Attack of the Mack....Hollins

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

He seems to be a good locker room guy too.  

 

As bad as Lawrence is, Brian Thomas and Christian Kirk are well ahead of him in numbers.

Some guy named Brenton Strange, a back up tight end has one more reception and the same amount of TD's as Gabe Davis.  

 

point is the thread is hyping Hollins when he's a guy who has barely caught half his targets and has dropped 10%---that's performance that was frowned upon last year. 

 

If the thread was "Mack Hollins is Gabe Davis for a fraction of the cost", that would be pretty accurate.

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

 

point is the thread is hyping Hollins when he's a guy who has barely caught half his targets and has dropped 10%---that's performance that was frowned upon last year. 

 

If the thread was "Mack Hollins is Gabe Davis for a fraction of the cost", that would be pretty accurate.

 

Gabe Davis was our #2 with very bad drops.  He was our #2, Mack is our #5 and not held in the same regard.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

He’s a lovely human.

[Ray Stonada]

 

Ya gotta love this. The guy gets it. 

[bills742]

 

[MJS]

On 11/12/2024 at 11:58 AM, FireChans said:

No. I just don’t think it’s a coincidence that when Mack is more involved, Josh has pretty bad stat lines.

 

Mack’s great game and Josh’s 66 passer rating seem inherently linked imo. Just like when Mack got a team leading 6 targets vs Houston and Josh completed 9 passes. Or when Mack was second on the team in targets vs Baltimore and Josh had a 73.9 passer rating and we lost by 25.
 

I want Mack to be Hines Ward. I don’t think he is.

Josh Allen has a passer rating of 110.85 when targeting Mack Hollins. Your theory makes no sense.

[HappyDays]

51 minutes ago, MJS said:

Josh Allen has a passer rating of 110.85 when targeting Mack Hollins. Your theory makes no sense.

 

Yeah but on all those snaps where he's not targeting him it's because he isn't getting open. Allen's worst two games of the year were Houston and Indy, no coincidence that in those two games Hollins was asked to be a full time starter.

 

We came into the season with Hollins as our #2 outside WR and clearly he is not built for that kind of role which thankfully Beane recognized. Now that he's a depth WR who only needs to play in case of injury he is fulfilling his role admirably. Nothing more, nothing less.

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah but on all those snaps where he's not targeting him it's because he isn't getting open. Allen's worst two games of the year were Houston and Indy, no coincidence that in those two games Hollins was asked to be a full time starter.

 

We came into the season with Hollins as our #2 outside WR and clearly he is not built for that kind of role which thankfully Beane recognized. Now that he's a depth WR who only needs to play in case of injury he is fulfilling his role admirably. Nothing more, nothing less.

I couldn’t have said it better 

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah but on all those snaps where he's not targeting him it's because he isn't getting open. Allen's worst two games of the year were Houston and Indy, no coincidence that in those two games Hollins was asked to be a full time starter.

 

We came into the season with Hollins as our #2 outside WR and clearly he is not built for that kind of role which thankfully Beane recognized. Now that he's a depth WR who only needs to play in case of injury he is fulfilling his role admirably. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

Come on...this is way over the top for you Happy.  One, there is Coleman, Shakir, Kincaid, Cooper, Cook, Davis, Knox, even Samuel still on this team.  To say that when Mack, essentially a 5th option or so, isn't being targeted is because he isn't getting open is ridiculous.  Not to mention, he has gotten open more than many of you want to admit.  

 

And sorry, Mack had nothing to do with Allens bad games against Hou and Indy.  The mistakes Allen made in those games were almost entirely on him, especially Houston which was easily the worst I have seen him play.  And it was not because he didn't have options out there, he was making poor throws and poor decisions in both games, especially Houston.  Against Houston, he was missing open receivers all game, both on throws and just not seeing them.  Allen decisions on the final drive when he had multiple wide open guys underneath are a big reason why we lost that game in regulation too.  

 

Meanwhile, Hollins has been a key contributor in back to back wins now (as well as other wins this season) but this board still wants to just dump on him and look past those things.  I mean the guy is like our 5th or 6th option essentially, yet there is this obsession on the board to make him the season long whipping boy and scape goat even when he does good things...doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

 

Edited 17 hours ago by Alphadawg7

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah but on all those snaps where he's not targeting him it's because he isn't getting open. Allen's worst two games of the year were Houston and Indy, no coincidence that in those two games Hollins was asked to be a full time starter.

 

We came into the season with Hollins as our #2 outside WR and clearly he is not built for that kind of role which thankfully Beane recognized. Now that he's a depth WR who only needs to play in case of injury he is fulfilling his role admirably. Nothing more, nothing less.

Had to throw that zinger in.  He’s made major contributions the past 2 games.  He’s helping us win game.  It’s definitely “more” as compared to “less”.

[Saxum]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Come on...this is way over the top for you Happy.  One, there is Coleman, Shakir, Kincaid, Cooper, Cook, Davis, Knox, even Samuel still on this team.  To say that when Mack, essentially a 5th option or so, isn't being targeted is because he isn't getting open is ridiculous.  Not to mention, he has gotten open more than many of you want to admit.  

 

And sorry, Mack had nothing to do with Allens bad games against Hou and Indy.  The mistakes Allen made in those games were almost entirely on him, especially Houston which was easily the worst I have seen him play.  And it was not because he didn't have options out there, he was making poor throws and poor decisions in both games, especially Houston.  Against Houston, he was missing open receivers all game, both on throws and just not seeing them.  Allen decisions on the final drive when he had multiple wide open guys underneath are a big reason why we lost that game in regulation too.  

 

Meanwhile, Hollins has been a key contributor in back to back wins now (as well as other wins this season) but this board still wants to just dump on him and look past those things.  I mean the guy is like our 5th or 6th option essentially, yet there is this obsession on the board to make him the season long whipping boy and scape goat even when he does good things...doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

Mack Hollins has the same problem Josh Allen has in get MVP award - melanin deficiency. 

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Come on...this is way over the top for you Happy.  One, there is Coleman, Shakir, Kincaid, Cooper, Cook, Davis, Knox, even Samuel still on this team.  To say that when Mack, essentially a 5th option or so, isn't being targeted is because he isn't getting open is ridiculous.  Not to mention, he has gotten open more than many of you want to admit.  

 

I mean in the games where he's been asked to be more than just a depth WR with limited targets, Allen objectively has had worse stats. I have nothing against Hollins at all. In fact he's been better than I expected and I can admit I was wrong about him - I called him another Trent Sherfield when we signed him and he has been a clear step above that. I'm just saying he is not a player you want as one of your starters outside. He is a depth piece and a minor role player who has done as much as could be reasonably expected.

 

The post I was responding to mentioned Allen's passer rating when targeting Hollins, and I'm saying that that alone isn't enough to summarize Hollins' value to the offense. The fact is that in games when Hollins is targeted a lot, the passing offense's performance declines. Here's Hollins' games this year ranked by total targets:

 

Baltimore - 6

Houston - 6

Miami (home) - 5

Indy - 4

Jax - 2

NYJ - 2

Arizona - 2

Tennessee - 1

Miami (away) - 1

Seattle - 0

 

If you were to rank the passing offense from worst game to best game it would look very similar to that list. Miami at home is the one glaring exception. Clearly the passing offense is better when Hollins is targeted 0-2 times per game.

 

Edited 16 hours ago by HappyDays

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

I mean in the games where he's been asked to be more than just a depth WR with limited targets, Allen objectively has had worse stats. I have nothing against Hollins at all. In fact he's been better than I expected and I can admit I was wrong about him - I called him another Trent Sherfield when we signed him and he has been a clear step above that. I'm just saying he is not a player you want as one of your starters outside. He is a depth piece and a minor role player who has done as much as could be reasonably expected.

 

The post I was responding to mentioned Allen's passer rating when targeting Hollins, and I'm saying that that alone isn't enough to summarize Hollins' value to the offense. The fact is that in games when Hollins is targeted a lot, the passing offense's performance declines. Here's Hollins' games this year ranked by total targets:

 

Baltimore - 6

Houston - 6

Miami (home) - 5

Indy - 4

Jax - 2

NYJ - 2

Arizona - 2

Tennessee - 1

Miami (away) - 1

Seattle - 0

 

If you were to rank the passing offense from worst game to best game it would look very similar to that list. Miami at home is the one glaring exception. Clearly the passing offense is better when Hollins is targeted 0-2 times per game.

 

You mean Josh isn’t as good when we’re down our top catchers and Hollins is our WR 1-2?  Say it ain’t so?

[Saxum]

10 minutes ago, NewEra said:

You mean Josh isn’t as good when we’re down our top catchers and Hollins is our WR 1-2?  Say it ain’t so?

 

Bills should sign Kelvin Benjamin and Robert Foster to PS and elevate them so he can have WR 1-2 he is used to throwing to.

[HappyDays]

15 minutes ago, NewEra said:

You mean Josh isn’t as good when we’re down our top catchers and Hollins is our WR 1-2?  Say it ain’t so?

 

Correct. Hollins is a solid depth piece and minor role player. Nothing more, nothing less. Like I said.

[GoBillsForeverAndAlways]

On 11/12/2024 at 12:11 PM, blacklabel said:

Yeah, I know virtually nobody was excited to sign this guy. 

 

I just thought this stat of his was neat: he has 16 receptions on the year. Three of those went for touchdowns. The other 13? All first downs. That's neat. 

That's very neat. Mack is great and I'm looking forward to seeing how he does against the Chiefs, I have a feeling he'll be a real force and will help us out a lot.

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Correct. Hollins is a solid depth piece and minor role player. Nothing more, nothing less. Like I said.

No-  he is more.  He’s made several huge catches that simple

role players don’t really make. Many of his catches have been in crucial times.  
 

just because he isn’t a good WR1-2 doesn’t mean he isn’t more than a minor role player.  Guys like Trent Sheffield were minor role players. Hollins is clearly more than that.  He’s just not a WR1-3

[FireChans]

3 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

I mean in the games where he's been asked to be more than just a depth WR with limited targets, Allen objectively has had worse stats. I have nothing against Hollins at all. In fact he's been better than I expected and I can admit I was wrong about him - I called him another Trent Sherfield when we signed him and he has been a clear step above that. I'm just saying he is not a player you want as one of your starters outside. He is a depth piece and a minor role player who has done as much as could be reasonably expected.

 

The post I was responding to mentioned Allen's passer rating when targeting Hollins, and I'm saying that that alone isn't enough to summarize Hollins' value to the offense. The fact is that in games when Hollins is targeted a lot, the passing offense's performance declines. Here's Hollins' games this year ranked by total targets:

 

Baltimore - 6

Houston - 6

Miami (home) - 5

Indy - 4

Jax - 2

NYJ - 2

Arizona - 2

Tennessee - 1

Miami (away) - 1

Seattle - 0

 

If you were to rank the passing offense from worst game to best game it would look very similar to that list. Miami at home is the one glaring exception. Clearly the passing offense is better when Hollins is targeted 0-2 times per game.

 

You will learn to bow at the Mack Hollins altar!

[GoBills808]

14 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Gabe Davis was our #2 with very bad drops.  He was our #2, Mack is our #5 and not held in the same regard.  

Hollins has the third most targets at WR

Davis had the second most last season

 

If you add in TEs Hollins has fourth most targets this season and Davis had third in 2023

 

 

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Hollins has the third most targets at WR

Davis had the second most last season

 

If you add in TEs Hollins has fourth most targets this season and Davis had third in 2023

 

 

 

Yep. Some of that is obviously driven by injuries the past two weeks to Cooper and Coleman but more of it is also driven by going into the season with Mack Hollins as a starter before the trade for Cooper. And that's on Brandon Beane. The fact that the Bills are 8-2 despite it does not change the fact it was a poor example of roster building.