The Colts Game reminded me why we don't need/want a Diggs/#1 Receiver on our team

[Shortchaz]

Just now, nucci said:

Justin Jefferson would make this team better

Not with his salary. 

[Saxum]

31 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

I trust PFF to judge if a pass should have resulted in an INT or not. It's not as complicated as an interpretation as say how an offensive guard run blocks. They measure turnover worthy plays which historically have resulted in INT's 60% of the time. 

 

Allen has 12 turnover worthy plays this year on 262 attempts for 4.58%. Last year he had 23 turnover worthy plays on 648 attempts for 3.54%.  His average air yards a completion this year is 5.0 vs 6.1 last year and 7.5 the year prior. This is the anti Dorsey offense. It's designed to move the chains. Which I'm perfectly fine with. It has been an all or nothing three point shooting team for too long. I think this style of offense actually helps Josh stay in the scheme better and ultimately produces more consistent outcomes. As far as thinking a WR or even Josh has made things dramatically different than years past on INT's I just don't buy it. Data really doesn't support this narrative. 

Bradley plays a ton of cover 3. It forces you to be patient and has been a little more difficult on Allen than other schemes. 

 

The term "turnover worthy" is a made up one by statisticians like how Josh Allen was underrated by them. .

[BADOLBILZ]

 

They barely escaped a home defeat to Miami last week where they were outproduced offensively 6.2-5.5 yards per play.

 

This week.......against a punchless Indy team QB'd by a washed up 40 year old QB they ended up with the same 5.9 ypp as the Colts.

 

What we have been watching during this 4 game stretch against teams who have a combined .343 win % isn't the formula for beating good teams.

 

 

[WotAGuy]

3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

What we have been watching during this 4 game stretch against teams who have a combined .343 win % isn't the formula for beating good teams.

 

As you’ve just proven, they haven’t been playing good teams, so the script will be flipped when they play a good Chiefs team. WR injuries are killing the offense right now. 

[BillsFanForever19]

1 hour ago, Virgil said:

In watching the Colts game where we really only had Samuel and Shakir as solid WR options (no shade thrown at Hollins, but he is more of a blocker and situational catcher for us), Josh looked more like early 2023 Josh in this game.  You could see that they were trying to get Samuel involved early and it looked like he was trying to force some throws.  Both of his interceptions, first real ones all season, came when Josh seemed to be pressing a bit.  Granted, one was an under-thrown ball and the other Josh didn't seem to even see the defender.  Regardless, Josh seemed like he wasn't able to read the entire field and was limited in who he was willing to throw to.  The result, in my humble opinion, was a less free throwing Josh who could get through a variety of reads.

 

There's been a lot of talk that part of Josh's interception struggles last year was due to trying to keep Diggs, and sometimes Davis, involved in the gameplan.  This season, Josh hasn't really needed to care about any of that and has been much better protecting the ball and "everyone eats."  To me, this game was similar to that, but more-so for lack of options.

 

With all that being said, I think this shows that maybe we shouldn't be the team who pays a #1, but has 3-4 guys out there that Josh can trust to get open and make catches.  Cooper, if he is ever healthy again, is that deep threat who teams at least have to respect, but I would argue we don't need a 20 mil per year receiver for that.  In fact, I would argue that if we can draft a burner next season, have him opposite of Coleman, with Shakir in the slot, this offense will be great and cheap.  Yes, this still assumes the compliment of the running game alongside Kincaid. 

 

Just thoughts...

 

You don't need a #1 who's going to demand the ball or be a headache like a Stefon Diggs or Davante Adams. But you need someone who is a #1 caliber WR who scares Defenses enough to focus on them.

 

When you don't have one of those, you're hard pressed to get players like Shakir and Kincaid open.

[JerseyBills]

1 hour ago, Virgil said:

In watching the Colts game where we really only had Samuel and Shakir as solid WR options (no shade thrown at Hollins, but he is more of a blocker and situational catcher for us), Josh looked more like early 2023 Josh in this game.  You could see that they were trying to get Samuel involved early and it looked like he was trying to force some throws.  Both of his interceptions, first real ones all season, came when Josh seemed to be pressing a bit.  Granted, one was an under-thrown ball and the other Josh didn't seem to even see the defender.  Regardless, Josh seemed like he wasn't able to read the entire field and was limited in who he was willing to throw to.  The result, in my humble opinion, was a less free throwing Josh who could get through a variety of reads.

 

There's been a lot of talk that part of Josh's interception struggles last year was due to trying to keep Diggs, and sometimes Davis, involved in the gameplan.  This season, Josh hasn't really needed to care about any of that and has been much better protecting the ball and "everyone eats."  To me, this game was similar to that, but more-so for lack of options.

 

With all that being said, I think this shows that maybe we shouldn't be the team who pays a #1, but has 3-4 guys out there that Josh can trust to get open and make catches.  Cooper, if he is ever healthy again, is that deep threat who teams at least have to respect, but I would argue we don't need a 20 mil per year receiver for that.  In fact, I would argue that if we can draft a burner next season, have him opposite of Coleman, with Shakir in the slot, this offense will be great and cheap.  Yes, this still assumes the compliment of the running game alongside Kincaid. 

 

Just thoughts...

The WR group quietly got better!

 

Even MVS had 2 TDs today

[Allen2Moulds]

45 minutes ago, nucci said:

maybe not a No.1 but we need a deep threat

MVS has 3 for 108 and 2 TDs today. Not saying he's the answer, but I didn't agree with the decision to part with him. He was the only legit deep threat we had. 

After seeing Jamar Chase go off on that same Baltimore defense that our WRs struggled against, it's hard for me to feel that way. Ideally you want a top 10 WR, like we had with Diggs, and really good #2. We have Allen, let's try and build the scary offense we can. He's seasoned enough now, that makes it hard for any WR coming in to challenge him, or create a problem.

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, Virgil said:

In watching the Colts game where we really only had Samuel and Shakir as solid WR options (no shade thrown at Hollins, but he is more of a blocker and situational catcher for us), Josh looked more like early 2023 Josh in this game.  You could see that they were trying to get Samuel involved early and it looked like he was trying to force some throws.  Both of his interceptions, first real ones all season, came when Josh seemed to be pressing a bit.  Granted, one was an under-thrown ball and the other Josh didn't seem to even see the defender.  Regardless, Josh seemed like he wasn't able to read the entire field and was limited in who he was willing to throw to.  The result, in my humble opinion, was a less free throwing Josh who could get through a variety of reads.

 

There's been a lot of talk that part of Josh's interception struggles last year was due to trying to keep Diggs, and sometimes Davis, involved in the gameplan.  This season, Josh hasn't really needed to care about any of that and has been much better protecting the ball and "everyone eats."  To me, this game was similar to that, but more-so for lack of options.

 

With all that being said, I think this shows that maybe we shouldn't be the team who pays a #1, but has 3-4 guys out there that Josh can trust to get open and make catches.  Cooper, if he is ever healthy again, is that deep threat who teams at least have to respect, but I would argue we don't need a 20 mil per year receiver for that.  In fact, I would argue that if we can draft a burner next season, have him opposite of Coleman, with Shakir in the slot, this offense will be great and cheap.  Yes, this still assumes the compliment of the running game alongside Kincaid. 

 

Just thoughts...

Again, without his top 2 WR’s Josh had one of his worst statistical games of the season.

 

this game proved how valuable Coleman and Cooper are

[BillsFanForever19]

5 minutes ago, Allen2Moulds said:

MVS has 3 for 108 and 2 TDs today. Not saying he's the answer, but I didn't agree with the decision to part with him. He was the only legit deep threat we had. 

After seeing Jamar Chase go off on that same Baltimore defense that our WRs struggled against, it's hard for me to feel that way. Ideally you want a top 10 WR, like we had with Diggs, and really good #2. We have Allen, let's try and build the scary offense we can. He's seasoned enough now, that makes it hard for any WR coming in to challenge him, or create a problem.

 

Agreed on MVS. He looked awful with us. But I didn't understand releasing him when we could have released our 5th Safety (which we ended up doing anyways), our 6th LB, or our 6th Defensive End.

 

Especially since we ended up promoting Jalen Virgil to be a 6th WR anyways in lieu of a number of injuries there.

[DCofNC]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Well not sure how you come to that conclusion since the first INT was going to Shakir. 

This team needs a true receiving threat. After they moved on from Diggs I thought that would be Kincaid. I thought they would take the approach KC has done with Kelce. 

But Kincaid has not been the superstar we

had hoped for so far. He's solid but not even close to an elite TE. 

Coleman looks like he may be as good or better than Davis was. But he is not a #1. 

If Kincaid doesn't get better and Cooper leaves in free agency they will need to find another true #1.

Kincaid is a major disappointment this year, don’t know what the deal is, but he’s a non-factor.

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, Virgil said:

 

Agreed.  This wasn't to me so much about the Colts as much as how Josh looked out there having to press the ball to certain receivers. 

It was crystal clear early in today's game that Josh was purposely trying to force feed Samuel. It worked on a couple catches but blew up on several others. I want Curtis's role to be expanded without all the silly behind the LOS stuff.  But stop forcing the issue.  Samuel is still getting marginal separation. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

No one should be throwing any kind of shade at Mack Hollins today, the dude balled the fudge out. 

Edited November 11 by TheyCallMeAndy

[DCofNC]

1 hour ago, Shortchaz said:

Not with his salary. 

It’s not that much different than what they are paying Diggs to not be here, so yeah, yeah he would.

6 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

No one should be throwing any kind of shade at Mack Hollins today, the dude balled the fudge out. 

Hi, I’m a Mack Hollins Truther, he did in fact play a heck of a game today.

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

This thread is almost as bad as the “our receivers are quietly better” thread … you do realize we played the Dolts, right?  They did everything they could to give that game away and the Bills seemed reluctant at times to take it. 

[Virgil]

To be clear and re-iterate, the point is to say that today’s performance was not great against a mediocre team.  
 

I think we need a healthy Shakir, Coleman, and a burner to keep the defense honesty. 

[Shortchaz]

7 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

It’s not that much different than what they are paying Diggs to not be here, so yeah, yeah he would.

If by “not that much different” you mean 60% more, then I guess it’s the same 🤷‍♂️.

 

We couldn’t afford diggs beyond this year but somehow we can take on Jefferson’s contract? 
 

look, he’s a great, GREAT, player. We would be a worse team if we had him. Half a billion on a quarterback and one wr isn’t a recipe for team building. 

[ngbills]

Add Chase, Jefferson, etc to this team and your nuts if you don’t think we are better. It may not be a must have when you have Allen but it would be very helpful if we did have. We are winning despite not having a 1 not because. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

What it tells me is that we’ve got to get younger, faster and deeper at WR so we don’t have to be in this position every year, halfway through the season depending on old fee agent signings and slot WRs. 

 

I do not want the Bills to pay Cooper.

 

I think the WR talent on this team is bottom half of the league even with Cooper and Coleman. 

 

1 hour ago, Allen2Moulds said:

MVS has 3 for 108 and 2 TDs today. Not saying he's the answer, but I didn't agree with the decision to part with him. He was the only legit deep threat we had. 

After seeing Jamar Chase go off on that same Baltimore defense that our WRs struggled against, it's hard for me to feel that way. Ideally you want a top 10 WR, like we had with Diggs, and really good #2. We have Allen, let's try and build the scary offense we can. He's seasoned enough now, that makes it hard for any WR coming in to challenge him, or create a problem.

100% agree.

 

Called into WGR that day and said that and got told that KJ Hamler and MVS were the same player.

 

Also, doesn’t look good for the Bills

coaching staff that MVS is with the Saints for two weeks and somehow he learns the playbook and goes over 100. 
 

The Bills added a poo-poo platter of WRs after FA/Draft with Cephus, Claypool, MVS and none of them apparently were good enough to be the 6th WR. 
 

But now Jalen Virgil is? The logic of the Bills coaching staff and FO on this. 

[Bermuda Triangle]

If anything, IMO, this game underscored the need to improve the WR corps. The pass offense looked very disjointed - there didn’t appear to be much available downfield for the WRs (broken plays aside), which compressed the field for the TEs and RBs.   We get little to no production from WR4/WR5 ….I wonder if any team has had less production from their WR4-WR6 so far this year 

[Dablitzkrieg]

The WR corp (that played today) will do nothing next week, against good teams, especially in the playoffs.  To think WR talent is overvalued or you do not need a #1 is ridiculous imo