Attack of the Mack....Hollins

[Mr. WEO]

21 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Gabe Davis was our #2 with very bad drops.  He was our #2, Mack is our #5 and not held in the same regard.  

 

well...Beane and McD made him WR2, having neglected the WR room for years.

 

And his drop rate is zero this year, 3.7% last year. 

[HappyDays]

12 hours ago, NewEra said:

No-  he is more.  He’s made several huge catches that simple

role players don’t really make. Many of his catches have been in crucial times.  
 

just because he isn’t a good WR1-2 doesn’t mean he isn’t more than a minor role player.  Guys like Trent Sheffield were minor role players. Hollins is clearly more than that.  He’s just not a WR1-3

 

Sherfield isn't a minor role player, he's an unrosterable player. Hollins has shown he's a rosterable player that ideally is WR5 on the depth chart. A very good WR5 at that especially since he plays special teams.

 

I just don't agree that minor role players can't make important catches. Even Sherfield made one of the catches of the year against Miami last year. I like that Hollins has grown some chemistry with Allen. None of his catches against Indy were plays where he outright won a rep against a CB, but he had some savvy plays making himself available to his QB and caught the ball when thrown his way. That is what you want your WR5 to do when forced into action.

 

A lot of the posts in this thread have somewhat of a "told ya so" cast. As in, all the people that said Hollins isn't a good WR were wrong. Like I said I happily admit he is better than the unrosterable player that I pegged him as when we signed him. But the WR room very clearly was not good enough to start the year and Hollins being one of our two starting outside WRs was a big reason why. The passing offense has been very inconsistent whenever he's been asked to go above his ideal 0-2 targets per game. Luckily Allen is playing the best football of his career and that means Hollins has been enough to get us out of most games when called upon.

[Rocky Landing]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yep. Some of that is obviously driven by injuries the past two weeks to Cooper and Coleman but more of it is also driven by going into the season with Mack Hollins as a starter before the trade for Cooper. And that's on Brandon Beane. The fact that the Bills are 8-2 despite it does not change the fact it was a poor example of roster building. 

I don't believe they acquired Hollins with the intention of making him a starter. Beane's roster building notwithstanding, I think Hollins' ascension speaks more to Samuel, and MVS underperforming than Beane overvaluing Hollins. I think it's also worth remembering that the Bills are spending over $30M in cap on WRs who are no longer on the team.

 

Of course, all of that is on Beane. But, I think we're lucky that Hollins has stepped up to the extent he has.

 

Edited November 14 by Rocky Landing

[Saxum]

1 hour ago, Rocky Landing said:

I don't believe they acquired Hollins with the intention of making him a starter. Beane's roster building notwithstanding, I think Hollins' ascension speaks more to Samuel, and MVS underperforming than Beane overvaluing Hollins. I think it's also worth remembering that the Bills are spending over $30M in cap on WRs who are no longer on the team.

 

Of course, all of that is on Beane. But, I think we're lucky that Hollins has stepped up to the extent he has.

 

 

That is right - none of the spending is due to players not making effort. They are completely blameless even when they have a fit when being well paid.

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Sherfield isn't a minor role player, he's an unrosterable player. Hollins has shown he's a rosterable player that ideally is WR5 on the depth chart. A very good WR5 at that especially since he plays special teams.

 

I just don't agree that minor role players can't make important catches. Even Sherfield made one of the catches of the year against Miami last year. I like that Hollins has grown some chemistry with Allen. None of his catches against Indy were plays where he outright won a rep against a CB, but he had some savvy plays making himself available to his QB and caught the ball when thrown his way. That is what you want your WR5 to do when forced into action.

 

A lot of the posts in this thread have somewhat of a "told ya so" cast. As in, all the people that said Hollins isn't a good WR were wrong. Like I said I happily admit he is better than the unrosterable player that I pegged him as when we signed him. But the WR room very clearly was not good enough to start the year and Hollins being one of our two starting outside WRs was a big reason why. The passing offense has been very inconsistent whenever he's been asked to go above his ideal 0-2 targets per game. Luckily Allen is playing the best football of his career and that means Hollins has been enough to get us out of most games when called upon.

Last season, Trent sherfield was a minor role player.  That’s what he actually was. That’s what he actually is this season.  Regardless of what you think he might be….this is the reality.  You thought Mack was Trent 2.0.  
 

i won’t get into this with you anymore.  Continue to downplay him all you want.  You’ll just continue to be wrong

[NewEra]

 

He’s like Encino Man!!  Had me rolling.  Brendan Fraser as his best 😂 

[Alphadawg7]

On 11/13/2024 at 3:21 PM, HappyDays said:

 

I mean in the games where he's been asked to be more than just a depth WR with limited targets, Allen objectively has had worse stats. I have nothing against Hollins at all. In fact he's been better than I expected and I can admit I was wrong about him - I called him another Trent Sherfield when we signed him and he has been a clear step above that. I'm just saying he is not a player you want as one of your starters outside. He is a depth piece and a minor role player who has done as much as could be reasonably expected.

 

The post I was responding to mentioned Allen's passer rating when targeting Hollins, and I'm saying that that alone isn't enough to summarize Hollins' value to the offense. The fact is that in games when Hollins is targeted a lot, the passing offense's performance declines. Here's Hollins' games this year ranked by total targets:

 

Baltimore - 6

Houston - 6

Miami (home) - 5

Indy - 4

Jax - 2

NYJ - 2

Arizona - 2

Tennessee - 1

Miami (away) - 1

Seattle - 0

 

If you were to rank the passing offense from worst game to best game it would look very similar to that list. Miami at home is the one glaring exception. Clearly the passing offense is better when Hollins is targeted 0-2 times per game.

 

 

This is a much more fair accounting of him than the post of yours I responded to, so kudos on that.  And I agree with what his role is and should be.  

 

However, I still am going to push back some on the correlation you are making about Allens worst game and Hollins targets.  Allen played poorly and missed throws, opportunities, etc all over the field in Houston and some against Indy.  These were things Allen was doing poorly, not that Allen had no help or no one to throw to.  

 

I love Allen as much or more than anyone.  Anytime he is on my TV or phone my wife says "hide your b***r" lol...but Allen gets to own his poor play too.  Allen was the worst player on the field against Houston offensively for a large part of that game, he was considerably off.  And his going rogue on the final drive when he had open guys underneath is a huge reason why we still lost that game.  Against Indy, he made some poor choices, missed open receivers on throws or just didn't see them, etc.  It was Allen who made those mistakes and left a lot on the field.  

 

Had Allen been playing his tail off and guys like Hollins were letting him down, I would totally support your correlation.  But the facts were the mistakes were self imposed by Allen, and not because he didn't have options out there or open targets.  

 

Edited November 15 by Alphadawg7