daz28 Posted February 4 Posted February 4 "but her emails". The OPM order was sent through an "unknown" server. Musk DOGE on US treasury: They also sought access to the underlying code, the person said — alarming some Treasury staff, because the operation of this infrastructure is tightly controlled due to its critical position in the US financial system. It’s unclear whether the duo have obtained direct access to the code and why they would want it, according to people familiar with the situation. Congress controls the purse, so how can the executive branch appoint a "special employee" to screw with the payment system? I get that the Treasury is part of the executive branch, but that doesn't mean the president can do anything he wants at any department. If this was true, then Biden would have pushed through student loan debt. Sure, the courts can call this illegal after the fact, though the damage is already done, and the short-sighted SCOTUS says you can't prosecute this "official action" anyways. What a mess. At the end of the day, Elon has all our information, and apparently, no one cares about being "spied on" anymore. 1
JDHillFan Posted February 4 Author Posted February 4 14 minutes ago, daz28 said: At the end of the day, Elon has all our information, What does “all our information” consist of? Is it more than what the government has had all along? Or is it exactly the same information the government has had all along?
Doc Posted February 4 Posted February 4 1 minute ago, daz28 said: "but her emails". The OPM order was sent through an "unknown" server. Musk DOGE on US treasury: They also sought access to the underlying code, the person said — alarming some Treasury staff, because the operation of this infrastructure is tightly controlled due to its critical position in the US financial system. It’s unclear whether the duo have obtained direct access to the code and why they would want it, according to people familiar with the situation. Congress controls the purse, so how can the executive branch appoint a "special employee" to screw with the payment system? I get that the Treasury is part of the executive branch, but that doesn't mean the president can do anything he wants at any department. If this was true, then Biden would have pushed through student loan debt. Sure, the courts can call this illegal after the fact, though the damage is already done, and the short-sighted SCOTUS says you can't prosecute this "official action" anyways. What a mess. At the end of the day, Elon has all our information, and apparently, no one cares about being "spied on" anymore. Giving away money is controlling the purse, which isn't his job. Looking into a payment system isn't controlling the purse. And you're paranoid about being spied on by Musk? Because he hasn't had the ability all along to do it?
daz28 Posted February 4 Posted February 4 4 minutes ago, Doc said: Giving away money is controlling the purse, which isn't his job. Looking into a payment system isn't controlling the purse. And you're paranoid about being spied on by Musk? Because he hasn't had the ability all along to do it? As we speak, people are cheering to lock up the people who were "spying". That's fine as long as they get all of them, including those in the current administration, before they get pardoned. Bottom line it's unconstitutional, and illegal. We're in a fine mess, no matter how much some people want to believe this is 'all for the better'. 1
Doc Posted February 4 Posted February 4 Just now, daz28 said: As we speak, people are cheering to lock up the people who were "spying". That's fine as long as they get all of them, including those in the current administration, before they get pardoned. Bottom line it's unconstitutional, and illegal. We're in a fine mess, no matter how much some people want to believe this is 'all for the better'. You're assuming Musk wants to spy on people using the Treasury department. He doesn't.
daz28 Posted February 4 Posted February 4 8 minutes ago, JDHillFan said: What does “all our information” consist of? Is it more than what the government has had all along? Or is it exactly the same information the government has had all along? How would they get more information from the government, than the government already has? Whatever is done is done, and we'll have to wait(forever) for the courts to get around to adjudicate this. The pisser is that if found out to be illegal, the penalty is "woops". 2 minutes ago, Doc said: You're assuming Musk wants to spy on people using the Treasury department. He doesn't. Glad you're so sure.
JDHillFan Posted February 4 Author Posted February 4 Just now, daz28 said: How would they get more information from the government, than the government already has? Whatever is done is done, and we'll have to wait(forever) for the courts to get around to adjudicate this. The pisser is that if found out to be illegal, the penalty is "woops". The original question - what is “all our information” that Musk is in possession of? Just trying to understand what you mean by that.
Doc Posted February 4 Posted February 4 3 minutes ago, daz28 said: Glad you're so sure. Yup, pretty sure. Again, if he wanted our information he would have gotten it already. 1
daz28 Posted February 4 Posted February 4 (edited) 6 minutes ago, JDHillFan said: The original question - what is “all our information” that Musk is in possession of? Just trying to understand what you mean by that. I can't tell you exactly what it is, because I have not breached the system myself, but this is the only point that matters: She added, "It could also give them access to millions of Americans' personal and financial information that is protected by law." 3 minutes ago, Doc said: Yup, pretty sure. Again, if he wanted our information he would have gotten it already. Legally? If you're going to borrow my lawnmower, I'm not going to ask you why. if you ask for the treasury and OPM data, I'm asking why. Edited February 4 by daz28
JDHillFan Posted February 4 Author Posted February 4 Just now, daz28 said: I can't tell you exactly what it is, because I have not breached the system myself, but this is the only point that matters: She added, "It could also give them access to millions of Americans' personal and financial information that is protected by law." Legally? Who is “she” that added “it could”? Sounds terrifying.
daz28 Posted February 4 Posted February 4 1 minute ago, JDHillFan said: Who is “she” that added “it could”? Sounds terrifying. Warren.
JDHillFan Posted February 4 Author Posted February 4 2 minutes ago, daz28 said: Warren. Well then. I’m now satisfied hearing that it came from an even-keeled US senator. An indigenous person at that. I understand why you didn’t want to attribute.
Doc Posted February 4 Posted February 4 3 minutes ago, daz28 said: Legally? If you're going to borrow my lawnmower, I'm not going to ask you why. if you ask for the treasury and OPM data, I'm asking why. It's more like asking for the instruction manual on how to fix the lawnmower.
daz28 Posted February 4 Posted February 4 1 minute ago, JDHillFan said: Well then. I’m now satisfied hearing that it came from an even-keeled US senator. An indigenous person at that. I understand why you didn’t want to attribute. Unfortunately, now it's my job to remove her partisanship from the discussion, even though it's true. The treasury dept secretary quit on the spot, when they demanded access. He literally now controls the US checkbook, and has already canceled some payments. Musk and DOGE "now have access to the personal information of every Social Security beneficiary — and the ability to stop payments for any federal programs they dislike," said Max Richtman, CEO of the National Committee to Preserve Social Security and Medicare I'm all for DOGE identifying waste, but the deciding what, and having the ability to cut whatever they want, whenever they want, isn't constitutional. Congress decides what is spent, after the proposed budget is delivered by the president. 8 minutes ago, Doc said: It's more like asking for the instruction manual on how to fix the lawnmower. No, they now control access to the lawnmower.
JDHillFan Posted February 4 Author Posted February 4 4 minutes ago, daz28 said: Unfortunately, now it's my job to remove her partisanship from the discussion, even though it's true. The treasury dept secretary quit on the spot, when they demanded access. He literally now controls the US checkbook, and has already canceled some payments. Musk and DOGE "now have access to the personal information of every Social Security beneficiary — and the ability to stop payments for any federal programs they dislike," said Max Richtman, CEO of the National Committee to Preserve Social Security and Medicare I'm all for DOGE identifying waste, but the deciding what, and having the ability to cut whatever they want, whenever they want, isn't constitutional. Congress decides what is spent, after the proposed budget is delivered by the president. Musk and his gang of nerds are identifying crap that can and should be cut. If, as you say, they shouldn’t be identifying what should be cut/adjusted, then what is the point? He doesn’t have the power to “cut whatever they want”. His crew will be making recommendations and as seen, making them quickly. The handwringing is a bit much.
daz28 Posted February 4 Posted February 4 1 minute ago, JDHillFan said: Musk and his gang of nerds are identifying crap that can and should be cut. If, as you say, they shouldn’t be identifying what should be cut/adjusted, then what is the point? He doesn’t have the power to “cut whatever they want”. His crew will be making recommendations and as seen, making them quickly. The handwringing is a bit much. They have no need for Americans personal information to identify waste. They literally have the power of the checkbook. They should be identifying things, and then recommending to Congress. He already has "cut whatever he wants": On Sunday, Musk stated that DOGE had stopped payments from the U.S. Department of Health and Human services to Lutheran Family Services, a faith-based charity that had been offering social services to refugees. This isn't handwringing. This is unconstitutional and illegal. 1
daz28 Posted February 4 Posted February 4 Additionally, he continued, "at my direction, legislation will be introduced shortly to prevent unlawful access to the Department of Treasury Bureau of the Fiscal Service payment system that contains highly confidential and personal information related to Social Security and Medicare recipients, taxpayers, households, nonprofits, businesses and federal contractors." Musk's Department of Government Efficiency task force has reportedly seized control of the Treasury payment systems with a team of software engineers aged 19 to 24, and Musk himself has already bragged about "deleting" certain parts of the civil service, including the team that helped implement the Internal Revenue Service's new Direct File tax system that gives taxpayers an end run around private for-profit tax filing services. Shortly after certain news outfits and online activists began circulating the names of those engineers, Trump's acting federal prosecutor in charge of D.C. sent out a memo threatening to investigate or criminally sanction anyone who may be involved in "imped[ing]" the work of Musk's team. The DOJ is literally threatening them if they don't allow illegal access to the data, hand over control, or identify members of the unelected "nerds".
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