Anyone have any experience moving abroad?

[Logic]

*Disclaimer: No political crap in this thread, please. If you wanna talk about that stuff, take it to the PPP*

My wife and I have been considering moving abroad for years now. We previously lived in the U.S. Virgin Islands for a couple years, but that's a U.S. territory, so it was pretty easy and didn't involve anything special. As for this potential move, we've talked about various options including Italy, Sweden, Costa Rica, and Montreal.

I recognize that different countries have different immigration requirements, some more stringent than others, so I'm wondering if anyone here has ever moved abroad and, if so, what their experience was. Where did you move to and when? Was it difficult? Complicated? Easier than expected?

Obviously I can google various countries' policies, but I'm more so looking to just hear firsthand accounts from people that have actually done it. Any insight would be much appreciated.

[Buffalo716]

My brother lives in Italy RN and it's not easy to make a professional career except in healthcare..  and it's still not like healthcare career in America

 

It's not as easy to make really good money in Italy , so lots of expats save their money first ... Get enough to buy a house.. then fully move in because it makes money and life easier 

 

It will take time to adjust.. because America is full of 24-hour convenience stores... They really don't have that in Italy... 

 

 also not a lot of diversity in Italy compared to America , so you are definitely going to be expected to adapt to local culture 

 

Slower pace of life

 

 

Edited November 7 by Buffalo716

[Logic]

13 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

My brother lives in Italy RN and it's not easy to make a professional career except in healthcare..  and it's still not like healthcare career in America

 

It's not as easy to make really good money in Italy , so lots of expats save their money first ... Get enough to buy a house.. then fully move in because it makes money and life easier 

 

It will take time to adjust.. because America is full of 24-hour convenience stores... They really don't have that in Italy... 

 

 also not a lot of diversity in Italy compared to America , so you are definitely going to be expected to adapt to local culture 

 

Slower pace of life

 

 

Yeah that's been the biggest drawback that's kept us from choosing Italy so far: employment.

I think I'd be okay (depending on where we chose to move) because I'm in hospitality, and there are always jobs at hotels. My wife would have a much harder time.

Shame, because the lifestyle and pace of living there seem perfect for us. But practically speaking, it seems tough to make a go of it unless you already have a big nest egg.

Thanks for the input.

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, Logic said:

Yeah that's been the biggest drawback that's kept us from choosing Italy so far: employment.

I think I'd be okay (depending on where we chose to move) because I'm in hospitality, and there are always jobs at hotels. My wife would have a much harder time.

Shame, because the lifestyle and pace of living there seem perfect for us. But practically speaking, it seems tough to make a go of it unless you already have a big nest egg.

Thanks for the input.

Yes... If you have a good amount of money saved and that's not an issue... Italy could be perfect for you 

 

The pace of life and the people are wonderful... The culture and cuisine is exquisite and their are sooo many beautiful small towns ... Some of the best restaurants you'll ever find are tiny family hole in the walls in a tiny town 

 

Employment is definitely the biggie , even for Italians...

 

Parlez vous Francais? Because Montreal is French Canadian right

 

 

[Logic]

13 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

 

Parlez vous Francais? Because Montreal is French Canadian right

 

 

Oui, tres bien.

I've heard great things about Montreal and Quebec City in terms of having the feel of being in a European city, but in Canada. Plus I'd still be within reasonable traveling distance of my family in western New York.

While employment prospects would be better for us, I've heard the process of repatriating to Canada has become fairly difficult these days. To put it politely, I don't exactly think Canada WANTS Americans at the moment.

[Buffalo716]

4 minutes ago, Logic said:

Oui, tres bien.

I've heard great things about Montreal and Quebec City in terms of having the feel of being in a European city, but in Canada. Plus I'd still be within reasonable traveling distance of my family in western New York.

While employment prospects would be better for us, I've heard the process of repatriating to Canada has become fairly difficult these days. To put it politely, I don't exactly think Canada WANTS Americans at the moment.

I've been all over but I've actually never been to Montreal 

 

I do speak French and I'm sure it's a beautiful city

[Mr Info]

France is stringent for citizenship and we are in the midst of pursuing this for my wife as her mother was born in France and was a French citizen.

i can only advise that our experience is that processing citizenship can be a trying prospect and expect slow response and innumerable documentation requirements depending upon the country requirements.

[Draconator]

This is not me, but my daughter is moving to the Netherlands. They seem to be an easier "in." All my daughter has to do is fill out the application for permanent residency, and she gets full Netherlander benefits, even before the application is approved. The only thing she will not be able to do is vote. But healthcare, free college, etc., are all hers for the asking. 

 

Of course, it helps when you have a boyfriend who is a citizen of The Netherlands and has a good job to sponsor you. However, the application aspect is valid for anyone who wants to live there. 

Edited November 7 by Draconator

[Buffalo Boy]

   Just turned 55 and paid my house off.  I have direct lineage and am about to start the process for dual citizenship in Croatia.

    If you can get dual citizenship in a Schengen country you get passport free travel through the whole of the EU.

   We’ve been to Italy, France, Austria, Hungary and Croatia. We LOVE Europe in general for the pace of life and food/drinks. Also, the train system is incredible in every country except Croatia.

    Upon retirement, our intention is to spend about 4 months living in a bunch of countries as a trial for weeks at a time . Then possibly  move there.

     

[Sweats]

59 minutes ago, Logic said:

Oui, tres bien.

I've heard great things about Montreal and Quebec City in terms of having the feel of being in a European city, but in Canada. Plus I'd still be within reasonable traveling distance of my family in western New York.

While employment prospects would be better for us, I've heard the process of repatriating to Canada has become fairly difficult these days. To put it politely, I don't exactly think Canada WANTS Americans at the moment.

 

 

 

 

Alright, i'm going to jump in here......

 

I just recently moved to Quebec and there are some things that people have to understand if they move here.

Quebec is divided into 3 parts (all 3 hate each other).

* Montreal.......there is a lot of culture, however, there is a lot of immigrants

* Quebec City.......is all geared around tourism

* Northern Quebec........is all separatists and the last bastion of the true French language and traditions

 

All 3 factions detest each other. Government spending gets spent on Montreal first, Quebec City 2nd and Northern Quebec last.......Northern Quebec believes they should have first crack at the spending because they are "true French", and Quebec City believes they should get first crack because they bring tourism money into the province......and round and round it goes.

 

Quebec is a beautiful province. I love it.

I live in Saguenay (northern Quebec.....the true heartland of the French). I don't speak a lot of French, and they have tried to make me feel like shiza up here because of it, but i just let them know i'm here and i ain't going anywhere......deal with it.

 

If you plan on moving to Quebec, hit me up and i'll hook you up........i know people.

[Logic]

12 minutes ago, Sweats said:

 

 

 

 

Alright, i'm going to jump in here......

 

I just recently moved to Quebec and there are some things that people have to understand if they move here.

Quebec is divided into 3 parts (all 3 hate each other).

* Montreal.......there is a lot of culture, however, there is a lot of immigrants

* Quebec City.......is all geared around tourism

* Northern Quebec........is all separatists and the last bastion of the true French language and traditions

 

All 3 factions detest each other. Government spending gets spent on Montreal first, Quebec City 2nd and Northern Quebec last.......Northern Quebec believes they should have first crack at the spending because they are "true French", and Quebec City believes they should get first crack because they bring tourism money into the province......and round and round it goes.

 

Quebec is a beautiful province. I love it.

I live in Saguenay (northern Quebec.....the true heartland of the French). I don't speak a lot of French, and they have tried to make me feel like shiza up here because of it, but i just let them know i'm here and i ain't going anywhere......deal with it.

 

If you plan on moving to Quebec, hit me up and i'll hook you up........i know people.

Wow. Incredibly informative and helpful. Thank you very kindly for this response and the invitation it ended with.

If you don't mind a follow up question: In terms of the practicalities of the immigration process (I assume you moved there from the U.S., although maybe that's not a safe assumption), did you find it to be rigorous/difficult? I hear mixed things from people trying to move from the U.S. to Canada in terms of the difficulty of the process and the realistic requirements for acceptance.

[Just Jack]

I don't have experience living in Canada, but I do have experience working in Canada.  The Canadians do not like Americans coming into their country for work.  Even though ours (Point of sale installations at fast food places) was only temp work, about a week each time, we would have to show that we had hired local Canadians contractors to assist us, and we were only there to supervise.  If you plan on working up there, I believe you will need to have a job lined up before moving.  

[Buffalo Boy]

   Our good friend, Mitzi, moved to Cozumel and bought a condo three blocks off the main road last April. She will be 70 this spring.

    $240k for a beautiful second story, 1700 sqf unit. Private gated parking spot, pool, rooftop terrace. She loves it.

     We go to Mexico’s Riviera Maya pretty much every year in Jan or Feb. Cozumel has become our go to.  It is safe, the food is fresh and healthy. The infrastructure is good with great WiFi wherever we stay. Cost of living is a solid 1/3 less than Charlotte NC.
    We wouldn’t live there as it would be too hot in the summer but we could definitely spend months there in the winter. 

[EmotionallyUnstable]

Try Portugal

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

15 hours ago, Logic said:

Anyone have any experience moving a broad?

 

Yes - I have helped my wife move all four times that we have moved into new homes.

 

[Sweats]

13 hours ago, Logic said:

Wow. Incredibly informative and helpful. Thank you very kindly for this response and the invitation it ended with.

If you don't mind a follow up question: In terms of the practicalities of the immigration process (I assume you moved there from the U.S., although maybe that's not a safe assumption), did you find it to be rigorous/difficult? I hear mixed things from people trying to move from the U.S. to Canada in terms of the difficulty of the process and the realistic requirements for acceptance.

 

 

 

I moved from Ontario, Canada to Quebec and although it was only one province over and roughly 15 hours away, the whole ordeal was a nightmare for us, as Ontario and Quebec don't like each other.......each one sees the other province as the "spoiled brat" of provinces, so moving from Ontario to especially northern Quebec, was just a longgggggggggggg drawn out process. It might not be this way to move to the rest of the province, but as i said earlier, northern Quebec doesn't really like outsiders and especially from Ontario.

The sad part is that my wife was originally from Saguenay, Quebec and we knew that we would retire their one day.

 

But i digress, as i should start from the beginning......

 

Roughly 3 years ago during Covid, a guy knocked on our door in Ontario and made a ridiculous offer on our house (it was actually an old estate that we bought a long time ago for pennies on the dollar, as it had fallen into bad shape and we had fixed up.......but rest assured, this was an actual true estate) which we thought the guys offer was a joke, but once we got the lawyers and real estate people involved and they did the history and background on this guy, they said his offer was legit, he wanted the estate bad and we couldn't turn it down.

The deal gave us enough money for both of us to retire.

So, we started looking at houses in northern Quebec and finally found one we liked......and that's when the problems for us started.

 

The Quebec government wouldn't let us move to Saguenay until we proved that we had a job to come to, as they didn't want us leaching off the system and i had to explain that we were retiring, didn't need a job, however, the red flags started going off for them when they saw i was only 52 and, in their eyes, too young to retire......also, we weren't getting a mortgage, we were paying outright cash.......and it was red flags again because in their eyes, no one pays total cash for a house.

 

We had to provide financial records, bank history, background checks, etc......i suggest if you have a sordid past, this inquisition will figure it out real quick.

The Quebec government finally put all the pieces together about selling the old house in Ontario for a fantastic price, no illegal or shady drug dealing stuff going on and we finally bought the house, but it was a long drawn-out process.

I stayed retired for about 2 years, but last year i got a call from the Bagotville Air Force base in Saguenay about coming on board for a project they were planning at the base and i've been working here ever since last year.

The Saguenay community has somewhat accepted us as they see that i am working at the Air Force base, we changed our license plates over from Ontario to Quebec on the cars (yes, something as small and simple as that) and that we contribute to the community.

 

In my eyes and from what i have seen, i don't think Quebec has much of a problem with the US. I don't think people moving from the states to Quebec would have the same similar nightmare that i had and especially the circumstances in which i moved (paying cash, retiring at 52, etc.)

The biggest thing that i have seen is that they just want to make sure that people moving here are going to contribute and not be a burden on their system. It almost feels like an interview setting where they want to make sure that people are the "right fit".

 

I honestly don't know the immigration process but honestly, it can't be any worse than the scenario we went through and as i say, i do believe it is easier to move into anywhere in Quebec besides the Saguenay region.

If people are looking for culture and ethnicity, Montreal is definitely for you and would probably be the easiest route to move from the US.

Quebec City is a little boring as there is not much more than tourism going on there and i think you would definitely have to provide proof that you have a job there before you move in that area.

Saguenay, although the most beautiful part of Quebec with the forests, lakes and mountain ranges, is probably the toughest area to move into and i can personally attest to that. 

[Sweats]

8 hours ago, Just Jack said:

I don't have experience living in Canada, but I do have experience working in Canada.  The Canadians do not like Americans coming into their country for work.  Even though ours (Point of sale installations at fast food places) was only temp work, about a week each time, we would have to show that we had hired local Canadians contractors to assist us, and we were only there to supervise.  If you plan on working up there, I believe you will need to have a job lined up before moving.  

 

 

 

This is exactly true.

The Canadian government will insist that a person has a job in Canada before moving here where an employer can verify sponsorship of employment. In Quebec particularly, they want to ensure that any employment opportunities are filled by a French- Canadian first and foremost and unless you have any special skills that are beneficial to that province, you will have a hard time getting in.

 

I have a long extensive nuclear background where i have worked all over the world in various countries in various capacities, which is not a run-of-the-mill experience background and kind of an exclusive work experience. Presently, i work at the Bagotville (northern Quebec) Air Force base which i know my past nuclear experience got me this position.......if i had the background experience of a "burger flipper" (not that there's anything wrong with that), there is no way i could have ever worked or lived in Saguenay, Quebec.

 

I believe that one of the first things immigration will look at is whether you have a job lined up to come to.......or whether you have any past work experience that is exclusive and beneficial to the provinces in varying capacities.

It's all a game and unfortunately, immigration keeps changing the rules between governments it would seem every time we have a change in leadership (Liberals, PC, NDP, etc.)

[boyst]

3 hours ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

Try Portugal

this or central america are the only real options for Americans if you do not have sponsorship or a job lined up.

 

i have the option to move to Germany at any time through work - but the EU is quite hard to get into and there would be a great many issues with my wife being able to work. Unless she was sponsored by a company she would not be able to work.

 

The trick is having both spouses and opportunity to work. This is rightfully difficult.

[Logic]

3 hours ago, Sweats said:

 

 

 

I moved from Ontario, Canada to Quebec and although it was only one province over and roughly 15 hours away, the whole ordeal was a nightmare for us, as Ontario and Quebec don't like each other.......each one sees the other province as the "spoiled brat" of provinces, so moving from Ontario to especially northern Quebec, was just a longgggggggggggg drawn out process. It might not be this way to move to the rest of the province, but as i said earlier, northern Quebec doesn't really like outsiders and especially from Ontario.

The sad part is that my wife was originally from Saguenay, Quebec and we knew that we would retire their one day.

 

But i digress, as i should start from the beginning......

 

Roughly 3 years ago during Covid, a guy knocked on our door in Ontario and made a ridiculous offer on our house (it was actually an old estate that we bought a long time ago for pennies on the dollar, as it had fallen into bad shape and we had fixed up.......but rest assured, this was an actual true estate) which we thought the guys offer was a joke, but once we got the lawyers and real estate people involved and they did the history and background on this guy, they said his offer was legit, he wanted the estate bad and we couldn't turn it down.

The deal gave us enough money for both of us to retire.

So, we started looking at houses in northern Quebec and finally found one we liked......and that's when the problems for us started.

 

The Quebec government wouldn't let us move to Saguenay until we proved that we had a job to come to, as they didn't want us leaching off the system and i had to explain that we were retiring, didn't need a job, however, the red flags started going off for them when they saw i was only 52 and, in their eyes, too young to retire......also, we weren't getting a mortgage, we were paying outright cash.......and it was red flags again because in their eyes, no one pays total cash for a house.

 

We had to provide financial records, bank history, background checks, etc......i suggest if you have a sordid past, this inquisition will figure it out real quick.

The Quebec government finally put all the pieces together about selling the old house in Ontario for a fantastic price, no illegal or shady drug dealing stuff going on and we finally bought the house, but it was a long drawn-out process.

I stayed retired for about 2 years, but last year i got a call from the Bagotville Air Force base in Saguenay about coming on board for a project they were planning at the base and i've been working here ever since last year.

The Saguenay community has somewhat accepted us as they see that i am working at the Air Force base, we changed our license plates over from Ontario to Quebec on the cars (yes, something as small and simple as that) and that we contribute to the community.

 

In my eyes and from what i have seen, i don't think Quebec has much of a problem with the US. I don't think people moving from the states to Quebec would have the same similar nightmare that i had and especially the circumstances in which i moved (paying cash, retiring at 52, etc.)

The biggest thing that i have seen is that they just want to make sure that people moving here are going to contribute and not be a burden on their system. It almost feels like an interview setting where they want to make sure that people are the "right fit".

 

I honestly don't know the immigration process but honestly, it can't be any worse than the scenario we went through and as i say, i do believe it is easier to move into anywhere in Quebec besides the Saguenay region.

If people are looking for culture and ethnicity, Montreal is definitely for you and would probably be the easiest route to move from the US.

Quebec City is a little boring as there is not much more than tourism going on there and i think you would definitely have to provide proof that you have a job there before you move in that area.

Saguenay, although the most beautiful part of Quebec with the forests, lakes and mountain ranges, is probably the toughest area to move into and i can personally attest to that. 

Thanks so much for this.

It's fascinating to hear how provincial (pun somewhat intended) and protective the populations of some areas are. In the case of Quebec, its a little bit more easily understandable, as I've always perceived that they take fierce pride in their heritage and culture.

What you say about the Canadian government mostly wanting to make sure you'll contribute to society, and the biggest obstacle being the need to have a job lined up or prove your value in terms of professional experience and skillset, lines up exactly with what my perception of the immigration process is.

The part that has always seemed a little bit tricky to me is the "chicken or egg" of it all: That is, it seems like it might be tough to get hired at a job without having moved there or become a citizen yet, while at the same time the only way TO move there and become a citizen is to already have a job in place. I don't have a modern, work-from-home, computer-based job like many who move abroad seem to. I work in hospitality. Currently doing accounting for a major hotel chain. My wife is the COO of a cannabis company. Somehow I don't imagine hospitality accounting or cannabis work to be desirable enough to the Canadian government to make them want to open their arms to us, but maybe I'm assuming too much and overthinking it.

In any case, Saguenay (which I wasn't very familiar with) looks beautiful. It's nature, gorges, and water features remind me a lot of the pacific northwest, where I live now. You've chosen a beautiful place to live!

Anyway...thanks again for your replies and congrats on your successful relocation. 


 

4 hours ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

Try Portugal

 

1 hour ago, boyst said:

this or central america are the only real options for Americans if you do not have sponsorship or a job lined up.

 

Interesting you should say this. My wife and I just vacationed in Portugal for the first time this year and loved it. We didn't get outside of Lisbon much, but we felt more or less right at home there. I had a hell of a time adjusting to the language (we had just been to Spain, and I wasn't prepared for how different Portuguese is from Spanish).

Anyway...thanks for the reminder. I'm gonna research the immigration process there.

Edited November 8 by Logic

[boyst]

38 minutes ago, Logic said:

Thanks so much for this.

It's fascinating to hear how provincial (pun somewhat intended) and protective the populations of some areas are. In the case of Quebec, its a little bit more easily understandable, as I've always perceived that they take fierce pride in their heritage and culture.

What you say about the Canadian government mostly wanting to make sure you'll contribute to society, and the biggest obstacle being the need to have a job lined up or prove your value in terms of professional experience and skillset, lines up exactly with what my perception of the immigration process is.

The part that has always seemed a little bit tricky to me is the "chicken or egg" of it all: That is, it seems like it might be tough to get hired at a job without having moved there or become a citizen yet, while at the same time the only way TO move there and become a citizen is to already have a job in place. I don't have a modern, work-from-home, computer-based job like many who move abroad seem to. I work in hospitality. Currently doing accounting for a major hotel chain. My wife is the COO of a cannabis company. Somehow I don't imagine hospitality accounting or cannabis work to be desirable enough to the Canadian government to make them want to open their arms to us, but maybe I'm assuming too much and overthinking it.

In any case, Saguenay (which I wasn't very familiar with) looks beautiful. It's nature, gorges, and water features remind me a lot of the pacific northwest, where I live now. You've chosen a beautiful place to live!

Anyway...thanks again for your replies and congrats on your successful relocation. 


 

 

Interesting you should say this. My wife and I just vacationed in Portugal for the first time this year and loved it. We didn't get outside of Lisbon much, but we felt more or less right at home there. I had a hell of a time adjusting to the language (we had just been to Spain, and I wasn't prepared for how different Portuguese is from Spanish).

Anyway...thanks for the reminder. I'm gonna research the immigration process there.

there is a major startup there in either windmills or solar that is doing a lot for their country. i don't know that it is a ground up start up or if it is just setting up shop there.