Andre Reed Talks About Josh Allen

[PoundingDog]

Around 15 minute mark, they talk about Allen. He refused to compare Josh to Kelly. But Sal spoke for him eventually. And I think this is how league wide, players and analysts all feel about the same on Allen. You don't get to be compared to the greats until you bring the Bills to the Superbowl. I'm pretty sure Allen is aware of that as well, fair or not, that being more of a team thing than individual achievements. Many ranked Joe Burrow ahead of Allen largely because of his Superbowl appearance never mind he had all star WR corp and running backs then.

 

Andre also said this year Allen became a "complete Quarterback." People may think that unlike Jackson, Allen always have the ability to run and pass and do BOTH very well. Well, I think Andre is seeing what we are seeing this year; Allen's decision making is quite a step up from what he had done in first 6 years in NFL. Allen was very raw entering in NFL, top level arm, underrated running ability, and quick wit (Beane noticed that, which to me is very important for someone needing to make snap decision under pressure). He had to work thru his mechnics issue, learning how to read defenses (Allen admitted his first year he's pretty much lost). He's finally reaching the stage of refining his football decision making process. Prior to this year, some of Allen's poor decisions resulted INTs, but some of them also resulted in big plays, unbelievable plays due to his physical ability. This year I saw very few poor decisions from him, and we are seeing a much more steady flow of the offense over all.   

 

 

[SoonerBillsFan]

Thank you for posting that.  Josh is Josh and Jim is Jim, we need to just think of it that way.  Man Beane, Terry etal. Need to do whatever it takes to help Josh get us our 1st superbowl.

[stevestojan]

Cool and all but Josh is the best QB in bills history, all due respect to Jim. 

[Einstein]

I loved Jim. 

 

But this is not even comparable in my opinion.

Josh is a couple levels above.

[Coach Tuesday]

Just now, stevestojan said:

Cool and all but Josh is the best QB in bills history, all due respect to Jim. 

But it’s true - his legacy depends on at least getting to (and preferably winning, obviously) a Super Bowl.  

[appoo]

2 minutes ago, Einstein said:

I loved Jim. 

 

But this is not even comparable in my opinion.

Josh is a couple levels above.

Different era and that matters

[Ray Stonada]

Something to keep in mind: Jim turned 30 in February, 1990, the year we made our first Super Bowl.

 

So Josh is right on schedule. 

[ddaryl]

21 minutes ago, PoundingDog said:

Around 15 minute mark, they talk about Allen. He refused to compare Josh to Kelly. But Sal spoke for him eventually. And I think this is how league wide, players and analysts all feel about the same on Allen. You don't get to be compared to the greats until you bring the Bills to the Superbowl. I'm pretty sure Allen is aware of that as well, fair or not, that being more of a team thing than individual achievements. Many ranked Joe Burrow ahead of Allen largely because of his Superbowl appearance never mind he had all star WR corp and running backs then.

 

Andre also said this year Allen became a "complete Quarterback." People may think that unlike Jackson, Allen always have the ability to run and pass and do BOTH very well. Well, I think Andre is seeing what we are seeing this year; Allen's decision making is quite a step up from what he had done in first 6 years in NFL. Allen was very raw entering in NFL, top level arm, underrated running ability, and quick wit (Beane noticed that, which to me is very important for someone needing to make snap decision under pressure). He had to work thru his mechnics issue, learning how to read defenses (Allen admitted his first year he's pretty much lost). He's finally reaching the stage of refining his football decision making process. Prior to this year, some of Allen's poor decisions resulted INTs, but some of them also resulted in big plays, unbelievable plays due to his physical ability. This year I saw very few poor decisions from him, and we are seeing a much more steady flow of the offense over all.   

 

 

I said this in another thread, and I'll say it here.

I think we are seeing the best Allen so far. Not stat wise but more in his reading the D ability, and his willingnes to stay in the pocket. He has matured and it is noticeable this season.

[warrior9]

9 minutes ago, appoo said:

Different era and that matters

Josh is better in this era that Jim was in his. 

[Mikie2times]

6 minutes ago, appoo said:

Different era and that matters

Such a different era, clearly Josh has more talent, but the training, nutrition and everything else is so much better.  Just the fact that you had the ability to kill the QB and not having illegal contact. It totally changes the game. I don't know how much better Josh would do in that era. If he would even survive. I know that people who just assume that's an easy question to answer are not correct. 

Just now, warrior9 said:

Josh is better in this era that Jim was in his. 

I can get on board with that

[US Egg]

[sven233]

These discussions are so hard because of the eras and the differences in the game.  Kelly and his draft class really were among the first to make passing a bigger part of the sport, even though if you look at the run/pass breakdowns, it is a lot closer to 50-50 than you might think.  Also, defenses were pretty much allowed with murder on the field back then. Different game today.  Everyone is throwing the ball all over the place, as you should, because that's how the rules have gone.  Passing is encouraged and you can't touch the QBs and hardly even touch the WRs at this point.  Great throwers of the ball back then would probably still be great today because they can't be touched in today's league.  That said, you have to maybe be a little more athletic at the position with the way the game is trending now.  But, could the guys today hold up to the physical pounding they would have taken back in day?  Some of them could for sure, but not everyone.  It's just so hard to say and compare.

 

In terms of just comparing Kelly to Allen, though, it's real close.  I am as big a Kelly guy as there is, but Allen plays with the same heart and the same tenacity which is why we love him.  Is Allen there yet?  Maybe.  But Allen also, God willing, has several more years ahead of him to get there.  He will undoubtedly own every meaningful franchise record by the time he's done.

 

The fact of the matter is this.  The minute Allen hoists the Lombardi Trophy and brings this city it's first championship, he goes down as the greatest Buffalo Bill of all time.  He passes Thurman, Kelly, Bruce.....everyone.  The second he wins a title, he becomes the GOAT for this franchise, and, by the time's it's over, one of the best the league has ever seen.  

[Nephilim17]

Is Andre driving while taking part in a podcast?!

 

A great line from Andre:

"Everybody in the league knows who Bills Mafia is. Everybody in the United States knows who Bills Mafia is."

🍻

Edited November 9 by Nephilim17

[SoMAn]

39 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

But it’s true - his legacy depends on at least getting to (and preferably winning, obviously) a Super Bowl.  

It’s a bit arbitrary to rate Burrow ahead of Allen based on winning an AFC title. Should Allen be rated lower after defense blew it in 13-second game? What more could Josh have done?

[notpolian]

Allen is certainly a more dynamic player.  Kelly called his own plays. Kelly was more successful on far more talented teams. 

 

If the current Bills can get to the SB and win, the statue goes up.  First they got to get back to the AFCCG.  Much tougher path these days.

[Dan]

1 hour ago, warrior9 said:

Josh is better in this era that Jim was in his. 

I’m not sure you can say that.  
 

 

52 minutes ago, SoMAn said:

It’s a bit arbitrary to rate Burrow ahead of Allen based on winning an AFC title. Should Allen be rated lower after defense blew it in 13-second game? What more could Josh have done?

To be fair though… the 13 second game was the Divisional round.  Even had we won, there is no guarantee the Bills win the championship the following week.    We all assume, and fully saw that team as unstoppable… but that game was not for the championship which so many people seem to gloss over. 

[Sierra Foothills]

One big factor in the comparison that hasn't been mentioned is the caliber of players each QB was surrounded with.

 

Jimbo played with HOFers Hull, Thurman, Reed, Lofton, Bruce... and many All-Pro and Pro Bowl caliber players.

 

Josh on the other hand has not played with any HOF caliber players and many fewer All-Pro and Pro Bowl caliber players.

 

So as far as supporting cast it's not even close... Jimbo was surrounded with WAY more talent.

 

[julian]

3 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

Such a different era, clearly Josh has more talent, but the training, nutrition and everything else is so much better.  Just the fact that you had the ability to kill the QB and not having illegal contact. It totally changes the game. I don't know how much better Josh would do in that era. If he would even survive. I know that people who just assume that's an easy question to answer are not correct. 

I can get on board with that

If he would survive lol.. wtf 

[Don Otreply]

If you are who your record says you are…, then JK has to be ranked higher than JA, 

 

Four consecutive AFC division championships ,  and four consecutive superbowl appearances, 

 

Josh is notably more athletic than Jim, and frankly more talented as a QB than Jim, but…, regardless Jim enjoyed more success, 

 

I do think Allen has grown in his craft to the point he can win it all, something Jim didn’t do, (damn close though) we shall see, if we can effectively learn to counter opponents run games (which we can / “can’t” barely do now) we can win it all this season, so get this fixed Sean…, 

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

I haven’t watched yet, so I am basing this on OP’s summary.

 

but it’s somewhat laughable for any former Bill to call “reaching the Super Bowl” as some gold standard to be among the greats.
 

Maybe winning a SB. But reaching one is a a pretty phony standard that only the 90s Bills would argue for.