The Colts Game reminded me why we don't need/want a Diggs/#1 Receiver on our team

[JoshAllin]

Kincaid had a TD this game with how open he was getting. The pick to Shakir looked like another one where he easily makes grabs if not for Allen slightly getting bumped in the line. He can't have those bumps vs Chris Jones vs kc those are killer

Edited November 11 by JoshAllin

[Boatdrinks]

1 hour ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

What it tells me is that we’ve got to get younger, faster and deeper at WR so we don’t have to be in this position every year, halfway through the season depending on old fee agent signings and slot WRs. 

 

I do not want the Bills to pay Cooper.

 

I think the WR talent on this team is bottom half of the league even with Cooper and Coleman. 

 

100% agree.

 

Called into WGR that day and said that and got told that KJ Hamler and MVS were the same player.

 

Also, doesn’t look good for the Bills

coaching staff that MVS is with the Saints for two weeks and somehow he learns the playbook and goes over 100. 
 

The Bills added a poo-poo platter of WRs after FA/Draft with Cephus, Claypool, MVS and none of them apparently were good enough to be the 6th WR. 
 

But now Jalen Virgil is? The logic of the Bills coaching staff and FO on this. 

MVS had his chances here. Sometimes it’s not a fit. Maybe he got a wake up call for the 5th time lol. Who knows, but I don’t necessarily think it reflects poorly on the Bills. 

[US Egg]

Highly doubt anyone one in the Bills braintrust is thinking “yeah, forget that #1 WR need, we’re good”.

[Homey D. Clown]

I think the team does need a #1 receiving threat, just not Diggs.  I'd rather watch a good high character player than a pompous, D-bag great one.  here's the thing though... diggs never showed up in the biggest games.  Go ahead and look back at all of them.  also, I firmly believe he was declining fast which became a liability. but to your point, you simply can't stretch the field without a legitimate threat, and we just don't have that right now, not even with Cooper. 

[CaseyatBat]

They played against Joe Flacco

 

things might be a little different against good teams. Lets hold off on declarations about not needing anything, as clearly a top WR would be nice

[bigK14094]

13 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

It was crystal clear early in today's game that Josh was purposely trying to force feed Samuel. It worked on a couple catches but blew up on several others. I want Curtis's role to be expanded without all the silly behind the LOS stuff.  But stop forcing the issue.  Samuel is still getting marginal separation. 

Samuel failed to meet the ball on Josh second int. If he had just attempted to go get it, the int was less likely.  Samuel just waited for the ball to arrive, which it didn't due to the  db undercut.  so the int was at least partically on  Samuel.

[Dillenger4]

I want to see what we look like with a healthy Amari Cooper on the field along with Coleman, shakir and Kincaid.

[DCofNC]

16 hours ago, DCofNC said:

Kincaid is a major disappointment this year, don’t know what the deal is, but he’s a non-factor.

Seriously? People are hating on that statement?  He’s not on pace to match his rookie numbers with what should be more opportunities.  He’s averaging 3 touches a game and people don’t find that disappointing?  I give up.

[Virgil]

2 hours ago, Dillenger4 said:

I want to see what we look like with a healthy Amari Cooper on the field along with Coleman, shakir and Kincaid.

I really think that’s all we need.  And when Cooper moves on, replace him with a burner.  
 

I also do believe Hollins is integral to our system for what he does 

[DCofNC]

6 minutes ago, Virgil said:

I really think that’s all we need.  And when Cooper moves on, replace him with a burner.  
 

I also do believe Hollins is integral to our system for what he does 

Hollins = Gabe Davis, but he’s actually better than Davis.

[DCofNC]

15 hours ago, Shortchaz said:

If by “not that much different” you mean 60% more, then I guess it’s the same 🤷‍♂️.

 

We couldn’t afford diggs beyond this year but somehow we can take on Jefferson’s contract? 
 

look, he’s a great, GREAT, player. We would be a worse team if we had him. Half a billion on a quarterback and one wr isn’t a recipe for team building. 

Actually, Jefferson’s Cap hit this year is 8.5M this year and 15.3 next year and we are eating Diggs at 31M soooo… you’re clueless.  Not only that, when he DOES move up in value it’s 39M and 42M, not that you ever let it get to that, bc you resign him, but worst case scenario, you have the best WR in football for what you are paying Diggs and any competent version of his replacement.  So how ya feel about your statement now?

[Sweats]

Here's the way i see it.......yes, it would be nice to have a true legit #1 WR, however, i think the team is fine as long as Brady can properly scheme for the guys and talent that he does have on the team presently.

 

I'm not going to say we have mediocre talent on our roster, as i think we have the talent to compete with any team in the league, but to fully utilize what we do have on the team, it has to be done through schemes and play calling.......hopefully Brady realizes the importance of the gauntlet we'll be facing over the next month and scheme accordingly to put the players in the best position to succeed.

[T.E.]

16 hours ago, DCofNC said:

Kincaid is a major disappointment this year, don’t know what the deal is, but he’s a non-factor.

They have no idea how to use him. Absolutely insane that they can't figure out how to get the ball to either him or Knox. It's not like there aren't enough balls to go around.

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

This is why we got Cooper.

 

Once Cooper was on the field it opened things up for Keon, Shakir and others.  WRs were getting open.

 

Without Cooper, our WR core was very average and not getting open.

 

Perhaps Josh was forcing the ball yesterday because no one was really open

[Shortchaz]

25 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

Actually, Jefferson’s Cap hit this year is 8.5M this year and 15.3 next year and we are eating Diggs at 31M soooo… you’re clueless.  Not only that, when he DOES move up in value it’s 39M and 42M, not that you ever let it get to that, bc you resign him, but worst case scenario, you have the best WR in football for what you are paying Diggs and any competent version of his replacement.  So how ya feel about your statement now?

I’m sure that Justin Jefferson’s 4 year 140 million dollar contract, with 110 guaranteed is more than you’re trying to make it seem. I think he was paid 38 million this year, before the “value goes up”. 
 

Paying digs 31 million while he’s on another team is a good argument for not giving another wr a large contract. 
 

We’re getting into the weeds here. My argument is that signing a wr to a huge contract might make business sense but it’s low value from a purely wins/loss, team building, football sense. 

[starrymessenger]

3 hours ago, Dillenger4 said:

I want to see what we look like with a healthy Amari Cooper on the field along with Coleman, shakir and Kincaid.

We better start to see some of Amari Cooper soon. Otherwise we have wasted a 3rd. That's a big price to pay for nothing. 

[mjt328]

18 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Well not sure how you come to that conclusion since the first INT was going to Shakir. 

 

I was at the game, and I have no idea who the first INT was being thrown to.

There wasn't a receiver within 10 years of EJ Speed.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

9 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

 

I was at the game, and I have no idea who the first INT was being thrown to.

There wasn't a receiver within 10 years of EJ Speed.

It was to Shakir. He was breaking open. Josh threw it short possibly because he was hit at the time. 

[mjt328]

19 hours ago, Virgil said:

In watching the Colts game where we really only had Samuel and Shakir as solid WR options (no shade thrown at Hollins, but he is more of a blocker and situational catcher for us), Josh looked more like early 2023 Josh in this game.  You could see that they were trying to get Samuel involved early and it looked like he was trying to force some throws.  Both of his interceptions, first real ones all season, came when Josh seemed to be pressing a bit.  Granted, one was an under-thrown ball and the other Josh didn't seem to even see the defender.  Regardless, Josh seemed like he wasn't able to read the entire field and was limited in who he was willing to throw to.  The result, in my humble opinion, was a less free throwing Josh who could get through a variety of reads.

 

There's been a lot of talk that part of Josh's interception struggles last year was due to trying to keep Diggs, and sometimes Davis, involved in the gameplan.  This season, Josh hasn't really needed to care about any of that and has been much better protecting the ball and "everyone eats."  To me, this game was similar to that, but more-so for lack of options.

 

With all that being said, I think this shows that maybe we shouldn't be the team who pays a #1, but has 3-4 guys out there that Josh can trust to get open and make catches.  Cooper, if he is ever healthy again, is that deep threat who teams at least have to respect, but I would argue we don't need a 20 mil per year receiver for that.  In fact, I would argue that if we can draft a burner next season, have him opposite of Coleman, with Shakir in the slot, this offense will be great and cheap.  Yes, this still assumes the compliment of the running game alongside Kincaid. 

 

Just thoughts...

 

Yes and no. 

I agree that Josh Allen has benefitted from not having the pressure caused by someone like Stefon Diggs demanding the ball.  And the Bills definitely have plenty of overall TALENT within their receiving group to replace his production, especially if you count the Tight End room.  

 

But I believe the main reason they have struggled offensively at times... is that ALL our best options are all short-area/middle of the field guys.  Khalil Shakir in the slot.  Dalton Kincaid and Dawson Knox over the middle.  Running backs in the flats.  Even Curtis Samuel is more of a YAC guy.  Nobody on the roster is a threat down the field.  And outside of 2-3 games, we've really had nothing on the outside at all.

 

After the first two weeks, defenses quickly realized we weren't able to consistently attack deep or outside.  Our opponents adjusted, clogging the short/intermediate routes and daring our outside guys (Mack Hollins and inexperienced rookie Keon Coleman) to win.  We struggled badly Weeks 3-4 with the Ravens and Texans, until getting Amari Cooper in a trade.  Things immediately started picking up again.  Then Cooper got injured.  Then Coleman too.  Yesterday was pretty ugly overall, and it shouldn't be surprising that our best success came when Hollins was actually making plays on the outside.

 

I agree that it's not about having a #1 elite WR on the team.  But we do need some variety to our passing attack, or it gets WAY too easy and predictable to defend.  Hollins had a good game against the Colts awful corners, but I'm not sure we can count on him on a weekly basis.  We desperately need Cooper back, because the upcoming matchup is Trent McDuffie.

 

Edited November 11 by mjt328

[Virgil]

41 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

 

Yes and no. 

I agree that Josh Allen has benefitted from not having the pressure caused by someone like Stefon Diggs demanding the ball.  And the Bills definitely have plenty of overall TALENT within their receiving group to replace his production, especially if you count the Tight End room.  

 

But I believe the main reason they have struggled offensively at times... is that ALL our best options are all short-area/middle of the field guys.  Khalil Shakir in the slot.  Dalton Kincaid and Dawson Knox over the middle.  Running backs in the flats.  Even Curtis Samuel is more of a YAC guy.  Nobody on the roster is a threat down the field.  And outside of 2-3 games, we've really had nothing on the outside at all.

 

After the first two weeks, defenses quickly realized we weren't able to consistently attack deep or outside.  Our opponents adjusted, clogging the short/intermediate routes and daring our outside guys (Mack Hollins and inexperienced rookie Keon Coleman) to win.  We struggled badly Weeks 3-4 with the Ravens and Texans, until getting Amari Cooper in a trade.  Things immediately started picking up again.  Then Cooper got injured.  Then Coleman too.  Yesterday was pretty ugly overall, and it shouldn't be surprising that our best success came when Hollins was actually making plays on the outside.

 

I agree that it's not about having a #1 elite WR on the team.  But we do need some variety to our passing attack, or it gets WAY too easy and predictable to defend.  Hollins had a good game against the Colts awful corners, but I'm not sure we can count on him on a weekly basis.  We desperately need Cooper back, because the upcoming matchup is Trent McDuffie.

 

 

I think we are on the same page, but I may not be wording my thoughts correctly.  In the games you mentioned, we did not have that burner to keep two safeties against us and make the opposing team respect longer passes.  With Cooper, who I agree is a number one, we saw the benefit of that respect immediately. 

 

I think we need a health Coleman (outside for contested catches), Shakir in the slot, and a respectable burner on the outside.  Yes, that's Cooper right now, but I don't think his replacement needs to be as good as Cooper, just someone who you can't let run free down the sidelines. 

 

If we have that, then I think this offense is in great shape and Josh plays a better brand of ball