Brady and the Run Game

[drummernut74]

Kind of a two fold discussion here ....

 

1. Was it genius or stupidity yesterday that Brady stubbornly stuck to the run game yesterday, when clearly it was not working.  Chiefs have not given up more than 60 yards to an RB all season.  Or was it for the purpose of running clock and just keeping the Chiefs D honest?

 

2. IMHO ... we really need a more creative run game in order to be truly unstoppable.  Is it because we lack imagination, or because we don't have the style of O-Lineman capable of doing more athletic and sophisticated things.  Everything seems to be just plow left, plow right, plow forward

 

Good topic to start the bye week

[Ethan in Cleveland]

You can't just give up running the ball.

And I will give you one example why. 

Bootleg roll out pass to a wide open Morris. That play doesn't almost work if you abandon the run game. Sticking to the run game keeps the defense honest and helps the play action pass game. While they did not get any long runs in the run game, I don't recall any negative runs either. Lots of 2 yard gains. With a more vertical pass game threat, Brown at RT, and playing on a wet/frigid surface where Defense will have disadvantage footing wise, some of those 2 yard gains will be 4 and 6 yard gains in the playoffs

 

As for creativity, not sure what you mean. They ran out of several different sets and even ran a toss play. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't recall another toss play all year. I would like to see some more runs to the outside but for whatever reason Brady seems to save those for the red zone only. They are running far more plays from under center than they ever did with Daboll or Dorsey. 

[K D]

The gameplan yesterday - Run up the middle for 1 yard, throw short screen to the sidelines for 1 yard, Josh has to make a superhero play on 3rd and long. It lacked any creativity and it's not a sustainable model for success. We won, sure, but Josh had to literally make the best play in the NFL this year for that to happen.

 

Would have liked to see some play action off that 1st down run or end around to the motion man, or everyone go one way and throw screen back the other way. Something creative. Or more Cooper down the field and Shakir over the middle. But we won so feel free to down vote this.

[NewEra]

“To be truly unstoppable”-  that’s not really a thing.  
 

-  yes a he did the right thing by continuing to run.  Once you stop running, the D sells out.  
 

Brady and Babich were both excellent.  As was McD, minus that ridic challenge
 

 

[ganesh]

10 minutes ago, NewEra said:

“To be truly unstoppable”-  that’s not really a thing.  
 

-  yes a he did the right thing by continuing to run.  Once you stop running, the D sells out.  
 

Brady and Babich were both excellent.  As was McD, minus that ridic challenge
 

 

I hope the defense can stop the run better.  Far too many times, the Chiefs were able to run for 7 and 8 yards on 1st downs.  That allowed them to move up and down the field on those 3 TD drives.

 

Also, I didn't realize that our defense was ranked 15th against the Run, 18th against the Pass and overall 18th in total defense...I was surprised when CBS showed it especially considering the number of takeaways this team has been having.

Edited November 18 by ganesh

[GaryPinC]

3 minutes ago, K D said:

The gameplan yesterday - Run up the middle for 1 yard, throw short screen to the sidelines for 1 yard, Josh has to make a superhero play on 3rd and long. It lacked any creativity and it's not a sustainable model for success. We won, sure, but Josh had to literally make the best play in the NFL this year for that to happen.

 

Would have liked to see some play action off that 1st down run or end around to the motion man, or everyone go one way and throw screen back the other way. Something creative. Or more Cooper down the field and Shakir over the middle. But we won so feel free to down vote this.

I agree with you about  play action, I would also counter that all the boring plays are needed to set up the exotic in a game like this.

  This was always going to be a tough, grind it out game against a great defense and so as tough as it is to watch, it set up things like the second half flats pass to Shakir for a first down, TD pass to Samuel, and of course Josh's run.  They had that 4th down perfectly defensed as they had seen the look a lot!😂

 

Lulling the defense to a bored state of mind so you can exploit a variation when needed for a big play.  Running down the clock with the lead.  I think this was purposeful,  and especially because we held the lead.  And it truly gives me hope for a Superbowl  because it's next level stuff this year.

[Billsatlastin2018]

The Bills need the Run game,to make everything go. In stretches, especially against the stiffs- it works very well. And Cook, etc. have gotten better.

 

What I do NOT want to see is Brady scheduling it on virtually EVERY 1st Down!

Cut that ***** out! Run on 2nd. Mix it up. 

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

4 minutes ago, Billsatlastin2018 said:

The Bills need the Run game,to make everything go. In stretches, especially against the stiffs- it works very well. And Cook, etc. have gotten better.

 

What I do NOT want to see is Brady scheduling it on virtually EVERY 1st Down!

Cut that ***** out! Run on 2nd. Mix it up. 

 

16 out of 29 first down plays that the Bills ran before the final kneel down were passes.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/playbyplay/_/gameId/401671665

[Don Otreply]

I think, that as said above, you have to continue to run the ball all game long, mixing in a few outside runs would have made for better early down success throughout the game, jmo. 
 

GO BILLS!!!

[Big Turk]

49 minutes ago, drummernut74 said:

Kind of a two fold discussion here ....

 

1. Was it genius or stupidity yesterday that Brady stubbornly stuck to the run game yesterday, when clearly it was not working.  Chiefs have not given up more than 60 yards to an RB all season.  Or was it for the purpose of running clock and just keeping the Chiefs D honest?

 

2. IMHO ... we really need a more creative run game in order to be truly unstoppable.  Is it because we lack imagination, or because we don't have the style of O-Lineman capable of doing more athletic and sophisticated things.  Everything seems to be just plow left, plow right, plow forward

 

Good topic to start the bye week

 

You have to stick with it to some degree to avoid being completely one dimensional.

 

The Chiefs are just a really good run defense. They haven't allowed an RB to gain more than 60 yards all season.

 

Cook scored twice on the ground when it mattered tho.

 

A few wrinkles would be nice like some jet sweeps or WR runs that other teams seem to use effectively.

 

I think the run game is good...it's predicated on fundamentally sound football, something the Bills are usually very good at.

 

The Bills WR screen game is essentially an extension of their running game.

Edited November 18 by Big Turk

[Sierra Foothills]

54 minutes ago, drummernut74 said:

1. Was it genius or stupidity yesterday that Brady stubbornly stuck to the run game yesterday, when clearly it was not working.  Chiefs have not given up more than 60 yards to an RB all season.  Or was it for the purpose of running clock and just keeping the Chiefs D honest?

 

2. IMHO ... we really need a more creative run game in order to be truly unstoppable.  Is it because we lack imagination, or because we don't have the style of O-Lineman capable of doing more athletic and sophisticated things.  Everything seems to be just plow left, plow right, plow forward

 

Good topic to start the bye week

 

Great topic.

 

1. I love the commitment to the run game and the fact that they don't abandon it when it's not "effective." Running the ball doesn't have  to produce chunks to benefit the offense. The Bills RBs and O-line are good enough that teams have to honor the run. This is a good thing.

 

2. Not really sure.

 

25 minutes ago, ganesh said:

I hope the defense can stop the run better.  Far too many times, the Chiefs were able to run for 7 and 8 yards on 1st downs.  That allowed them to move up and down the field on those 3 TD drives.

 

Also, I didn't realize that our defense was ranked 15th against the Run, 18th against the Pass and overall 18th in total defense...I was surprised when CBS showed it especially considering the number of takeaways this team has been having.

 

It's the same every week... the Bills base D is nickel and they mostly play light boxes... inviting teams to run.

 

FWIW, KC rushed 17 times for 78 yards for 4.6 ypc.

 

They had a total of 259 yards of offense.

 

15 minutes ago, SageAgainstTheMachine said:

16 out of 29 first down plays that the Bills ran before the final kneel down were passes.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/playbyplay/_/gameId/401671665

 

Continuing a season-long trend of being balanced as their only "tendency."

 

Edited November 18 by Sierra Foothills

[Big Turk]

Just now, Sierra Foothills said:

 

Great topic.

 

1. I love the commitment to the run game and the fact that they don't abandon it when it's not "effective." Running the ball doesn't have  to produce chunks to benefit the offense. The Bills RBs and O-[ine are good enough that teams have to honor the run. This is a good thing.

 

2. Not really sure.

 

 

It's the same every week... the Bills base D is nickel and they mostly play light boxes... inviting teams to run.

 

FWIW, KC rushed 17 times for 78 yards for 4.6 ypc.

 

They had a total of 259 yards of offense.

 

 

Continuing a season-long trend of being balanced as their only "tendency."

 

 

The first few weeks they ran the ball significantly more on first down and that was an issue in the Baltimore/Houston game somewhat but they figured it out and have been much better at keeping teams off-balance with that since 

[Sweats]

Even if you are gaining zero yards on runs, you have to at least keep trying them........this keeps the LB's in check and forces the D to respect the LOS.

 

We seemed to have a little success at running to the outside and Cook is no slouch at turning the corner, so why we kept trying to run it straight up the gut with very little success is beyond me.

KC would not be denied at stopping gut runs.

[The Jokeman]

1 hour ago, Big Turk said:

 

You have to stick with it to some degree to avoid being completely one dimensional.

 

The Chiefs are just a really good run defense. They haven't allowed an RB to gain more than 60 yards all season.

 

Cook scored twice on the ground when it mattered tho.

 

A few wrinkles would be nice like some jet sweeps or WR runs that other teams seem to use effectively.

 

I think the run game is good...it's predicated on fundamentally sound football, something the Bills are usually very good at.

 

The Bills WR screen game is essentially an extension of their running game.

It be great if we could get Cook to perform a screen like they do with Shakir. 

[uninja]

2 hours ago, drummernut74 said:

Kind of a two fold discussion here ....

 

1. Was it genius or stupidity yesterday that Brady stubbornly stuck to the run game yesterday, when clearly it was not working.  Chiefs have not given up more than 60 yards to an RB all season.  Or was it for the purpose of running clock and just keeping the Chiefs D honest?

 

2. IMHO ... we really need a more creative run game in order to be truly unstoppable.  Is it because we lack imagination, or because we don't have the style of O-Lineman capable of doing more athletic and sophisticated things.  Everything seems to be just plow left, plow right, plow forward

 

Good topic to start the bye week

Unless you’re down multiple scores, and even then, you don’t give up running. If the threat to run goes away it makes the other team’s job MUCH easier. 

[Big Turk]

1 minute ago, The Jokeman said:

It be great if we could get Cook to perform a screen like they do with Shakir. 

 

The Bills and specifically Allen are terrible on RB screens.  He doesn't suck the defenders in enough and throws the ball too early which means there are usually defenders all around the RB.  The O-Line is terrible at selling it too...they seemingly block too well and hold up the D-Line meaning they are close to where the RB is catching the ball and creates a lot of muddiness and traffic near the LOS.

[fan_in_tx]

2 hours ago, K D said:

The gameplan yesterday - Run up the middle for 1 yard, throw short screen to the sidelines for 1 yard, Josh has to make a superhero play on 3rd and long. It lacked any creativity and it's not a sustainable model for success. We won, sure, but Josh had to literally make the best play in the NFL this year for that to happen.

 

Would have liked to see some play action off that 1st down run or end around to the motion man, or everyone go one way and throw screen back the other way. Something creative. Or more Cooper down the field and Shakir over the middle. But we won so feel free to down vote this.

We won and we scored 30 points... again.. Don't fix what's not broken

[947]

It's hard to run effectively when Chris Jones is in the backfield in less than a second on half the plays, but yeah you can't just abandon it.

 

I would've like to see them try running outside the tackles more than the 1-2 times we did. And using reverses & run-game trickery like the Chiefs do probably would've worked, but that's not really something we do much of.

[BillsFan130]

I didn't like the game plan for the most part. 
 

Bills were successful cause Josh Allen bailed them out of 3rd and longs all game long.

 

Joe Brady has to do a better job on 1st and 2nd downs. As running up the gut time and time again against a top 5 run defence is just making it a lot harder than it should have been

[TrentEdwardsCheckDownOn4th]

Even if kc is dominant against the run you can't just abandon it, then everything else becomes predictable . Plus like you said part of the reason running the ball was go run clock and keep their offense off the field.