Kincaid update? (now declared OUT for Sunday)

[LABILLBACKER]

19 hours ago, GoBillsForeverAndAlways said:

Really hoping Kincaid is back for Sunday as we could sure use him for this one! We need as many receiving options as possible

Not likely unless he practices tomorrow?

[Shaw66]

22 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

It definitely wasn't the best throw I ever saw and as I've explained this was more hyperbole to show a lot of times when a ball is that close , the receiver at the NFL level can do a better job of tracking it or taking a better angle or a better burst 

 

I haven't watched this play five times back to come to a complete conclusion but I have noticed that Dalton does seem to lose a little burst tracking a ball over his shoulder occasionally 

 

As I said even going from 17 to 15 miles an hour could be the difference between a catch and hitting your fingertip

 

Thanks, and I agree about the last point. If he lost any speed that a good receiver wouldn't, that was the difference between a completion and a near miss.

[Bockeye]

22 hours ago, Augie said:

 

I’ll be honest, I feel the play calling is wonky at times. It seems like we were forcing the ball to Samuel last game, and I’m not sure if that was a need. It seemed forced, rather than opportunistic.

 

I think Kincaid can be used all over the field, but it would help a LOT if we had some other healthy options. I still see a speedy deep threat as a priority this offseason, and maybe that helps open things up. When we get Cooper and Coleman back 100% things could look very different.

 

I like the way the RB’s are being used. The WR’s have faced a lot of injuries. The TE’s seem like we could be getting more. Someone smarter than me with All-22 needs to figure out why that is. I believe in Kincaid’s talent. 

 

Oh, and I don’t hear any of the WNY media, so I wasn’t aware that was a theme. 

Agreed 100%!

 

Am I crazy, or was there a time when it would take most WR’s and TE’s at least 2-3 years to develop?

[Augie]

7 minutes ago, Bockeye said:

Agreed 100%!

 

Am I crazy, or was there a time when it would take most WR’s and TE’s at least 2-3 years to develop?

 

I think just like QB’s, these younger WRs have been doing 7 on 7 camps for thousands of reps before they ever even get to college now. I know my kids did 7 on 7 camps at USF (Tampa) that brought teams from all over, and it was like a giant football summer camp for QBs, WRs, TEs and DBs. 

 

I think they are generally much more prepared than in years/decades past. 

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, Andrew Son said:

Before Allen have you ever heard of a QB with too strong of an arm for a deep ball?

 

Seems like a relatively simple fix just to use more loft

Not enough trajectory in Josh's deeper throws has been a flaw since day 1.

[Ayjent]

12 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Not enough trajectory in Josh's deeper throws has been a flaw since day 1.

He did hit Knox on a similar route on the other side later in the game.  They clearly wanted to attack the Colts with those routes.  The difference seemed to me to be a better throw to Knox.  If he hits Kincaid on that route the game may have been an even more lopsided win than it was.

 

Its funny because i think the national media saw that game as closer than it was. The Bills completely controlled the game once they got the ball back after going down 13-10.  The only valid criticism is that they never should have found themselves down and their weaknesses on both sides were highlighted during that chunk of the game. But it also highlights the adaptations this coaching staff is able to put together.  Maybe they arent the team that is going to be able to elevate their game against better competition, but i also think that is what makes this game against kc interesting. Id love to have kincaid available for it, but if not i still think the TEs are going to be a big factor.  

Edited November 15 by Ayjent

[CSBill]

Is this the week that Zach Davidson gets his big opportunity?

 

If I remember correctly, he was an All-Training Camp TE, seemingly catching everything thrown his way.

[Rockinon]

2 hours ago, CSBill said:

Is this the week that Zach Davidson gets his big opportunity?

 

If I remember correctly, he was an All-Training Camp TE, seemingly catching everything thrown his way.

I completely forgot about him. Even Morris has been dependable when called up. The Bills have some depth at the TE position. Anyone notice these other TEs getting reps in practice this week?

[Eastport bills]

15 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Not enough trajectory in Josh's deeper throws has been a flaw since day 1.

NFL receivers since the beginning of time believe you get two hands on a ball it should be caught. Josh has some good possession receivers(Shakir, Hollins, Coleman, Knox) but 0 vertical threats. His best chance for longer completions is a lower trajectory back shoulder or just putting the ball right on his guys who win on contested throws. Dropping long throws from the sky, like Russ, doesn’t fit our receivers.

[DCofNC]

17 hours ago, Bockeye said:

Agreed 100%!

 

Am I crazy, or was there a time when it would take most WR’s and TE’s at least 2-3 years to develop?

There was a time, but that time has passed.   It also doesn’t help that Kincaid came in an immediately had a good season, now has disappeared.   I don’t know exactly what the deal is, but SOMETHING is wrong in the big picture here.  Since Brady took over, the most talented guys on offense have all had their roles diminished, to the point of lunacy.   “Everybody eats” is all well and good, but when you have to have it, you have big dogs and they don’t get the ball.  Kincaid is on pace for less catches, yards and TDs than his rookie year, Knox is all but invisible, Diggs fell off a cliff, now Samuel can’t find anything after being a 1000 yard guy, Shakir is performing, but it’s all YAC and he’s still going to struggle to break 1000, Coleman and Cooper have been merely situational guys thus far.  Before anybody gets on the last sentence and goes off the deep end, I know Coop hasn’t been here long, but not being able to get a guy that’s been around that long more than 3 looks a game is silly. 
 

I think the scheme is pretty sad honestly.  The  RBs have something, but JA’s effectiveness is down as are all the skill positions.  I just don’t see it.  They have been mauled by real competition thus far, this week will be really telling.

[Dr. K]

2 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

There was a time, but that time has passed.   It also doesn’t help that Kincaid came in an immediately had a good season, now has disappeared.   I don’t know exactly what the deal is, but SOMETHING is wrong in the big picture here.  Since Brady took over, the most talented guys on offense have all had their roles diminished, to the point of lunacy.   “Everybody eats” is all well and good, but when you have to have it, you have big dogs and they don’t get the ball.  Kincaid is on pace for less catches, yards and TDs than his rookie year, Knox is all but invisible, Diggs fell off a cliff, now Samuel can’t find anything after being a 1000 yard guy, Shakir is performing, but it’s all YAC and he’s still going to struggle to break 1000, Coleman and Cooper have been merely situational guys thus far.  Before anybody gets on the last sentence and goes off the deep end, I know Coop hasn’t been here long, but not being able to get a guy that’s been around that long more than 3 looks a game is silly. 
 

I think the scheme is pretty sad honestly.  The  RBs have something, but JA’s effectiveness is down as are all the skill positions.  I just don’t see it.  They have been mauled by real competition thus far, this week will be really telling.

And yet the Bills are averaging 29 points per game, third in the league, and have gone 8-2 so far this season. 

[Bockeye]

5 minutes ago, Dr. K said:

And yet the Bills are averaging 29 points per game, third in the league, and have gone 8-2 so far this season. 

That’s what is befuddling.  We are putting up points!  We sure as hell don’t look like the greatest show on turf though. 
 

8-2 is phenomenal and like most fans, happy as hell, but is it fair to ask if we could get more with a different coordinator?  How many points would Andy Reid put up with this squad? The same?

 

Sincerely, 

A Greedy ****

[Jerome007]

27 minutes ago, Bockeye said:

How many points would Andy Reid put up with this squad?

32 teams. One Andy Reid. Do I think he is levels above Brady? Sure. But it doesn't make the Bills OC suck!

 

It is crazy how the Bills have put on lots of points, won 8 games, yet WRs and TEs have subpar stats! IMO, it's actually a great thing. They are not as vulnerable to injuries or opposing teams taking out their star player(s) with schemes. Plus they'll still be good in the winter weather.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Dalton Kincaid is out. 

 

Not shocking. 

Reading between the lines, Dalton is not considered a long term injury. 

 

Week to Week. 

 

Not surprising, I think that confirms he has a strained PCL. 

[jcamm1966]

6 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Dalton Kincaid is out. 

 

Not shocking. 

Reading between the lines, Dalton is not considered a long term injury. 

 

Week to Week. 

 

Not surprising, I think that confirms he has a strained PCL. 

Rest him no need to risk it with bye coming up

[Straight Hucklebuck]

2 hours ago, DCofNC said:

There was a time, but that time has passed.   It also doesn’t help that Kincaid came in an immediately had a good season, now has disappeared.   I don’t know exactly what the deal is, but SOMETHING is wrong in the big picture here.  Since Brady took over, the most talented guys on offense have all had their roles diminished, to the point of lunacy.   “Everybody eats” is all well and good, but when you have to have it, you have big dogs and they don’t get the ball.  Kincaid is on pace for less catches, yards and TDs than his rookie year, Knox is all but invisible, Diggs fell off a cliff, now Samuel can’t find anything after being a 1000 yard guy, Shakir is performing, but it’s all YAC and he’s still going to struggle to break 1000, Coleman and Cooper have been merely situational guys thus far.  Before anybody gets on the last sentence and goes off the deep end, I know Coop hasn’t been here long, but not being able to get a guy that’s been around that long more than 3 looks a game is silly. 
 

I think the scheme is pretty sad honestly.  The  RBs have something, but JA’s effectiveness is down as are all the skill positions.  I just don’t see it.  They have been mauled by real competition thus far, this week will be really telling.

This is a good thought - and thought provoking. 

 

It makes you start thinking about what is the core philosophy of this Bills offense? 

 

Greg Cosell has said that the Bills offense has no intermediate or deep pass game. I think that makes sense because the Bills have not invested in WR, and certainly haven't secured a deep threat since 2018 Robert Foster. 

 

Joe Marino has consistently mentioned the zone rush scheme improving as the season moves along, and the analytics are pointing to the Bills offensive line continuously improving. 

 

What is this scheme? Emphasis YAC by throwing short passes at the line of scrimmage, with blockers in place - Shakir and Samuel's targets come to mind, and isolated shot throws on the outside (thinking Coleman's 49-yarder against the Texans). Just remembering games as they play out, do not think the Bills get much over the middle. 

 

I think we've all seen the Kincaid-Knox tandem doesn't ever work together, it's either one or the other. Is there even a "Kincaid route" that he normally runs? 

 

Allen is running less. 

 

Which leaves a heavier run scheme, 15% 6-lineman on the field, a team that doesn't play with much tempo (almost always running the play clock to 0.0). 

 

What is the core philosophy? 

[DCofNC]

2 hours ago, Dr. K said:

And yet the Bills are averaging 29 points per game, third in the league, and have gone 8-2 so far this season. 

Yes, but the teams beaten have about 8 wins total.  This is where stats don’t tell the whole story.  The only contenders they played have beaten them and the offense was ATROCIOUS in both games.  Let’s be really honest, the Colts game was way too close and that was with 5 turnovers, one going for a TD.  
 

Remember the 10-0 Steelers that collapsed like a house of cards? Yeah, that’s what happens when your schedule is soft as a teddy early in the year.   This team hasn’t beaten anyone that’s a legitimate contender and got curb stomped by the Ravens and didn’t do much better against the Texans.  Hopefully that’s behind us, but let’s be honest, this team’s record is just as fluffed up as KC’s.

[RiotAct]

1 minute ago, DCofNC said:

Yes, but the teams beaten have about 8 wins total.  This is where stats don’t tell the whole story.  

I mean, Colts and Cardinals alone get you to 9…. EDIT: err, sorry, 10.

Edited November 15 by RiotAct

[PoundingDog]

16 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

What is the core philosophy? 

Does it matter?

 

What is Chiefs core philosophy? How about just win? They used to score 50 points on people regularly. Now they barely eke out 17 points.

 

What is Brady's Patriots core philosophy? They started dink and donk, run the ball a little. When they got Randy Moss, they dunked 50 on people.

 

The point is you tweak your scheme to maximize the talent you have. 

[DCofNC]

21 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

This is a good thought - and thought provoking. 

 

It makes you start thinking about what is the core philosophy of this Bills offense? 

 

Greg Cosell has said that the Bills offense has no intermediate or deep pass game. I think that makes sense because the Bills have not invested in WR, and certainly haven't secured a deep threat since 2018 Robert Foster. 

 

Joe Marino has consistently mentioned the zone rush scheme improving as the season moves along, and the analytics are pointing to the Bills offensive line continuously improving. 

 

What is this scheme? Emphasis YAC by throwing short passes at the line of scrimmage, with blockers in place - Shakir and Samuel's targets come to mind, and isolated shot throws on the outside (thinking Coleman's 49-yarder against the Texans). Just remembering games as they play out, do not think the Bills get much over the middle. 

 

I think we've all seen the Kincaid-Knox tandem doesn't ever work together, it's either one or the other. Is there even a "Kincaid route" that he normally runs? 

 

Allen is running less. 

 

Which leaves a heavier run scheme, 15% 6-lineman on the field, a team that doesn't play with much tempo (almost always running the play clock to 0.0). 

 

What is the core philosophy? 

I don’t think there is one to be real.   They want to control the ball, milk the clock, which is completely opposite of what you SHOULD do with a 1st ballot HOF QB.   They limit his number of opportunities to be great, which in some cases, can be good.. BUT…. They played with fire by not getting anyone who could stretch the field.  I questioned it all off season, what’s to stop the D from clogging the middle, taking away the TEs, Shakir and making it harder to run.  The only answer is short routes to the RBs in the flats and Allen making insane plays on the run where the deep spots come open.

 

Now, when it comes down to moving the ball WHEN YOU HAVE TO, the struggle is real.  It’s 100% on Allen to create something.  Somehow, they wanted to lessen the burden on Allen and if you see it as taking away the number of time he throws, they have.  BUT, they also took away any opportunity for him to easily move the ball when they need to. 

6 minutes ago, RiotAct said:

I mean, Colts and Cardinals alone get you to 9…. EDIT: err, sorry, 10.

Yes, it’s called hyperbole.  How about this, the combined win percentage of the teams is below .500

6 minutes ago, PoundingDog said:

Does it matter?

 

What is Chiefs core philosophy? How about just win? They used to score 50 points on people regularly. Now they barely eke out 17 points.

 

What is Brady's Patriots core philosophy? They started dink and donk, run the ball a little. When they got Randy Moss, they dunked 50 on people.

 

The point is you tweak your scheme to maximize the talent you have. 

I think the question is, are they maximizing the talent?  They have completely taken the ball out of the hands of 1st round pick Kincaid, high paid TE Knox, biggest FA acquisition Samuel, and have barely involved 1st pick this year in Keon and the new pro bowl WR Cooper.  The only guys getting “maximized” are the RBs.