This game shows that a fully healthy D would have beaten KC in last year's playoffs

[HappyDays]

1 minute ago, 90sBills said:

The regular season wins in ‘21 and ‘22 were even more convincing.

 

2021 Mahomes hit a rough patch and we got him during a stretch in the regular season where he was playing like crap. We blew them out but their team clearly was more talented than ours. Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce both in their prime... It's even more insane with hindsight. We were outmatched big time against that roster.

 

2022 is not a good year of comparison because our whole season fell apart after the Chiefs game, first with Von's ACL and then Hamlin (and Allen's untimely, uh, personal issues which are an open secret at this point). We didn't even face KC in the playoffs because the whole team was emotionally done by the end. So who knows if that regular season win against them was predictive.

 

Obviously a regular season win doesn't mean we are coasting past them this year, but after yesterday it sure looks to me like we genuinely outmatch them right now. And this will be the first time I'm going to enter the playoffs feeling that way.

[Mikie2times]

33 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen said:

 

No.

 

Mahomes in his first 5 div rd or further playoff games has 

 

13 passing touchdowns and 2 int 

16 total tds and 2 tos

 

Allen and Mahomes first 10 playoff games are virtually identical with both being 1 and 2 in many categories 

 

Allen is now 4-2 vs mahomes since 21 with better overall numbers statistically like passing touchdowns 

Total tds and passer rating, EPA etc 

Mahomes first 5 divisional playoff games? What contorted crooked math are you pulling here? Let me make this really simple for you.

 

Mahomes has played in 10 divisional or conference championship games. He has 28 passing TD’s and 2 INT’s. He has the highest EPA in divisional and conference championship history at .333

 

Allen has played in 5 divisional or conference championship games. He has 8 passing TD’s and 2 INT’s. He has an EPA of .146 which is less than half of Mahomes.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 19 by Mikie2times

[Kelly to Allen]

8 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

Mahomes first 5 divisional playoff games? What contorted crooked math are you pulling here? Let me make this really simple for you.

 

Mahomes has played in 10 divisional or conference championship games. He has 28 passing TD’s and 2 INT’s. He has the highest EPA in divisional and conference championship history at .333

 

Allen has played in 5 divisional or conference championship games. He has 8 passing TD’s and 2 INT’s. He has an EPA of .146 which is less than half of Mahomes.

 

Go read pro football reference or a book or something. 

 

 

 

 

Huh???  These are all from pro football reference 

 

Mahomes in his first 5 division Rd or further playoff games 

 

Is 13 passing touchdowns and 2 int 

Allen in his first 5 division Rd or further 

 

8 passing touchdowns and 2 int 

 

 

Allen and Mahomes again have virtually identical playoff numbers and passing stats in their first ten playoff games... 

 

Mahomes 25-4

Allen 21-4 in passing tds to int

 

Not sure why you're counting volume stats in playoff games Allen hasn't played in. 

 

It's like a RB having more tds because he obviously played in more games lol

 

This isn't hard 

8 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

Mahomes first 5 divisional playoff games? What contorted crooked math are you pulling here? Let me make this really simple for you.

 

Mahomes has played in 10 divisional or conference championship games. He has 28 passing TD’s and 2 INT’s. He has the highest EPA in divisional and conference championship history at .333

 

Allen has played in 5 divisional or conference championship games. He has 8 passing TD’s and 2 INT’s. He has an EPA of .146 which is less than half of Mahomes.

 

Go read pro football reference or a book or something. 

 

 

 

 

Allen in the playoffs has a higher td% and lower int% since 2020.  

 

Allen has the second most tds in NFL playoff history for a QB in his first ten playoff games. Mahomes is number 1 with like 3 more tds

Edited November 19 by Kelly to Allen

[Kelly to Allen]

32 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

2021 Mahomes hit a rough patch and we got him during a stretch in the regular season where he was playing like crap. We blew them out but their team clearly was more talented than ours. Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce both in their prime... It's even more insane with hindsight. We were outmatched big time against that roster.

 

2022 is not a good year of comparison because our whole season fell apart after the Chiefs game, first with Von's ACL and then Hamlin (and Allen's untimely, uh, personal issues which are an open secret at this point). We didn't even face KC in the playoffs because the whole team was emotionally done by the end. So who knows if that regular season win against them was predictive.

 

Obviously a regular season win doesn't mean we are coasting past them this year, but after yesterday it sure looks to me like we genuinely outmatch them right now. And this will be the first time I'm going to enter the playoffs feeling that way.

They weren't more talented than buffalo in 21. 

[Sierra Foothills]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFan said:

The Bills are 82-43 under McD.  They are 58-34 against the AFC, but only 1-3 against Baltimore in the regular season.

 

And the Bills under McDermott are 1-0 vs Baltimore in the playoffs.

 

[Kelly to Allen]

3 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

And the Bills under McDermott are 1-0 vs Baltimore in the playoffs.

 

Allen is 2-2 vs Lamar, with a win in the playoffs over Lamar 

[Mikie2times]

14 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen said:

Huh???  These are all from pro football reference 

 

Mahomes in his first 5 division Rd or further playoff games 

 

Is 13 passing touchdowns and 2 int 

Allen in his first 5 division Rd or further 

 

8 passing touchdowns and 2 int 

 

 

Allen and Mahomes again have virtually identical playoff numbers and passing stats in their first ten playoff games... 

 

Mahomes 25-4

Allen 21-4 in passing tds to int

 

Not sure why you're counting volume stats in playoff games Allen hasn't played in. 

 

It's like a RB having more tds because he obviously played in more games lol

 

This isn't hard 

Allen in the playoffs has a higher td% and lower int% since 2020.  

 

Allen has the second most tds in NFL playoff history for a QB in his first ten playoff games. Mahomes is number 1 with like 3 more tds

Wait, so because Josh and the Bills haven’t advanced and played the bulk of his playoff games in the wild card round, we should manipulate Mahomes playoff data to somehow match Allen’s? Dude you’re on one. You do realize Mahomes has played in 18 playoff games and still has played in less wild card games than Allen. He’s almost played in as many Super Bowls as Allen has wild card games. Pump the breaks and get some relevant context to the data you’re spewing. 

Edited November 19 by Mikie2times

[Kelly to Allen]

15 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

Wait, so because Josh and the Bills haven’t advanced and played the bulk of his playoff games in the wild card round, we should manipulate Mahomes playoff data to somehow match Allen’s? Dude you’re on one. You do realize Mahomes has played in 18 playoff games and still has played in less wild card games than Allen. He’s almost played in as many Super Bowls as Allen has wild card games. Pump the breaks and get some relevant context to the data you’re spewing. 

 

Wait what? 

 

You're literally not counting Allen's playoff games lol, and you're talking about manipulation. 

 

Also mahomes wasn't a rookie in 18. 

Allen was. 

 

It's very very simple 

 

Allen and Mahomes have almost identical playoff numbers in their first ten playoff games. 

 

Head to head is very close but with Allen creating a good lead since 21 

 

 

15 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

Wait, so because Josh and the Bills haven’t advanced and played the bulk of his playoff games in the wild card round, we should manipulate Mahomes playoff data to somehow match Allen’s? Dude you’re on one. You do realize Mahomes has played in 18 playoff games and still has played in less wild card games than Allen. He’s almost played in as many Super Bowls as Allen has wild card games. Pump the breaks and get some relevant context to the data you’re spewing. 

 

 

The wildcard thing you're trying to say is weird 

 

The 2 seed used to get a bye week. 

 

But why are you literally manipulating the stats by not counting Allen's playoff games lol. It's weird 

Allen since 21 is 

 

4-2 vs mahomes 

 

He has 17 tds 2 int

Mahomes has 14 tds 8 int. 

 

So basically for your argument to work 

 

You don't want to count Allen's playoff games 

You don't want to count head to head 

And you don't want to count head to head as both QBs surrounding infrastructure has equalized...

 

😂

 

But something something super bowls. Yes it's Allen's fault his wrs couldn't catch a football last year and his head coach lost his mind in 13 seconds and not cover anyone. It's also convenient to leave out missing our all pros. Get a grip 

 

 

 

Edited November 19 by Kelly to Allen

[Mikie2times]

38 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen said:

 

Wait what? 

 

You're literally not counting Allen's playoff games lol, and you're talking about manipulation. 

 

Also mahomes wasn't a rookie in 18. 

Allen was. 

 

It's very very simple 

 

Allen and Mahomes have almost identical playoff numbers in their first ten playoff games. 

 

Head to head is very close but with Allen creating a good lead since 21 

 

 

 

 

The wildcard thing you're trying to say is weird 

 

The 2 seed used to get a bye week. 

 

But why are you literally manipulating the stats by not counting Allen's playoff games lol. It's weird 

Allen since 21 is 

 

4-2 vs mahomes 

 

He has 17 tds 2 int

Mahomes has 14 tds 8 int. 

 

 

I’m counting games at a level of competition that is above the wild card round. His stats are still very good post wild card, but it looks rather pedestrian compared to what Mahomes has done in literally every statistical category. His data in the divisional or later rounds, is the best of all time, conversation over. It’s not  close. 
 

Now why is it sane to look at in these terms?
 

Allen’s 5 wild card games against Mahomes divisional and later games are different. It’s a significant difference in competition and performance by both. If it wasn’t we wouldn’t get stuck at the divisional round every year. When you just compare similar rounds, you get the results I’m showing. I don’t know what logic you land on where it makes sense to eliminate the bulk of the games Mahomes has played just because Allen didn’t advance.
 

You think the issue is Allen is younger. Thats not why he has so many less games. It’s because we lost. He has had 4 opportunities to advance past the divisional round and he did so once. Mahomes has had 6 opportunities and he did so 6 times. 
 

Who cares what the first 10 games for each resulted in, when we are comparing several wild card games vs multiple divisional, championship, and Super Bowl games. Do you not see how convoluted it is to look at it in these terms? 

Edited November 19 by Mikie2times

[Kelly to Allen]

11 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

I’m counting games at a level of competition that is above the wild card round. His stats are still very good post wild card, but it looks rather pedestrian compared to what Mahomes has done in literally every statistical category. His data in the divisional or later rounds, is the best of all time, conversation over. It’s not  close. 
 

Now why is it sane to look at in these terms?
 

Allen’s 5 wild card games against Mahomes divisional and later games are different. It’s a significant difference in competition and performance by both. If it wasn’t we wouldn’t get stuck at the divisional round every year. When you just compare similar rounds, you get the results I’m showing. I don’t know what logic you land on where it makes sense to eliminate the bulk of the games Mahomes has played just because Allen didn’t advance.
 

You think the issue is Allen is younger. Thats not why he has so many less games. It’s because we lost. He has had 4 opportunities to advance past the divisional round and he did so once. Mahomes has had 6 opportunities and he did so 6 times. 
 

Who cares what the first 10 games for each resulted in, when we are comparing several wild card games vs multiple divisional, championship, and Super Bowl games. Do you not see how convoluted it is to look at it in these terms? 
 

Done talking now. If you don’t understand at this point, you won’t. Which is fine. 

 

 

By this logic rex Grossman or Trent dilfer have more equity or value because " they advanced"... 

 

Your argument also doesn't make sense because the actual level of specific competition would be the defense Allen or mahomes is facing in the playoffs, not the necessary round. 

 

It's also a bizzare point because a wildcard team could literally be a better team hypothetically on paper. 

 

It's also weird because Allen would have a bye week in 2020, 2022, and 2023... They changed the rules 

 

Edited November 19 by Kelly to Allen

[Kelly to Allen]

You can count it a few ways that would be fair. 

 

Just count the playoff games. Once you start not counting playoff games you lose the argument.

 

You can count their first specific rounds.  mahomes has been a little better. With 5 more tds 

 

You can can count head to head overall 

 

You can count head to head are both teams and the environment has been close. Somewhere around 2020-2021 almost everyone would agree the bills surrounding program got close to what KC was back in 18-19. 

 

The head to head since 2020 is literally even. 4-4 and equal stats passing. 

 

Since 2021 Allen has pulled ahead when going against mahomes overall. 

 

 

But you can do something even easier and extremely fair 

 

Let's just count all the regular season and playoffs numbers together since 2020.

 

Again they are virtually equal here too. 

 

Mahomes has like 6 more passing touchdowns and Allen has like 30 more total tds 

 

Allen has a passer rating of 98

Mahomes is like 100.5 if I'm not mistaken 

 

 

If Allen is pulling ahead since 21 , with better numbers head to head 

Going 4-2 vs mahomes 

And with equal overall playoff passer rating, but Allen is doing this without Andy Reid, to me that speaks volumes.... 

 

 

[Mikie2times]

3 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen said:

 

 

By this logic rex Grossman or Trent dilfer have more equity or value because " they advanced"... 

 

Your argument also doesn't make sense because the actual level of specific competition would be the defense Allen or mahomes is facing in the playoffs, not the necessary round. 

 

It's also a bizzare point because a wildcard team could literally be a better team hypothetically on paper. 

 

 

We aren’t talking about single runs with all time great defenses, and there is a 100% correlation with defensive success and deeper playoff rounds, and what team did we play that you have pegged as being that elite wild card team? 

 

This is about two players and discussing playoff performance. Do you ever remember watching NFL films and becoming engrossed in all the legendary stories of wild card greatness? Probably not because it’s never happened. For all the great Josh has done in the postseason, to compare that to a guy who has performed at that level in deep rounds including multiple comebacks (to Allen’s none) is just a bad take all together. Typical for this place. But it doesn’t make it any better.

[Kelly to Allen]

I can't hold Superbowls against Allen right now because it's too much of a team sport. 

Just now, Mikie2times said:

We aren’t talking about single runs with all time great defenses, and there is a 100% correlation with defensive success and deeper playoff rounds, and what team did we play that you have pegged as being that elite wild card team? 

 

This is about two players and discussing playoff performance. Do you ever remember watching NFL films and becoming engrossed in all the legendary stories of wild card greatness? Probably not because it’s never happened. For all the great Josh has done in the postseason, to compare that to a guy who has performed at that level in deep rounds including multiple comebacks (to Allen’s none) is just a bad take all together. Typical for this place. But it doesn’t make it any better.

The colts, ravens, Patriots, and Steelers all had top ten defenses in points allowed 

 

The Patriots in 21 had the number 2 ranked defense and Allen had the only perfect playoff game in NFL history 

 

7 possessions, 7 tds, no turnovers, kneel down....

[Mikie2times]

2 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen said:

I can't hold Superbowls against Allen right now because it's too much of a team sport. 

I’m sure Marino will be happy to hear you think he’s the best of all time

[Kelly to Allen]

3 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

We aren’t talking about single runs with all time great defenses, and there is a 100% correlation with defensive success and deeper playoff rounds, and what team did we play that you have pegged as being that elite wild card team? 

 

This is about two players and discussing playoff performance. Do you ever remember watching NFL films and becoming engrossed in all the legendary stories of wild card greatness? Probably not because it’s never happened. For all the great Josh has done in the postseason, to compare that to a guy who has performed at that level in deep rounds including multiple comebacks (to Allen’s none) is just a bad take all together. Typical for this place. But it doesn’t make it any better.

Again this isn't the NBA where one guy can completely take over. 

 

By this logic of saying " mahomes has advanced more therefore I put more value into that" makes no sense. 

 

Rex Grossman" advanced " further than Warren Moon and Dan fouts.

 

You need to give a much more exhaustive context. 

1 minute ago, Mikie2times said:

I’m sure Marino will be happy to hear you think he’s the best of all time

 

Ring counting for QBs in the NFL doesn't make sense. Again nobody thinks dilfer or hostetler are better than Marino. 

 

That's an extreme example but that's fundamentally what you're saying 

 

 

Just count all the games in the playoffs and regular season since 2020

 

And head to head 

 

And then what is the trend head to head 

 

To me that's more nuanced than just not counting playoff games or saying you didn't advance 

[Kelly to Allen]

I'm going to keep saying it 

 

What is the narrative going to be when Allen obliterates KC in the AFC championship in Buffalo and then Allen would be 5-2 vs mahomes since 21 lol

 

 

[Mikie2times]

1 minute ago, Kelly to Allen said:

Again this isn't the NBA where one guy can completely take over. 

 

By this logic of saying " mahomes has advanced more therefore I put more value into that" makes no sense. 

 

Rex Grossman" advanced " further than Warren Moon and Dan fouts.

 

You need to give a much more exhaustive context. 

I live in a world where the very best players win championships and the ones that fail to do so explain how it’s a team game. I’m pretty sure it’s the same world most people live in. If it wasn’t we would be talking about Kelly, Marino, Fouts, Tarkenton, and several others in the best of all time conversations. Allen’s performance in the wild card round means relatively little in the scheme of history. While Mahomes performing that way deep in the playoffs has solidified him as a legend. Similar to Brady, similar to Montana. If that bothers you or you don’t understand why I don’t know what to tell you. 

[Kelly to Allen]

Just now, Mikie2times said:

I live in a world where the very best players win championships and the ones that fail to do so explain how it’s a team game. I’m pretty sure it’s the same world most people live in. If it wasn’t we would be talking about Kelly, Marino, Fouts, Tarkenton, and several others in the best of all time conversations. Allen’s performance in the wild card round means relatively little in the scheme of history. While Mahomes performing that way deep in the playoffs has solidified him as a legend. Similar to Brady, similar to Montana. If that bothers you or you don’t understand why I don’t know what to tell you. 

 

Allen was better than mahomes in the 13 seconds game. 

 

Id argue if you watched playoff game last year he was better.

 

But even if I conceded last year from a box score perspective 

 

Allen is now 4-2 vs mahomes since 21, with better numbers. That's actual reality, not some metaphysical chiefs message board hypothetical by not counting playoff games 

 

So again I'll ask if Allen blows out KC in the AFC championship in Buffalo this year and Allen is 5-2 vs mahomes since 21, what will your narrative be?

 

4 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

I live in a world where the very best players win championships and the ones that fail to do so explain how it’s a team game. I’m pretty sure it’s the same world most people live in. If it wasn’t we would be talking about Kelly, Marino, Fouts, Tarkenton, and several others in the best of all time conversations. Allen’s performance in the wild card round means relatively little in the scheme of history. While Mahomes performing that way deep in the playoffs has solidified him as a legend. Similar to Brady, similar to Montana. If that bothers you or you don’t understand why I don’t know what to tell you. 

 

The only thing I'll grant you is eventually Allen has to win at least one super bowl. 

 

But after that It makes little sense to ring count in football 

[Mikie2times]

3 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen said:

 

Allen was better than mahomes in the 13 seconds game. 

 

Id argue if you watched playoff game last year he was better.

 

But even if I conceded last year from a box score perspective 

 

Allen is now 4-2 vs mahomes since 21, with better numbers. That's actual reality, not some metaphysical chiefs message board hypothetical by not counting playoff games 

 

So again I'll ask if Allen blows out KC in the AFC championship in Buffalo this year and Allen is 5-2 vs mahomes since 21, what will your narrative be?

 

 

The only thing I'll grant you is eventually Allen has to win at least one super bowl. 

 

But after that It makes little sense to ring count in football 

Go to sleep Bills brother, he will get one and we won’t have to argue about this anymore 😂

 

Go Bills!

[Kelly to Allen]

6 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

I live in a world where the very best players win championships and the ones that fail to do so explain how it’s a team game. I’m pretty sure it’s the same world most people live in. If it wasn’t we would be talking about Kelly, Marino, Fouts, Tarkenton, and several others in the best of all time conversations. Allen’s performance in the wild card round means relatively little in the scheme of history. While Mahomes performing that way deep in the playoffs has solidified him as a legend. Similar to Brady, similar to Montana. If that bothers you or you don’t understand why I don’t know what to tell you. 

 

Michael Jordan and Wayne Gretzky were already called the greatest before they won a championship