

And we have never won a Superbowl because having to make the most amazing play ever to win a game isn't a sustainable model for success in the playoffs where it's win or go home. Very easily Josh gets tackled for a loss on 4th down and KC kicks a FG to win by 1. Then how are we feeling about the play calling today?

If Josh just ran and got 3 yards, the Bills probably still win that game. At a minimum that is 3 more plays and I think Chiefs only had two TOs. At worst you are probably looking at a 5 point game with about a minute to play. Of course KC can score a TD in that time. And who is to say Bills don't get two more first downs and just kill the clock and win without even scoring. 

My only criticism of that game is not kicking a FG on 4th and 3. I thought at that moment 3 points was more important, especially with the missed PAT. 

[mbowman14]

Yesterday should have mirrored the Seattle gameplan in my opinion.  Against Seattle, we bucked the normal trend of 1st down runs with play-action out of the gate and it was extremely effective.  We then mixed the run game in later on early downs and worked in reverse of our normal pattern.  With KC's aggressiveness at the LOS, I think a similar approach of working in reverse (play-action early in the game on early downs) would have been better that banging our heads against the proverbial wall.  That presents the threat early and opens up the run game later.

[stlbills13]

Yeah you absolutely have to continue to run the ball especially with us having banged up pass catchers. Also, I know it's the not Chiefs offense of old but it's still good to keep Mahomes off the field. I did think the called runs were a little predictable and not very creative yesterday but you also don't need to empty the playbook in week 11 either. I was very happy with the coaching yesterday. 

[PoundingDog]

2 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

If Josh just ran and got 3 yards, the Bills probably still win that game. At a minimum that is 3 more plays and I think Chiefs only had two TOs. At worst you are probably looking at a 5 point game with about a minute to play. Of course KC can score a TD in that time. And who is to say Bills don't get two more first downs and just kill the clock and win without even scoring. 

My only criticism of that game is not kicking a FG on 4th and 3. I thought at that moment 3 points was more important, especially with the missed PAT. 

Agree on the 4th and 3. 

 

To be honest, I was expecting us to run the clock out on them and win by 2. They would be aggressive - to go for first downs. 2 first downs and the game would be over. Didn't expect Josh to run for 26 yards in one shot.

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, Bill51390 said:

Definitely shouldn’t have ran it on that 3rd and 2 at the end of the game before the Allen run. 

I'll defend Brady here.  The goal was to at least get a yard, keep the clock running and have a 4th & 1 that would have allowed the Bills to run the Allen sneak which has been money in the bank.

 

 

43 minutes ago, PoundingDog said:

Agree on the 4th and 3. 

 

To be honest, I was expecting us to run the clock out on them and win by 2. They would be aggressive - to go for first downs. 2 first downs and the game would be over. Didn't expect Josh to run for 26 yards in one shot.

The TD sealed the game because it meant that KC would have to recover an onside kick if they scored again.  Of all the possible outcomes, like the Bills getting another 1st down to run out the clock, this was the one that gave Buffalo the best chance to win.