Are Dynasties no longer rare?

[Mikie2times]

When you look at what New England accomplished, it’s clear they did something unprecedented in professional football. Sure, we’ve seen dynasties before—teams like the Bears in the Halas era, the Browns in the AAFL, the Packers, Steelers, and 49ers all had their time at the top. But as someone who’s followed the sport closely since the early '90s, and has really dug into its history, I didn’t think we’d ever see anything like what the Patriots did. That kind of sustained dominance, stretching across multiple decades, felt like it would never happen again. It seemed like something that couldn’t be replicated.

 

Yet here we are, with Kansas City chasing a potential three-peat, which—again—has never been done before. The crazy thing is, it only took a single off-season for the Patriots’ dynasty to smoothly transition into Kansas City’s. And when I started thinking about that, as I bounced it around my normal Bills thoughts, it seems to fit. Honestly, I don’t think we’re all that great, but when you take a step back, the truth is nobody else really is either. McDermott, for all the criticism he gets from me and others, is a disciplined coach. Combine that with a top-tier QB, and you’re set to win a lot of games. That’s something most teams just don’t have. So, I started wondering—are these dynasties really as rare as we think, or is this just the new normal for the NFL?

 

Sure, Brady had Manning, Roethlisberger, and others, while Mahomes has Allen, Burrow, Lamar, and others to contend with, but as we’ve hashed out endlessly in these forums, they’re still a step behind. Once you look beyond those guys, who’s really challenging Mahomes and the Chiefs? The NFL is so firmly a quarterback-driven league now. Out of all the professional sports, I’d argue QB is by far the most impactful position, the one that dictates the outcome more than any other. The way the game is structured now, if you have an elite QB, you don’t have down years. You don’t rebuild—you’re always competitive.

 

And when you get a great QB paired with excellent coaching and roster management? That’s when you get dynasties like we’re seeing now. Even back in the old days, when free agency wasn’t a factor, the value of a team was spread out across all positions, with the QB still being the most important piece, but not to the extent it is today. Now, I’m starting to think these so-called dynasties may not be as special or rare as we once thought. They might just be what we can expect moving forward in the NFL. Meanwhile, the rest of the teams are like the Colts with Peyton Mannings, trying to catch up, but for the most part, they’ll just be outclassed.

Edited 4 hours ago by Mikie2times

[Kelly to Allen]

6 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

When you look at what New England accomplished, it’s clear they did something unprecedented in professional football. Sure, we’ve seen dynasties before—teams like the Bears in the Halas era, the Browns in the AAFL, the Packers, Steelers, and 49ers all had their time at the top. But as someone who’s followed the sport closely since the early '90s, and has really dug into its history, I didn’t think we’d ever see anything like what the Patriots did. That kind of sustained dominance, stretching across multiple decades, felt like it would never happen again. It seemed like something that couldn’t be replicated.

 

Yet here we are, with Kansas City chasing a potential three-peat, which—again—has never been done before. The crazy thing is, it only took a single off-season for the Patriots’ dynasty to smoothly transition into Kansas City’s. And when I started thinking about that, as I bounced it around my normal Bills thoughts, it seems to fit. Honestly, I don’t think we’re all that great, but when you take a step back, the truth is nobody else really is, either. McDermott, for all the criticism he gets from me and others, is a disciplined coach. Combine that with a top-tier QB, and you’re set to win a lot of games. That’s something most teams just don’t have. So, I started wondering—are these dynasties really as rare as we think, or is this just the new normal for the NFL?

 

Sure, Brady had Manning, Roethlisberger, and others, while Mahomes has Allen, Burrow, Lamar, and others to contend with, but as we’ve hashed out endlessly in these forums, they’re still a step behind. Once you look beyond those guys, who’s really challenging Mahomes and the Chiefs? The NFL is so firmly a quarterback-driven league now. Out of all the professional sports, I’d argue QB is by far the most impactful position, the one that dictates the outcome more than any other. The way the game is structured now, if you have an elite QB, you don’t have down years. You don’t rebuild—you’re always competitive.

 

And when you get a great QB paired with excellent coaching and roster management? That’s when you get dynasties like we’re seeing now. Even back in the old days, when free agency wasn’t a factor, the value of a team was spread out across all positions, with the QB still being the most important piece, but not to the extent it is today.

Now, I’m starting to think these so-called dynasties may not be as special or rare as we once thought. They might just be what we can expect moving forward in the NFL. Meanwhile, the rest of the teams are like the Colts with Peyton Mannings, trying to catch up, but for the most part, they’ll just be outclassed.

 

 

The story is still being written. Nobody really thought buffalo would break through in the late 80s. Marino and Elway had been to 4 Superbowls and the 49ers were a dynasty. Buffalo then went to 4 straight super bowls

 

Similar in hockey the Islanders in the Early 80s won 4 straight cups and went to 5 straight. But then Edmonton broke through and went on their run....

 

We just don't know. Allen could win the next two Superbowls and then buffalo is trying to 3 peat.

 

As for are dynasties rare? Yes. But the NFL is about the QB and imo Allen is 1b to mahomes. 

 

It wouldn't be surprising to me if Allen went on a run or won multiple championships 

 

 

Edited 3 hours ago by Kelly to Allen

[Mikie2times]

17 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen said:

 

 

The story is still being written. Nobody really thought buffalo would break through in the late 80s. Marino and Elway had been to 4 Superbowls and the 49ers were a dynasty. Buffalo then went to 4 straight super bowls

 

Similar in hockey the Islanders in the Early 80s won 4 straight cups and went to 5 straight. But then Edmonton broke through and went on their run....

 

We just don't know. Allen could win the next two Superbowls and then buffalo is trying to 3 peat.

 

As for are dynasties rare? Yes. But the NFL is about the QB and imo Allen is 1b to mahomes. 

 

It wouldn't be surprising to me if Allen went on a run or won multiple championships 

 

 

I think the Patriots and Chiefs have the same things in common. QB, coaching, roster build. When you have the QB you will be competitive regardless. If you add the coach it makes that even more difficult to compete against. Once you get the roster on top of that, now you have a dynasty. It stands to reason in todays NFL that one team will be slightly ahead in these areas. So while teams can sneak thru and steal one, no other dynasty can exist until something tangible breaks up the one that is active.

 

I understand I tossed in some Bills talk, but it wasn't meant to be about them. But if you make it about them, can they sneak thru? Sure. But will Reid remain better than McD? Veach better than Beane? I won't get into Mahomes and Allen. But in my mind we are the Chiefs light. We have all the same things as them, but slightly worse. I don't know what they will go thru for that to change. Unless Mahomes just stops performing or Reid retires.

 

What happened to all those teams you named? Prior to Free Agency, players moved on and retired. What happened to New England? They got free agents to fill the gaps and kept doing it all over again. If the QB has a slight edge or if the QB and coach have a slight edge, it is very hard to overcome, even if you have your own combo and it can stay that way for a VERY long time, but once its over, expect a new one will start. That's the NFL today. 

Edited 3 hours ago by Mikie2times

[Johnnycage46]

They've never been rare. Every decade there has been a dominant team. it's Steeler, 80's 49ers, 90's Cowboys, 2000s and 2010s Patriots, 2020s KC.

[FireChans]

14 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

I think the Patriots and Chiefs have the same things in common. QB, coaching, roster build. When you have the QB you will be competitive regardless. If you add the coach it makes that even more difficult to compete against. Once you get the roster on top of that, now you have a dynasty. It stands to reason in todays NFL that one team will be slightly ahead in these areas. So while teams can sneak thru and steal one, no other dynasty can exist until something tangible breaks up the one that is active.

 

I understand I tossed in some Bills talk, but it wasn't meant to be about them. But if you make it about them, can they sneak thru? Sure. But will Reid remain better than McD? Veach better than Beane? I won't get into Mahomes and Allen. But in my mind we are the Chiefs light. We have all the same things as them, but slightly worse. I don't know what they will go thru for that to change. Unless Mahomes just stops performing or Reid retires.

 

What happened to all those teams you named? Prior to Free Agency, players moved on and retired. What happened to New England? They got free agents to fill the gaps and kept doing it all over again. If the QB has a slight edge or if the QB and coach have a slight edge, it is very hard to overcome, even if you have your own combo and it can stay that way for a VERY long time, but once its over, expect a new one will start. That's the NFL today. 

Best coach in the NFL + best QB in the NFL equals dynasty and lots of Super Bowls.

 

Everything else is closer to irrelevant thank folks like to admit.  The Steelers had good coaches and a great top 5 HoF QB and HoF players. They still didn't hold a candle to Brady/BB in NE. Same with the Seahawks. Same with the Falcons. Same with the Colts/Broncos.

 

The hope for teams like the Bills and the Ravens and the Bengals with great QB's is going to be sneak an SB or two, like the Colts, Broncos and Steelers did.  That's it.

[Mikie2times]

16 minutes ago, Johnnycage46 said:

They've never been rare. Every decade there has been a dominant team. it's Steeler, 80's 49ers, 90's Cowboys, 2000s and 2010s Patriots, 2020s KC.

I didn't do a good job with the post. I'm talking more about extended dynasties.

 

The Steelers won 4 Super Bowls in 4 appearances

The 49ers won 4 Super Bowls in 4 appearances 

The Cowboys won 3 Super Bowls in 3 appearance

 

The Patriots won 6 Super Bowls in 9 appearances

The Chiefs have won 3 Super Bowls in 4 appearances with no end in sight

 

The Patriots and Chiefs look different to me. They have what is considered to be the best QB and it started very young for them. They have the support of a good coach. They have the support of a good roster that can have pieces subbed in and out much more easy than those older dynasties. If the QB has drive, who is slowing him down? You can't hit him. He's not even 30. So you end up building a roster for a decade around this person. Who plays the most impactful position in all of sports. What I'm saying is this is NOT rare anymore. Whenever the Chiefs run ends, which is likely 5+ years from now, another will start and it will take the mold of the Patriots and Chiefs, not the Steelers, 49ers, or Cowboys.  

Edited 3 hours ago by Mikie2times

[JerseyBills]

Well Bills are about to start one, so that'll be 3 in the last 2 decades, more of an anomaly than anything.  

 

Allen is the best QB since Brady, he has outplayed Kermit in damn near every head to head matchup, Babich is perfect play caller for the D, 2024 will start 3+ SBs for the Bills

[Buffalo716]

Tom Brady always talks about how when he was around 30...

 

The narrative was still Peyton Manning was the best.. tom was on the best team

 

And he always swore that father time was coming quicker to Peyton and that he had a legacy to build 

 

I don't care what kind of team Patrick mahomes inherited 

 

Patrick mahomes lower body has been giving away , he's always hobbling and limping 

 

Josh Allen is running less than ever and has three good running backs he could depend on 

 

I don't care what the narrative is in 20 years people will be talking about Josh Allen

[Kelly to Allen]

53 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

I think the Patriots and Chiefs have the same things in common. QB, coaching, roster build. When you have the QB you will be competitive regardless. If you add the coach it makes that even more difficult to compete against. Once you get the roster on top of that, now you have a dynasty. It stands to reason in todays NFL that one team will be slightly ahead in these areas. So while teams can sneak thru and steal one, no other dynasty can exist until something tangible breaks up the one that is active.

 

I understand I tossed in some Bills talk, but it wasn't meant to be about them. But if you make it about them, can they sneak thru? Sure. But will Reid remain better than McD? Veach better than Beane? I won't get into Mahomes and Allen. But in my mind we are the Chiefs light. We have all the same things as them, but slightly worse. I don't know what they will go thru for that to change. Unless Mahomes just stops performing or Reid retires.

 

What happened to all those teams you named? Prior to Free Agency, players moved on and retired. What happened to New England? They got free agents to fill the gaps and kept doing it all over again. If the QB has a slight edge or if the QB and coach have a slight edge, it is very hard to overcome, even if you have your own combo and it can stay that way for a VERY long time, but once its over, expect a new one will start. That's the NFL today. 

All valid points. 

 

Ppl forget Jordan went through some heart breaking playoff series losses similar to Allen. Jordan in 1990 after losing for the 3rd time to the Great pistons was viewed as this transcendent talent who couldn't win the big one. 

 

The narrative shifted greatly when he finally broke through. It's a common journey among the greats...

 

Ppl view Allen as this transcendent talent right now with insane numbers and insane eye test talent but also some ppl are rightfully skeptical if he can capture the brass ring and overcome the greatest at this moment in mahomes. 

 

At the time too the Lakers and Celtics were dynastic, so it just depends. I personally believe that Allen is simply too talented to not win minimum two Superbowls. 

 

We'll see 

 

The 70s raiders went through very similar heartbreaking moments in the playoffs. They beat the back to back champions and formerly undefeated dolphins in 1974 in the infamous " sea of hands game". Ppl call it the greatest game ever and it was on the level of the 13 seconds game...

 

The raiders finally over came the dolphins but then imo had nothing left and lost to the other dynasty in the steel curtain Steelers of 74.... The raiders finally became world champions in 1976

 

Rip the great John Madden 

In the Brady era if Manning never got hurt in Indianapolis, I firmly believe he would have had his own 3-5 year run and you would've had two dynastic teams 

 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Kelly to Allen

[Kelly to Allen]

30 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Best coach in the NFL + best QB in the NFL equals dynasty and lots of Super Bowls.

 

Everything else is closer to irrelevant thank folks like to admit.  The Steelers had good coaches and a great top 5 HoF QB and HoF players. They still didn't hold a candle to Brady/BB in NE. Same with the Seahawks. Same with the Falcons. Same with the Colts/Broncos.

 

The hope for teams like the Bills and the Ravens and the Bengals with great QB's is going to be sneak an SB or two, like the Colts, Broncos and Steelers did.  That's it.

I don't agree with this although I understand your point. 

 

The 70s were extremely close to having 3-4 dynasties.

 

The cowboys and 49ers etc. 

 

Manning switching teams in the Brady era etc 

 

Tye point I'm saying is, it wouldn't surprise me at all if buffalo won the next two Superbowls and the narrative changed. 

 

I think any other opinion is probably underestimating Allen's greatness 

[Kelly to Allen]

26 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

Well Bills are about to start one, so that'll be 3 in the last 2 decades, more of an anomaly than anything.  

 

Allen is the best QB since Brady, he has outplayed Kermit in damn near every head to head matchup, Babich is perfect play caller for the D, 2024 will start 3+ SBs for the Bills

When Allen wins the world championship, ppl will finally understand how great he is. 

 

Allen has the most tds in NFL history for any player or position in his first 6 years 

 

If you took out all of Allen's rushing production, he still tied Peyton Manning in passing touchdowns in his first 6 years but with like 30 less interceptions..

 

Allen has the second most tds in NFL playoff history for a QB in his first ten playoff games 

 

He simultaneously has the lowest int percentage in NFL playoff history and the 3rd LEAST amount of turnovers in NFL playoffs history for a QB in his first ten playoff games 

 

At age 28 Allen has already tied him Kelly in playoff passing touchdowns...

 

Take a modern contemporary in another great like Lamar Jackson who everyone respects. Since 2020, Allen has almost 100 more tds in the regular season and playoffs since 2020... A frickin 100 lol

 

Allen has the fifth highest passer rating in NFL playoff history 

 

Allen has the highest back to back playoff passer rating in NFL history breaking Montanas record in 1989

 

If you take away Allen's best playoff game

And you take away burrow and Lamar worst playoff game 

 

Allen still has more passing touchdowns, more total tds, a higher td% , less turnovers, a higher passer rating and qbr, a higher EPA etc

 

Allen right now has more playoff tds than Lamar, burrow, Herbert and Lawrence combined....

 

Allen is like top 5 all time in regular season win percentage since 2019

 

Allen is 3-2 vs mahomes since 21

 

Allen 16 passing touchdowns 1 int

Mahomes 11 passing touchdowns 5 int

 

Allen if I'm not mistaken is first or second in 3rd down conversion percentage since 2020.

 

Allen has the most tds in NFL history over any 4 year span ever. From 20-23 

 

Allen was 6 passing tds away from being the first QB in NFL history to have 4 straight years of 35 or more passing touchdowns. 

 

Allen could retire today and it would be difficult to not put him in the Hof. The only argument you would have is he didn't win MVP or a super bowl 

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, Kelly to Allen said:

When Allen wins the world championship, ppl will finally understand how great he is. 

 

Allen has the most tds in NFL history for any player or position in his first 6 years 

 

If you took out all of Allen's rushing production, he still tied Peyton Manning in passing touchdowns in his first 6 years but with like 30 less interceptions..

 

Allen has the second most tds in NFL playoff history for a QB in his first ten playoff games 

 

He simultaneously has the lowest int percentage in NFL playoff history and the 3rd LEAST amount of turnovers in NFL playoffs history for a QB in his first ten playoff games 

 

At age 28 Allen has already tied him Kelly in playoff passing touchdowns...

 

Take a modern contemporary in another great like Lamar Jackson who everyone respects. Since 2020, Allen has almost 100 more tds in the regular season and playoffs since 2020... A frickin 100 lol

 

Allen has the fifth highest passer rating in NFL playoff history 

 

Allen has the highest back to back playoff passer rating in NFL history breaking Montanas record in 1989

 

If you take away Allen's best playoff game

And you take away burrow and Lamar worst playoff game 

 

Allen still has more passing touchdowns, more total tds, a higher td% , less turnovers, a higher passer rating and qbr, a higher EPA etc

 

Allen right now has more playoff tds than Lamar, burrow, Herbert and Lawrence combined....

 

Allen is like top 5 all time in regular season win percentage since 2019

 

Allen is 3-2 vs mahomes since 21

 

Allen 16 passing touchdowns 1 int

Mahomes 11 passing touchdowns 5 int

 

Allen if I'm not mistaken is first or second in 3rd down conversion percentage since 2020.

 

Allen has the most tds in NFL history over any 4 year span ever. From 20-23 

 

Allen was 6 passing tds away from being the first QB in NFL history to have 4 straight years of 35 or more passing touchdowns. 

 

Allen could retire today and it would be difficult to not put him in the Hof. The only argument you would have is he didn't win MVP or a super bowl 

I agree 

 

The only thing stopping him is championships 

 

I will never take a Josh Allen game for granted because there are only x amount left

[FireChans]

46 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen said:

I don't agree with this although I understand your point. 

 

The 70s were extremely close to having 3-4 dynasties.

 

The cowboys and 49ers etc. 

 

Manning switching teams in the Brady era etc 

 

Tye point I'm saying is, it wouldn't surprise me at all if buffalo won the next two Superbowls and the narrative changed. 

 

I think any other opinion is probably underestimating Allen's greatness 

They were close, but they weren't.

 

When Brady and BB were together, they played in 13 conference championship games.

 

Peyton played in 5. 4 of them were against Brady.

 

Brady played in 10 Superbowls and won 7. 

 

Peyton played in 4 Superbowls and won 2.

 

Peyton was a great player. One of the best QB's ever. He was never on the cusp of overthrowing the Pats dynasty.  He got a couple on them, but it was the Pats-era just like its the Chiefs-era now.

 

 

[Kelly to Allen]

5 minutes ago, FireChans said:

They were close, but they weren't.

 

When Brady and BB were together, they played in 13 conference championship games.

 

Peyton played in 5. 4 of them were against Brady.

 

Brady played in 10 Superbowls and won 7. 

 

Peyton played in 4 Superbowls and won 2.

 

Peyton was a great player. One of the best QB's ever. He was never on the cusp of overthrowing the Pats dynasty.  He got a couple on them, but it was the Pats-era just like its the Chiefs-era now.

 

 

If the bills win the super bowl the person I'll be most happy for is McDermott. I know we can be tough on him but he's such a great leader and good person. He's one of the good ppl in life that deserves a championship 

 

I have forgiven him for 13 seconds and hope he's our coach like Landry was for Dallas 

Edited 1 hour ago by Kelly to Allen

[Ray Stonada]

This thread makes me nervous and hopeful. I don’t usually look past the next game (BBFS coping device), so hearing so many people think we will get a Super Bowl or two is pretty dang exciting.