NFL officiating is broken. How do we fix it?

[finn]

Have Congress or the FBI launch an investigation of point shaving. My guess is that the officiating will improve, fast. 

[section122]

2 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Game is too fast for humans to officiate. They do a very good job most of the time on possession, ball placement, and line to gain decisions. Sometimes tehy just can't see the ball being dropped like the INT that was reversed last night.

They need multiple officials looking at replay on every play to fix what they miss. The NFL and officials union needs to be open to the fact that mistakes are made and need to be corrected.  They refused to reverse PI calls. They need to realize you can't take away TD runs like Josh had on phantom holding calls. You can't let the RT jump Offside so bad they entire nation sees it and not go back and call it, and you can't let the QB get drilled in the facemask on the most important play of the game. When even Al Michaels can't take it anymore you know it is hopelessly broken. 

 

The bolded is absolutely true.  I agree with the rest of your post but wanted to highlight the very first line.  People at home get multiple angles, slow motion, and the benefit of seeing a full view from the broadcast.  Each official is looking at a certain spot from a certain vantage point.  On field officials do not have a 360 degree view of the play.  I'm thinking of the Darnold play a couple of weeks ago at the end of the game and people were made the ref couldn't see it but you could see bodies between him and the play.  7 officials, 22 players, 100 yards.  It is an incredibly difficult if not impossible job.  The easy solution is to give refs assistance with the things mentioned above.  If we can all clearly see a penalty, why can't it be called retroactively.  I get that it is a slippery slope but who cares.  Call holding that happens on every play until it doesn't.  It seems silly that fans accept that to be true but get upset when other penalties aren't called.

 

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

I don't understand the logic that informs the opinion that "full time refs" would change an outcome.  How is that been working forever in MLB?  lol---not well.  And it makes no sense to say that the NFL system has suddenly "broke".  They haven't changed their hiring and training methods. 

 

"Bad calls" aren't made because the officials simply don't understand the rule book---it's because they didn't see what viewers feel they saw. So having them "study (or whatnot) on the season's off months would accomplish little. 

 

I think, with replay, officials "back in New York" should be able to simply say "that was a penalty" or "pick up the flag" on any significant play.  Also, simplify the rules.  Offensive holding should be radically simplified--it's a penalty if you take a guy to the ground---not for transiently grabbing his jersey sleeve for 2-3 seconds.    Also, a TD pass should be ruled as such immediately   when the ball in the receivers possession crosses the plane (same as a rushing TD)---the catch should not have to "survive the ground".  These are only 2 examples where, in seeking clarity, the rule have only introduced hopeless complexity, leading to all of these contorted referees interpretations.  Get rid of challenges.  Let the "eye in the sky" decide if they disagree with any call.

 

Logic would dictate that the solution isn't having "full time refs" sitting around  watching film for 7 moths out of the year.  It all gets fixed by a systematic review and simplification of the rules. 

 

Yes to all of this.  Full Time officials won't make a difference imo as the issue isn't that they know the rules (I believe they do), the issue is that is impossible to see all the penalties that occur.  As I mentioned above, there is no reason they can't get a little help especially in the extremely obvious cases.

 

However I don't know that this is an issue the NFL cares to fix.  People have been complaining about refs for as long as I can remember and I am sure before that even.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

the repaly rules and "eye in the sky" came about specifically because option 1 was a failure.

 

Also, why would refs, with no replay recourse, change the way they call penalties, big or small?  You would have them pick and choose which holding calls they would call (the rules obviously do not permit them to do that).  Now, individual refs may decide not to choose to throw a flag on the Giesicki hold (for example)--but then they would be ignoring the rules as written (great for one team's fans, not so great for the opponent's).   The rules do not allow for letting a player slide for a witnessed infraction.

 

Now, if the rules committee changed everything about how they do their business and allowed individual ref discretion as to whether to call holding, based on its impact on the outcome of a particular play (he could explain his no call to the head umpire for backup)----I would be all for that.   

I just feel like replay has become so overdone that I would rather live with the mistakes. I also think it would eliminate what I find to be the most annoying replays— the “did the ball move” catches? A “catch” is almost more discernible to see in real time than on slow mo replay.

[Mr. WEO]

42 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Paying refs as year round employees is a great idea but the NFL will never do it. The game is too fast for older refs to ever get it right. Smart coaches like Belichick know to tell their players to break the rules late in games because the NFL won't ever call these infractions at the risk of stopping the flow of the game. And yes a competent team of NFL replay people upstairs (at every game) could drastically reduce these egregious mistakes. But again the NFL will probably pass on this idea.

 

What is the evidence that older refs "can't ever get it right"?  Compared to who?  Younger NFL refs?  Older MLB/NBA refs?  Why do you say this?   The average age is 51.   MLB (full timers all) it's 46,  same as NBA.  Who is making the argument that MLB/NBA have solved bad call issues by hiring full time refs?  No one---because it's obviously not true.   And you would take the most experienced NFL refs and simply replace them with guys who have less experience, but are younger?  What problem does that solve?

 

 

8 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

It's not broken. It's exactly how they want it to be. If they felt like it were broken you'd see them try very hard to fix it to protect the product.

 

Remember, the NFL put themselves into the same category as the WWE. Sports entertainment. 

 

All major pro leagues are sports entertainment.  NFL is simply the most popular by far.  MLB and NHL can't get anyone to watch until the playoffs---and even then the numbers are abysmal.

[US Egg]

16 minutes ago, finn said:

Have Congress or the FBI launch an investigation of point shaving. My guess is that the officiating will improve, fast. 

Wanna bet?

[Mikie2times]

1. Full time refs

2. Reduction of total fouls (nobody cares if penalties aren't called both ways)

3. Super Challenge like the XFL has

 

If they did those three things it would make a huge improvement. But I'm not really sure they want a huge improvement. Bad calls lead to publicity and any publicity is generally good. I don't know of anybody who truly dropped the product over this topic. 

[mjt328]

Lots of good ideas already.  Here are my two big ones:

1. Utilize technology wherever possible to ensure accuracy.  There is no reason we shouldn't be using a sensor to determine where a ball is spotted already.  I'm sure there are ways we can use the same idea to determine if a player steps out of bounds, crosses the goal line, which side moves first on Offside/false starts, etc.
2. Keep a full team of officials in the booth, constantly reviewing calls and allowing them to quickly overturn ANY mistake made by the guys on the field.  If there is a question, huddle for 20 seconds and wait for word from upstairs.  

I also feel like there are WAY too many "vague" rules, which are not consistently interpreted from play to play.  Holding.  Pass Interference.  Illegal Contact.  Roughing the Passer.  Unsportsmanlike Conduct.  Not sure the specifics on fixing this, but something needs to be done to make sure these kinds of penalties are done consistently across the league every single game.

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

29 minutes ago, section122 said:

 

The bolded is absolutely true.  I agree with the rest of your post but wanted to highlight the very first line.  People at home get multiple angles, slow motion, and the benefit of seeing a full view from the broadcast.  Each official is looking at a certain spot from a certain vantage point.  On field officials do not have a 360 degree view of the play.  I'm thinking of the Darnold play a couple of weeks ago at the end of the game and people were made the ref couldn't see it but you could see bodies between him and the play.  7 officials, 22 players, 100 yards.  It is an incredibly difficult if not impossible job.  The easy solution is to give refs assistance with the things mentioned above.  If we can all clearly see a penalty, why can't it be called retroactively.  I get that it is a slippery slope but who cares.  Call holding that happens on every play until it doesn't.  It seems silly that fans accept that to be true but get upset when other penalties aren't called.

 

 

Yes to all of this.  Full Time officials won't make a difference imo as the issue isn't that they know the rules (I believe they do), the issue is that is impossible to see all the penalties that occur.  As I mentioned above, there is no reason they can't get a little help especially in the extremely obvious cases.

 

However I don't know that this is an issue the NFL cares to fix.  People have been complaining about refs for as long as I can remember and I am sure before that even.

 

The judge required to call that penalty on the hit to burrows head is behind him.  He doesn't see the front of burrows face.  The ball was out, and it didn't affect the throw.  Ref's don't want to call a penalty on one of the last plays of the game if it doesn't really affect the end result.  

 

The ref required to call the "hold" on gesicki (i put it in quotes because its making rounds on twitter), is called by a back judge in the end zone.  From what he saw (the back of ravens jersey), gesicki was pressed at the line and couldn't get through it.  His dramatic attempt after to try and get a call doesn't resonate with the ref, because A - I don't want to call a ticky tack foul on a 2 point conversion at the end of the game, and B - He never once turned and even looked for the ball.  

[LABILLBACKER]

54 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

What is the evidence that older refs "can't ever get it right"?  Compared to who?  Younger NFL refs?  Older MLB/NBA refs?  Why do you say this?   The average age is 51.   MLB (full timers all) it's 46,  same as NBA.  Who is making the argument that MLB/NBA have solved bad call issues by hiring full time refs?  No one---because it's obviously not true.   And you would take the most experienced NFL refs and simply replace them with guys who have less experience, but are younger?  What problem does that solve?

 

 

 

All major pro leagues are sports entertainment.  NFL is simply the most popular by far.  MLB and NHL can't get anyone to watch until the playoffs---and even then the numbers are abysmal.

Oh I don't know? Maybe because older refs are slower and more clumsy to keep up with the speed of the NFL right now. Their visual acuity weakens after 50 years old. They have to navigate a 100 yard football field. They're not sitting behind home plate. And the evidence is part of this discussion. We're witnessing more and more blown calls every year. They only way to help these guys on the field is expanding booth review teams upstairs. 

 

You are probably right in one argument that full time refs will not solve the problem. Additional training will not reduce the errors. This game is too damn fast and they need help upstairs.  Hiring younger refs would help these guys physically keep up with these 20+ year old world class athletes. 

 

One final problem to getting younger refs in the NFL is the league won't even consider you unless you officiated 10-15+ years at the high school and college level. By the time you get that NFL promotion you're approaching 50.

Edited November 8 by LABILLBACKER

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I hate trying to perfect officiating because penalties literally happen almost every play.

The automatic 1st down for defensive penalties has a major impact on games. Maybe only have automatic 1st down if a defensive penalty occurs in the end zone.

 

I would like to see the sky judge involved more, but within the flow of the game. Maybe 10 second limit after a call to reverse it.

 

 

[ticketssince61]

I am not sure that "full time officials" will make a difference - what will they do with the extra time to get better at making split second decisions in a live action games at a packed stadium?

 

I think some sort of replay / review / challenge system would fix a lot of the egregious mistakes - e.g, the two non face mask charges last night against Burrow

[Matt_In_NH]

I am a referee defender because I think the job is so much harder and in some respects impossible.  Not saying there cannot be improvements but I think it is way harder of a job and they actually are much better than people realize.  

• There are 22 players on the field and 7 officials.  They simply cannot see everything in real time that you see on the various camera angles that you can slow down after the fact.  It just makes sense that they "miss" things because their eyes can only be focused on one thing, sure you have peripheral vision but that is not able to see details.
  • The harder ones to forgive are when there is a flag that should not have been.  This happens with holding and PI, things happen fast and I believe they do about as good as a human can do.
• The NFL makes more rules and adds details to rules all the time, there is more for guys to monitor for.
• NFL officiating in general is light years better than 30 years ago before there was replay
  • They greatly improved the catch rule a few years ago
  • They added quick reviews for obvious misses of spots or did the guy get in or was it a first down, no challenges needed, they fix it after and dont really slow the game down.
  • They get spots right more than they used to.
  • They get catches right more often then they used to

Full time officials is a dumb idea, it changes nothing about a humans ability to see/process a 1000 details per second in real time.

 

What has changed is attention to the officials, memes, gifs, social media where a 2 second loop can be slowed down and shared incessantly.  

[US Egg]

The NFL has not turned a blind eye and does try to address the issue. More so than they get credit for.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

4 hours ago, Logic said:

In my estimation, the biggest problem is that the NFL absolutely refuses to have full time officials. For a sport this big, which makes this much money, and which sees so much money wagered on it by the betting public, to NOT have full time officials, seems inexcusable to me. 
 

 

Disagree on the "full time" official thing. What does that even mean? Are they going to do NFL scrimmage games in spring and summer? They are highly compensated already. And believe me, as a High School football official these guys put in the work year round in terms of study both in the book and film. I see it at the high school level. The study is even greater at the NFL level I am sure too.

 

One and one thing only will fix officiating. Letting coaches challenge bad calls. The thing is, fans have to accept that it will only be the egregiously bad calls that will be overturned. On some flags, multiple refs can have their eyes on the same play and have three different opinions on it. Those are not the kind of flags that will be overturned or thrown.

 

Coaches won't be able to throw flags challenging a ticky tack non call on a PI and expect it to be overturned. The NFL experimented with this a while back too. Was it like 8 - 10 years ago?

[Fleezoid]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I hate trying to perfect officiating because penalties literally happen almost every play.

The automatic 1st down for defensive penalties has a major impact on games. Maybe only have automatic 1st down if a defensive penalty occurs in the end zone.

 

I would like to see the sky judge involved more, but within the flow of the game. Maybe 10 second limit after a call to reverse it.

 

 

 

I hate the automatic 1st downs on defensive holding. 3rd and 18, guy holds 3 yards down field. First down! wtf. 

 

And illegal contact penalties the absolute worst. Happens every play, yet dished out so arbitrarily. 

[Warcodered]

4 hours ago, Nephilim17 said:

Open up the coaches' challenges to PI and holding calls. That will limit the amount of times call get looked, so not every play is being reviewed, at but it will make impactful calls open to review and reversal.

I remember when they let PI be challenged or reviewed, and the guy they had review it just always sided with the on the field refs, just made the entire thing pointless.

[0017]

Why is the nfl so obsessed with having penalties called in real time, we have technology now, we can add penalties after a review. 
 

But I guess bad calls and games ending horribly does keep the NFL in the news and relevant every week. Any publicity is good publicity! 
 

*edit* Also there is the Chiefs!! 🤬

Edited November 8 by 0017

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Oh I don't know? Maybe because older refs are slower and more clumsy to keep up with the speed of the NFL right now. Their visual acuity weakens after 50 years old. They have to navigate a 100 yard football field. They're not sitting behind home plate. And the evidence is part of this discussion. We're witnessing more and more blown calls every year. They only way to help these guys on the field is expanding booth review teams upstairs. 

 

You are probably right in one argument that full time refs will not solve the problem. Additional training will not reduce the errors. This game is too damn fast and they need help upstairs.  Hiring younger refs would help these guys physically keep up with these 20+ year old world class athletes. 

 

One final problem to getting younger refs in the NFL is the league won't even consider you unless you officiated 10-15+ years at the high school and college level. By the time you get that NFL promotion you're approaching 50.

I really don’t see the huffing and puffing up and down the field as a problem.  Most of the time they are standing still watching the backfield or the sideline or the end zone as plays begin or conclude.  They aren’t running the fly route with Justin Jefferson to see if he caught the pass.  As for visual acuity after 50…there are far more significant jobs being performed by guys over 50 where the outcome is far more consequential than a blown call (that gets overturned  on review anyway)—-I don’t see anyone calling for 50+ pilots or surgeons etc to retire.  And of course much younger refs  with inadequate experience at a high level certainly won’t solve this problem. 

Edited November 8 by Mr. WEO

[SinceThe70s]

3 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I just feel like replay has become so overdone that I would rather live with the mistakes. I also think it would eliminate what I find to be the most annoying replays— the “did the ball move” catches? A “catch” is almost more discernible to see in real time than on slow mo replay.

 

I think replay is a necessary evil. The best fix to replay I've heard came from a poster who hasn't been around here for a few years. All replay reviews should be done at game speed, no slo-mo replays. The blatantly bad calls will get overturned and folks would have to learn to live with the marginal ones. As it stands now there are tons of Zapruder-ish reviews where nobody agrees with the final call anyway. BTW, I don't expect this idea would ever get any traction.

[Livinginthepast]

The missed call on Burrow on the literally the most important Play of the game last night was absolutely inexcusable. Any other player on the field it might be understandable but the guy with the ball and you miss that?  That's about the 4th or 5th horribly missed call this year. The league needs to get their heads out their a** and really do something.