This was suppose to be a rebuild year

[DrBob806]

8 hours ago, Gman10 said:

KC, 9ers and Rams are all going to be super tough. The Texans was a winnable game. Ravens on the other hand....yikes.
 

Cardinals are no.1 in the NFC west and we beat them

The 49ers might be ok now with CMC back, if he remains healthy. Very mediocre before yesterday, and barely beat TBay.

 

 

[Steptide]

I'm a glass half empty fan right now. While I'm happy with the 8-2 record, the two teams we've played with winning records, we've lost. Cardinals was probably our best win, and we've struggled against bad teams at times. I believe if we ever to get to full strength (Milano, Cooper, Coleman) that will greatly improve this team, but we have a pretty tough 4 weeks ahead. That will be the real test imo

[NewEra]

54 minutes ago, Sweats said:

I think we can all agree that this was never going to be a rebuild year.......we're definitely reloading by getting rid of the Diggs baggage, trying to clean up the cap, getting younger on the roster, etc.

 

A reload will still have some growing pains, mind you, but we seem to be making it work thus far and how far or how long it's going to work for us at this point, is anyones guess.

Not all.  
 

maybe @BullBuchanancan explain to us why this IS a rebuilding year?

[folz]

13 hours ago, appoo said:

Keep in mind the bills have played 2 games against teams that will make the playoffs (probably), against the Ravens and Texans and lost both - (and got blown out by the Ravens).  

I think this is a good football team but probably the worst of the Lept Allen teams. 
 

But really games against the Chiefs and Niners will tell us much but right now my thinking is the team ends up with 4-5 losses and the 2/3 seed, wins a wild card and then loses the divisional to either Baltimore or KC or Houston.

 

And honestly that’s a good season for a group with a rookie WR as its best WR,  and what looks like a lack of blue chip across the DB other than Taron Johnson and across the front except Ed Oliver (who’s having a strange season)

 

I always think this is a poor argument. There are just too many variables for it to be a meaningful determination. For instance, Miami is a way different team with and without Tua. Miami's record is bad because they were without Tua for 4 games (they lost 3 during that stretch to Tenn, Seattle, and Indy). If Tua plays, those are all winnable games and their record could be 5-3 right now instead of 2-6---with 2 of the 3 losses to Buffalo and the other a 1-point loss to the 6-4 Cards). And guess what, both times that Buffalo played Miami Tua was behind center. So, were we playing a 2-6 team or a 4-4/5-3 team? Like I said, too many variables (injuries to their team, injuries to your team, when did you play them---every team has ups and downs in a season, etc.).

 

Right now, you'd look at K.C.'s schedule and think it's much tougher than ours. They've played SF, Ravens, Bengals, Bucs, etc. (But again, the Bucs without Evans and Godwin; SF without CMC, Deebo, Jajuan Jennings, and missing both their kicker Moody and backup kicker Wright...and Mason playing with a shoulder injury).

 

Again, looking at KC. [Using team's current records---which obviously will change over the next two weeks] IF we were to beat K.C (and then they beat Carolina while we are on Bye), when we come back from our bye, it would look like this.

 

Team           Record            Record of Opponents          Opponents Win %

Buffalo          9-2                        47-56                                   45.6%

Chiefs           10-1                       53-54                                   49.5%

 

When you think 11 games vs. 11 teams who have also played 11 games, we are talking about 121 total games. And then for two teams = 242 games. Does a 4-6 game difference in opponents' record across 242 games really tell us anything even if we don't take into account all of the variables? 6 of 242 is only 2.48% of the games.

 

I could just as easily pick stats to show Buffalo is better than KC: 

Bills: Total points: 290

          Point differential: +97

          avg. margin of victory: 15.63

 

Chiefs: Total points: 219

             Point differential: +58

             Avg. margin of victory: 6.44

 

But all stats go out the window when it's head to head because the NFL is a week-to-week league. All you can do is play and beat whoever is on your schedule.

 

 

And I think we all know what the OP meant with this thread, whether he used the word "rebuild" or "retool." He's pointing out that we are a much better team than a number of posters, fans, and media thought we would be, so he's giving props to the coaches and team.

 

There were definitely people in the off-season calling it a rebuild. There were a lot of people (not just nationally, but on this board) that thought this would be a big step back year for the Bills---possibly missing the playoffs. Why can't people just say, yeah, I'm happy that we are better than I thought we were going to be, let's hope it continues. Rather than, yeah, well let's see what they do in the playoffs first, or our record is easy, or qualify it in some other way. However you add it up, 8-2 is a very good season thus far and I do not see a team the Bills can't beat (there is no juggernaut team this season). So, why shouldn't our aspirations be a Super Bowl? And why shouldn't we give props to Sean and Brandon for keeping us a top-end team through a transition period? It may not be a rebuild, but it was a significant transition. Of the 62 players that played in a game for the Bills in 2023, 25 of them are gone. That's 40.32% of the roster turned over. That's pretty big. To keep the team winning through that is worthy of props, imo.

[Magox]

We can call it whatever we want to call it, rebuild, retool, rejigger or whatever.

 

This definitely was not a year where expectations from the media, most fans and most likely management believed that this was going to be a year where the Bills would be at 8 -2 at this stage.

 

Even though they were aging, replacing Micah and Poyer was always going to be a challenge and to a smaller extent Tre as well.    

 

Then losing Gabe Davis and Diggs was seen as an extremely challenging circumstance and pair that with a quality center in Morse, many people assumed the Bills would struggle.

 

It just goes to show you that coaching, JA and younger players stepping up have been able to overcome the perceived challenges going into the season.

[appoo]

22 minutes ago, folz said:

 

I always think this is a poor argument. There are just too many variables for it to be a meaningful determination. For instance, Miami is a way different team with and without Tua. Miami's record is bad because they were without Tua for 4 games (they lost 3 during that stretch to Tenn, Seattle, and Indy). If Tua plays, those are all winnable games and their record could be 5-3 right now instead of 2-6---with 2 of the 3 losses to Buffalo and the other a 1-point loss to the 6-4 Cards). And guess what, both times that Buffalo played Miami Tua was behind center. So, were we playing a 2-6 team or a 4-4/5-3 team? Like I said, too many variables (injuries to their team, injuries to your team, when did you play them---every team has ups and downs in a season, etc.).

 

Right now, you'd look at K.C.'s schedule and think it's much tougher than ours. They've played SF, Ravens, Bengals, Bucs, etc. (But again, the Bucs without Evans and Godwin; SF without CMC, Deebo, Jajuan Jennings, and missing both their kicker Moody and backup kicker Wright...and Mason playing with a shoulder injury).

 

Again, looking at KC. [Using team's current records---which obviously will change over the next two weeks] IF we were to beat K.C (and then they beat Carolina while we are on Bye), when we come back from our bye, it would look like this.

 

Team           Record            Record of Opponents          Opponents Win %

Buffalo          9-2                        47-56                                   45.6%

Chiefs           10-1                       53-54                                   49.5%

 

When you think 11 games vs. 11 teams who have also played 11 games, we are talking about 121 total games. And then for two teams = 242 games. Does a 4-6 game difference in opponents' record across 242 games really tell us anything even if we don't take into account all of the variables? 6 of 242 is only 2.48% of the games.

 

I could just as easily pick stats to show Buffalo is better than KC: 

Bills: Total points: 290

          Point differential: +97

          avg. margin of victory: 15.63

 

Chiefs: Total points: 219

             Point differential: +58

             Avg. margin of victory: 6.44

 

But all stats go out the window when it's head to head because the NFL is a week-to-week league. All you can do is play and beat whoever is on your schedule.

 

 

And I think we all know what the OP meant with this thread, whether he used the word "rebuild" or "retool." He's pointing out that we are a much better team than a number of posters, fans, and media thought we would be, so he's giving props to the coaches and team.

 

There were definitely people in the off-season calling it a rebuild. There were a lot of people (not just nationally, but on this board) that thought this would be a big step back year for the Bills---possibly missing the playoffs. Why can't people just say, yeah, I'm happy that we are better than I thought we were going to be, let's hope it continues. Rather than, yeah, well let's see what they do in the playoffs first, or our record is easy, or qualify it in some other way. However you add it up, 8-2 is a very good season thus far and I do not see a team the Bills can't beat (there is no juggernaut team this season). So, why shouldn't our aspirations be a Super Bowl? And why shouldn't we give props to Sean and Brandon for keeping us a top-end team through a transition period? It may not be a rebuild, but it was a significant transition. Of the 62 players that played in a game for the Bills in 2023, 25 of them are gone. That's 40.32% of the roster turned over. That's pretty big. To keep the team winning through that is worthy of props, imo.

 

Sometimes I forget that more than half the league won't make the playoffs, and every year some of the teams thast make the playoffs, suck.

 

Great post 

[Dr.Sack]

5 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Agree except the Bills replaced custom designed drapes and carpet that broke with new ones bought at Walmart, but the new ones are just meant for short term use until they really find what they are looking for in longer term replacements!    So yes just replacement, but not close to the same quality level.  For that reason as the OP stated, the team and coaching and management do deserve more credit than you're giving them.

 

For those same reason I wasn't in favor of spending much money on spending much money on short term replacements at the trade deadline.

When you buy cheap you buy twice. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

2 hours ago, DrBob806 said:

The 49ers might be ok now with CMC back, if he remains healthy. Very mediocre before yesterday, and barely beat TBay.

 

 

SF is as close to missing the playoffs as they are to being the great team everyone expects 🤣. The discourse around them has been interesting.  Arizona might block them out of the playoffs altogether 

 

The NFC north/east just have too many good teams for a wildcard to likely come out of the west 

Edited Monday at 10:36 PM by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Mark Vader]

11 hours ago, Gman10 said:

KC, 9ers and Rams are all going to be super tough. The Texans was a winnable game. Ravens on the other hand....yikes.
 

Cardinals are no.1 in the NFC west and we beat them

We also have to play the Lions.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

3 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

When you buy cheap you buy twice. 

 

True, but if you don't have the money, you don't have much of a choice.  The NFL doesn't have salary cap loans.

[ghostwriter]

Any time Josh Allen is your QB, you are not in a rebuild year.

[NewEra]

49 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

True, but if you don't have the money, you don't have much of a choice.  The NFL doesn't have salary cap loans.

They do though -  that’s why “going all in” is a term used.  Teams can mortgage future salary cap and draft picks (which also has a huge effect on a teams cap situation).  

[BADOLBILZ]

12 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

We are sill less talented than last year. Rapp for Poyer is a wash. Morse for McGovern is a wash. Davis for Coleman is probably a short term downgrade but long term upgrade. Hyde to Hamlin is a downgrade. McGovern to Edwards is a downgrade. And obviously Diggs to Samuel is a massive downgrade. 

The oline is not as good as last year but I think that is more due to Dawkins and Torrence playing poorly at times. 

RB group has been improved. 

 

Add it all up and Allen is the primary reason they are 8-2. Everyone said his turnovers were overblown but that was total nonsense. It was a massive problem and he had been much much better. That said he was awful in Houston and was the primary reason they lost that game.

 

I would add one other thing. Coaching is better. Second half adjustments are much better this year. Don't forget the retooling also included a new DC and an OC that had a full offseason to work on the offense. 

 

 

I don't agree with your talent assessments.  

 

They got younger where they needed to and got more experienced at positions where they were too inexperienced last year.

 

If Cooper comes back and gets up to speed and Coleman comes back and continues his trajectory then the offense will be way ahead of where they were last year heading into the playoffs.    DE and CB units are notably better.   ST's are better.  The only two units that are lesser talented are DT and S.   And they could yet get back to the same levels at those spots by playoff time........because neither unit were strengths last year.

[GASabresIUFan]

I don't remember anyone saying this was a retool or rebuild.  I remember Beane saying that he needed to get the Bills in a better cap situation.

 

Lets remember the key players who were let go or left on their own accord.

1) White - since traded by new team

2) Dodson - since released by new team

3) G Davis - a career 50% pass catcher who isn't doing anything for his new team

4) Hyde - Still a UFA

5) Poyer - Has been terrible for the Fish

6) Morse - Solid for his new team, but McGovern has stepped in an for the most part the Bills haven't missed a beat

7) Diggs - Out for the year, but was good for Houston before his injury.

 

Outside of Diggs (on the field) who have the Bills missed?  White has already been replaced by Douglas.  Dodson wasn't need as Milano was set to return.  Hyde and Poyer were shadows of their former pro-bowl selves and Rapp had ably manned one of the two safety spots.  McGovern and Edwards have performed as well as McGovern and Morse.  You can argue that Hamlin isn't as good as Hyde, but his play has drastically improved in recent weeks.

 

All in all, Beane simply cleared out expensive dead wood and replaced them with younger, cheaper and in some cases better players.  

 

The new balanced offense has 30 points or more in 7 games this season including 4 in a row.  

 

Under Brady, the Bills offense has scored 30 or more 11 times in 19 weeks (including last season).  The Bills record in those games is 10-1, with the 1 a loss on OT to Philly. Dorsey's Bills had 30 plus in only 3 of 10 games last season.  

[Punch]

The only people calling it a rebuild were in the media. 

[Saxum]

42 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said:

I don't remember anyone saying this was a retool or rebuild.  I remember Beane saying that he needed to get the Bills in a better cap situation.

 

Lets remember the key players who were let go or left on their own accord.

1) White - since traded by new team

2) Dodson - since released by new team

3) G Davis - a career 50% pass catcher who isn't doing anything for his new team

4) Hyde - Still a UFA

5) Poyer - Has been terrible for the Fish

6) Morse - Solid for his new team, but McGovern has stepped in an for the most part the Bills haven't missed a beat

7) Diggs - Out for the year, but was good for Houston before his injury.

 

Outside of Diggs (on the field) who have the Bills missed?  White has already been replaced by Douglas.  Dodson wasn't need as Milano was set to return.  Hyde and Poyer were shadows of their former pro-bowl selves and Rapp had ably manned one of the two safety spots.  McGovern and Edwards have performed as well as McGovern and Morse.  You can argue that Hamlin isn't as good as Hyde, but his play has drastically improved in recent weeks.

 

All in all, Beane simply cleared out expensive dead wood and replaced them with younger, cheaper and in some cases better players.  

 

The new balanced offense has 30 points or more in 7 games this season including 4 in a row.  

 

Under Brady, the Bills offense has scored 30 or more 11 times in 19 weeks (including last season).  The Bills record in those games is 10-1, with the 1 a loss on OT to Philly. Dorsey's Bills had 30 plus in only 3 of 10 games last season.  

 

I mostly agree but what about DT Leonard Floyd? There were other players Bills lost you are not including because they do not support your point.

 

Gabriel Davis has not been effective in Jacksonville as Buffalo but not expected with their QB who has been nose diving this year.

His role has been taken over by Mack Hollins who has been blocking almost as well.

 

[Sierra Foothills]

15 hours ago, boyst said:

Retool isn't rebuilding

 

Retool, rebuild, reload... it's all semantics anyways.

 

We're talking about varying degrees. When is something more of a retool than a rebuild? Rhetorical question... it's splitting hairs.

 

Anyways the Bills are never gonna say it's a rebuilding year and it's not. As long as you have Josh Allen you have to do enough to at least have a shot at the big prize if luck happens to swing your way a bit. You might not go all-in every year but there's a certain level you have to try to attain each year because when you have someone like Josh, you have a chance every year.

 

14 hours ago, BillsVet said:

Buffalo's strength of schedule is currently 3rd easiest in the NFL and 2nd easiest in the AFC.  It's a first place schedule with 6 games against the moribund NYJ, MIA, and NE.  And who are those first place teams they'll play?  BAL, HOU, KC, and DET, whom they're 0-2 against and have yet to play the latter 2 teams.

 

You know, before the season began the Bills had the 6th most difficult schedule in the league:

 

https://www.giants.com/news/2024-nfl-strength-of-schedule-for-all-32-teams-steelers-packers-cowboys-49ers

 

Part of the reason for the poor record of the teams the Bills have beaten is because the Bills are 8-0 against them. Also teams with fragile psyches like Jacksonville and the Jets let the losses to the Bills compound and affect the course of their seasons. Every year lots of teams underperform. The Bills are not one of those teams.

 

13 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

We are sill less talented than last year. Rapp for Poyer is a wash. Morse for McGovern is a wash. Davis for Coleman is probably a short term downgrade but long term upgrade. Hyde to Hamlin is a downgrade. McGovern to Edwards is a downgrade. And obviously Diggs to Samuel is a massive downgrade. 

The oline is not as good as last year but I think that is more due to Dawkins and Torrence playing poorly at times. 

RB group has been improved.

 

Amari Cooper? Ray Davis? DeWayne Carter? Mack Hollins? Smoot and Toohill are better than the reserve DEs from last year. Dorian Williams has made a big jump in development.

 

Your assessment of the before/after has some notable ommissions.

 

10 hours ago, ToGoGo said:

If we’re in the running for the #1 seed then we don’t rest. 

 

On the other hand if the team prioritizes player health above standings/playoff seeding then maybe we do rest some players.

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 04:17 AM by Sierra Foothills

[BuffaloBillsGospel2014]

I have to give credit where credit is due, I might not always think this coaching staff is on par with the top teams but just saying it's all Josh Allen and nothing else I think is flawed since it truly is the ultimate team sport. McDermott/Beane has done a great job this year especially after losing so many leaders and dealing with injuries yet again now lets go get that SB ring... GO BILLS!

[GASabresIUFan]

3 hours ago, Saxum said:

 

I mostly agree but what about DT Leonard Floyd? There were other players Bills lost you are not including because they do not support your point.

 

Gabriel Davis has not been effective in Jacksonville as Buffalo but not expected with their QB who has been nose diving this year.

His role has been taken over by Mack Hollins who has been blocking almost as well.

 

Besides Floyd, who I forgot, but who only had 1 sack in the second half of last season and his presence forced Groot out of position, which important player did I miss?  Neal? Settle? Bates?  Who? Austin Johnson has been better than a Settle.  Bates never played and SVPG has been fine when called upon.  Do you miss AJ Klein, Ford, Sherfield or Harty? No one else does either!

[ganesh]

10 hours ago, appoo said:

 

Sometimes I forget that more than half the league won't make the playoffs, and every year some of the teams thast make the playoffs, suck.

 

Great post 

Heck...17 teams in the league today have a Losing record  with 4 wins or less.    That is more than 50% of the teams.