Ravens v. Bungles TNF Gamethread ( Please leave your Bills' observations at the door ; -)

[Man with No Name]

Lamar is playing lights out this year. Last year he was typically awesome, but not necessarily MVP level. But nobody else was either. 

 

To the people who can't help but see racism in everything, 

 

Lamar had a season of 16/13 TD/INT AFTER he already had a breakout season. nobody's comparing him to Ryan Leaf, but he had some definite weaknesses in his passing game for awhile. Still, even when he had those weaknesses, he did a great job staying within his strengths and still giving his team it's best chance to win. Of course he is complimented by one of the best HCs in the league. But like Brady, he's the one on the field doing it. 

[st pete gogolak]

1 hour ago, Utah John said:

The only reason I care at all about Josh getting MVP is to ensure he gets fair consideration for the HOF.  Do not laugh or scoff.  By the time he retires and waits five years, a lot of other QB play will come along, and what many sportswriters will remember is that the Bills couldn't get past the Chiefs in the playoffs (here's hoping that changes, but it hasn't yet).  Josh usually doesn't even make the Pro Bowl team for the AFC, unless it's as an alternate.  With the passing years, memories fade, and his superman years here will be old news.  People will want to assign him to the Hall of Very Good.  He'll be thought of as consistently the second or third or fourth best QB in the AFC, which will not sound impressive to HOF voters.

 

An MVP award, or a Lombardi, is the best guarantee for a really good QB to get into the HOF.  It would be a travesty for him not to make it, but there are a lot of great players still outside the HOF and no one knows why.

Wait till the Bills play the Chiefs, and the Chiefs need a 2 pt conversion to win.  The refs will call penalty after penalty on the Bills until they get the result they want.

 

There is absolutely no reason that both the penalties committed by the Ravens weren't called.  After the game, Fitz said he was OK with a no-call on the defensive holding because Burrow wasn't looking that way.  Well, gosh, a QB never looks off a defender, and then goes back the other way, right?  And the face mask penalty was clear as day.  

One of the other panelists (Ryan Clark?) said that refs were right to not call the face mask because “it didn’t impact the throw”. JFC!  It that the new rule for calling a penalty?  In a sense, he’s on to something. If a penalty doesn’t impact a play, maybe it shouldn’t be called.  Maybe that helps end the flag fests we see week in and week out that are ruining the game.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

31 minutes ago, st pete gogolak said:

One of the other panelists (Ryan Clark?) said that refs were right to not call the face mask because “it didn’t impact the throw”. JFC!  It that the new rule for calling a penalty?  In a sense, he’s on to something. If a penalty doesn’t impact a play, maybe it shouldn’t be called.  Maybe that helps end the flag fests we see week in and week out that are ruining the game.

 

That's not new. Refs keep their flags in their pocket for a lot penalties that don't affect the play. Especially holding. Like if a d-lineman is held after the ball is already thrown. Or backside hold on a running play that is already well beyond the hold. 

 

Now face mask. That should technically be called every time regardless of where in the play it happens and to who. 

[ganesh]

11 hours ago, SCBills said:

Bengals, imo, are still the in the group of 4 that could get to the Super Bowl, with KC, Buf and Bal. 
 

Burrow is playing at an elite level and if they can get into the postseason, that’s what you need. 
 

But they are in rough shape and their upcoming Chargers game is a must win. 
 

I don’t trust the Jets, but their schedule as a six loss team is much easier than the Bengals.   Steelers have a huge lead on them, and Cin better hope they don’t beat Washington this weekend or it starts getting even dicier as they have a tough schedule but would just be so far ahead. 
 

We saw what Miami can look like if Tua is right. 
 

I don’t really think Indy or Den are threats in the end, but maybe they hang around by default. 
 

So that’s 3 spots for the Steelers, Bengals, Jets, Dolphins and Chargers, with Broncos and Colts potentially hanging around. 

The Jets may have an easier schedule, but they are also very disorganized right now...usually they don't run the table

[Sierra Foothills]

10 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

My biggest problem with the MVP decision is it doesn't include the playoffs.  Lamar is historically "un-clutch" and bad in the playoffs. Yet every year we annoint LJ MVP by Nov 1st.  Josh basically has a perfect season going.  His 2 int's are 150% on his wrs.  And as usual he'll probably end up 3rd or 4th in the voting. I just feel Josh is heading toward the Dan Marino legacy more & more each year. And it frustrates the crap out of me.

 

The problem is that the NFL has a regular season MVP and a Super Bowl MVP BUT... they have no playoff MVP. In fact among the major North American sports leagues I think only the NHL (the Conn Smythe Trophy) has a playoff MVP. Related to that, the NHL does not have an exclusively Finals MVP whereas the other sports do.

 

That's part of the problem in the NFL MVP debate.

 

6 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

That's not new. Refs keep their flags in their pocket for a lot penalties that don't affect the play. Especially holding. Like if a d-lineman is held after the ball is already thrown. Or backside hold on a running play that is already well beyond the hold. 

 

Now face mask. That should technically be called every time regardless of where in the play it happens and to who. 

 

To the bolded, I don't agree.

 

IMO the NFL has a problem deciding whether officiating is guided by the letter of the law or the spirit of the law. If you're officiating by the letter of the law then yes, the facemask on Burrow is an infraction. If you're officiating by the spirit of the law (personal foul, ensuring player safety, intent to injure) then it becomes a matter of degree and it might not be a foul. Also I think a fair case can be made that the Madubuike facemask was inadvertent and therefore not malicious... that there was no intent to injure.

 

I believe the NFL's officiating crisis is actually pretty complex and involves discussions that are not usually found on message boards like this. For example, the whole debate about whether the NFL should enforce infractions away from the play is a pretty deep discussion. Then there's the related but slightly different discussion of infractions which have no effect on the outcome of the play.

 

 

 

 

[DapperCam]

7 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

Also I think a fair case can be made that the Madubuike facemask was inadvertent and therefore not malicious... that there was no intent to injure.

In my mind the facemask penalty exists because it is a safety issue, not necessarily because it gives an unfair advantage (although it does). From the perspective of safety they should call it no matter what the intent is. You could nearly rip a players head off by accident with a facemask with zero intent while making a tackle.

 

I agree that it’s a matter of degree on whether it should be called. I think they got rid of the 5 yard facemask for that reason (so small incidental facemasks don’t get called).

[Sierra Foothills]

14 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

In my mind the facemask penalty exists because it is a safety issue, not necessarily because it gives an unfair advantage (although it does). From the perspective of safety they should call it no matter what the intent is. You could nearly rip a players head off by accident with a facemask with zero intent while making a tackle.

 

I agree that it’s a matter of degree on whether it should be called. I think they got rid of the 5 yard facemask for that reason (so small incidental facemasks don’t get called).

 

Well let me ask you this then... if the Madubuike facemask was a penalty, was it a 5 yarder or a 15 yarder?

 

[SaulGoodman]

17 hours ago, Utah John said:

The only reason I care at all about Josh getting MVP is to ensure he gets fair consideration for the HOF.  Do not laugh or scoff.  By the time he retires and waits five years, a lot of other QB play will come along, and what many sportswriters will remember is that the Bills couldn't get past the Chiefs in the playoffs (here's hoping that changes, but it hasn't yet).  Josh usually doesn't even make the Pro Bowl team for the AFC, unless it's as an alternate.  With the passing years, memories fade, and his superman years here will be old news.  People will want to assign him to the Hall of Very Good.  He'll be thought of as consistently the second or third or fourth best QB in the AFC, which will not sound impressive to HOF voters.

 

An MVP award, or a Lombardi, is the best guarantee for a really good QB to get into the HOF.  It would be a travesty for him not to make it, but there are a lot of great players still outside the HOF and no one knows why.

Wait till the Bills play the Chiefs, and the Chiefs need a 2 pt conversion to win.  The refs will call penalty after penalty on the Bills until they get the result they want.

 

There is absolutely no reason that both the penalties committed by the Ravens weren't called.  After the game, Fitz said he was OK with a no-call on the defensive holding because Burrow wasn't looking that way.  Well, gosh, a QB never looks off a defender, and then goes back the other way, right?  And the face mask penalty was clear as day.  

The refs will call penalty after penalty until they get what they “want?”

 

You guys really buy into this conspiracy don’t you?

 

Why did they call an extremely uncommon and devastating penalty on KC in a crucial matchup vs the Bills last year?

[DapperCam]

8 hours ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

Well let me ask you this then... if the Madubuike facemask was a penalty, was it a 5 yarder or a 15 yarder?

 

It was borderline, but I would have called it. His head got yanked down with the helmet. I'm guessing the ref didn't see it, because they would normally call that I think.

[Utah John]

On 11/9/2024 at 7:06 AM, SaulGoodman said:

The refs will call penalty after penalty until they get what they “want?”

 

You guys really buy into this conspiracy don’t you?

 

Why did they call an extremely uncommon and devastating penalty on KC in a crucial matchup vs the Bills last year?

They made that call in the game last year because it was a clear penalty.  It was unignorable.  

[SaulGoodman]

37 minutes ago, Utah John said:

They made that call in the game last year because it was a clear penalty.  It was unignorable.  

Unignorable? Lol. It was literally the first time that had been called in Andy Reid's career. It goes ignored all the time. In fact, I could find hundreds of examples. 

Edited November 11 by SaulGoodman

[Utah John]

6 hours ago, SaulGoodman said:

Unignorable? Lol. It was literally the first time that had been called in Andy Reid's career. It goes ignored all the time. In fact, I could find hundreds of examples. 

Are you talking about the Chiefs player lining up with his foot offside?  Don't be silly.

[mannc]

On 11/8/2024 at 5:51 AM, Big Blitz said:

Do the Steelers have 4 wins on their schedule?   
 

Man I don’t think so….

 

 

Steelers 6-2

 

At Washington 

Vs Baltimore

At Browns

At Bengals 

Vs Browns 

At Eagles

At Ravens 

Vs Chiefs 

Vs Bengals 

 

 

Anyone who thinks the Steelers aren’t making the playoffs hasn’t been paying attention the last 15 years or so…

[SaulGoodman]

7 hours ago, Utah John said:

Are you talking about the Chiefs player lining up with his foot offside?  Don't be silly.

 

Like I said, it was the first time it's been called in Reid's 25 year career, and it's something that is ignored constantly. 

 

What was silly was the response to the late hit out of bounds in the '22 AFCC. Mahomes was knocked down a full two yds out of bounds. A truly unignorable call, yet NFL fans lost their minds. Let's face it....people just aren't objective on this issue. 

[Utah John]

4 hours ago, mannc said:

Anyone who thinks the Steelers aren’t making the playoffs hasn’t been paying attention the last 15 years or so…

Tomlin is the second best coach in the league (second to Reid).  He hasn't had a losing season, ever. He routinely figures out ways to defeat opponents with better personnel.

 

The downside of this excellence is not being able to draft a top QB.  So they figured out another way.  They found two by getting castoffs from other teams.  

 

The Steelers have a reasonable chance to win their division.  Who saw that coming?  It's almost as surprising as the Commanders having the year they're having.

[mannc]

22 minutes ago, Utah John said:

Tomlin is the second best coach in the league (second to Reid).  He hasn't had a losing season, ever. He routinely figures out ways to defeat opponents with better personnel.

 

The downside of this excellence is not being able to draft a top QB.  So they figured out another way.  They found two by getting castoffs from other teams.  

 

The Steelers have a reasonable chance to win their division.  Who saw that coming?  It's almost as surprising as the Commanders having the year they're having.

Not gonna lie, the Steelers are my second favorite team and it’s not close.   Talk about a franchise that knows its identity…and Tomlin is a great coach.  Never count them out…they’re going to smoke the Ravens on Sunday.