Ravens v. Bungles TNF Gamethread ( Please leave your Bills' observations at the door ; -)

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 hour ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

His stats will be great but so will be Goff's. Goff has a chance to set the single season completion percentage record on a Lions team that might go 16-1 or at worst 15-2. Lions look like a shoe - in for the one seed. I'm not convinced the Ravens will be able to even get the two seed in the AFC with their defense.  I'd expect at least two more losses for them on the year which would finish them as 12-5 at best. Could be hard to win the MVP over Goff and a 16-1 or 15-2 Lions team. 

 

I think some voters could be over Lamar too. Given the option of Goff or Jackson I would think / hope voters would give it to someone new. 

I think this is the year we learn this 1 seed thing has been mostly coincidence but I guess we shall see 🤣. Goff is very far below Lamar in betting odds right now and their running game is kind of robbing a lot of his stat opportunities 

[SCBills]

Bengals, imo, are still the in the group of 4 that could get to the Super Bowl, with KC, Buf and Bal. 
 

Burrow is playing at an elite level and if they can get into the postseason, that’s what you need. 
 

But they are in rough shape and their upcoming Chargers game is a must win. 
 

I don’t trust the Jets, but their schedule as a six loss team is much easier than the Bengals.   Steelers have a huge lead on them, and Cin better hope they don’t beat Washington this weekend or it starts getting even dicier as they have a tough schedule but would just be so far ahead. 
 

We saw what Miami can look like if Tua is right. 
 

I don’t really think Indy or Den are threats in the end, but maybe they hang around by default. 
 

So that’s 3 spots for the Steelers, Bengals, Jets, Dolphins and Chargers, with Broncos and Colts potentially hanging around. 

[Einstein]

11 minutes ago, Ray Stonada said:

You’re nitpicking. He threw 4 TDs and no picks and has 24 and 2 on the season. That’s better than “playing well.”

 

nitpicking means that you’re pointing out minor faults. I didn’t do that. I’m not pointing out any faults of his. I’m adding context to what his stats show.  

 

while a touchdown is a touchdown and counts the same, if we are going to talk about the level of difficulty that comes with a touchdown or how impressive the touchdown is for the person throwing it, then there should be context to how easy to throw was. 

 

For example; threading the needle with a bullet between two defenders for a touchdown, is a lot more difficult (and therefore impressive) than throwing to a wide open receiver in the middle of the end zone, who no defenders decided to cover. 

 

 

 

 

 

I’m a big fan of scheming guys open and the Ravens OC is doing a masterful job. Lamar did not suddenly become better over the 2023 offseason - he has an OC who is scheming guys open to perfection.

[GunnerBill]

26 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

nitpicking means that you’re pointing out minor faults. I didn’t do that. I’m not pointing out any faults of his. I’m adding context to what his stats show.  

 

while a touchdown is a touchdown and counts the same, if we are going to talk about the level of difficulty that comes with a touchdown or how impressive the touchdown is for the person throwing it, then there should be context to how easy to throw was. 

 

For example; threading the needle with a bullet between two defenders for a touchdown, is a lot more difficult (and therefore impressive) than throwing to a wide open receiver in the middle of the end zone, who no defenders decided to cover. 

 

 

 

 

 

I’m a big fan of scheming guys open and the Ravens OC is doing a masterful job. Lamar did not suddenly become better over the 2023 offseason - he has an OC who is scheming guys open to perfection.

 

I disagree. Lamar has got better. He is a better passer now than he has ever been. Todd Monken is doing a terrific job, no doubt. But you are seeing Lamar do things on film now thay he couldn't do before. 

[buffblue]

2 hours ago, Man with No Name said:

almost voted this up but took it away because im sick of this stupid "giving flowers" phrase😅

Respect

[Sierra Foothills]

3 hours ago, Spiderweb said:

Yeah, he hasn't even beat up a woman yet. A slug is better than Joe Nixon in every way.

 

This is just like those posts saying that Von Miller is washed and has no value to the Bills.

 

Lots of people want to judge the person and the player as one and the same.

 

Anyone who's watched Mixon play this year knows that he's still a tough, hard-nosed, dependable runner who gets the most out of a play. The Texans have leaned heavily on him this year with all their injuries at WR and Mixon's played very well for them... with 6 TDs and averaging almost 5 YPC.

 

2 hours ago, Livinginthepast said:

Bengals had that game and blew it yet again. Their fumble at 21-7 was the turning point. That would have been a real test for him but the Bengals let him off the hook.

 

 

1 hour ago, Man with No Name said:

almost voted this up but took it away because im sick of this stupid "giving flowers" phrase😅

 

Like pretty much everything in America, "giving flowers" is a dumbed down bastardization of an earlier phrase "tossing bouquets."

 

1 hour ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

His stats will be great but so will be Goff's. Goff has a chance to set the single season completion percentage record on a Lions team that might go 16-1 or at worst 15-2. Lions look like a shoe - in for the one seed. I'm not convinced the Ravens will be able to even get the two seed in the AFC with their defense.  I'd expect at least two more losses for them on the year which would finish them as 12-5 at best. Could be hard to win the MVP over Goff and a 16-1 or 15-2 Lions team. 

 

I think some voters could be over Lamar too. Given the option of Goff or Jackson I would think / hope voters would give it to someone new. 

 

Regarding the NFL MVP, in 7 of the last 10 years the award has gone to the QB of the team with the most regular season wins. Twice it went to the QB with the second-most wins (Mahomes in 2018 and Rodgers in 2020). In 2016 it went to Matt Ryan who had the 4th most wins.

 

IMO Josh was the most deserving player last year. Despite the turnovers his total touchdowns dwarfed everyone else's and he carried his team more than any other team... but the Bills had 11 wins to 13 for the Ravens.

 

The voting should be very interesting this year.

 

 

[Livinginthepast]

18 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

This is just like those posts saying that Von Miller is washed and has no value to the Bills.

 

Lots of people want to judge the person and the player as one and the same.

 

Anyone who's watched Mixon play this year knows that he's still a tough, hard-nosed, dependable runner who gets the most out of a play. The Texans have leaned heavily on him this year with all their injuries at WR and Mixon's played very well for them... with 6 TDs and averaging almost 5 YPC.

 

 

 

 

Like pretty much everything in America, "giving flowers" is a dumbed down bastardization of an earlier phrase "tossing bouquets."

 

 

Regarding the NFL MVP, in 7 of the last 10 years the award has gone to the QB of the team with the most regular season wins. Twice it went to the QB with the second-most wins (Mahomes in 2018 and Rodgers in 2020). In 2016 it went to Matt Ryan who had the 4th most wins.

 

IMO Josh was the most deserving player last year. Despite the turnovers his total touchdowns dwarfed everyone else's and he carried his team more than any other team... but the Bills had 11 wins to 13 for the Ravens.

 

The voting should be very interesting this year.

 

 

Still the best press conference after a game I have ever seen. Total authenticity from Green and totally justified. 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I disagree. Lamar has got better. He is a better passer now than he has ever been. Todd Monken is doing a terrific job, no doubt. But you are seeing Lamar do things on film now thay he couldn't do before. 

He is throwing with anticipation now which I never really saw him do before.  Herbstreit was pointing it out last night.

[GoBills808]

lamar has always been a good thrower lol

 

there are just a lot of weirdos who never wanted to say it for some reason

 

he's always been a great qb. for some reason it kills people to admit it. they do the same w allen

[Man with No Name]

5 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

lamar has always been a good thrower lol

 

there are just a lot of weirdos who never wanted to say it for some reason

 

he's always been a great qb. for some reason it kills people to admit it. they do the same w allen

he has always been great at staying within his strengths. And now he has WAY more strengths. He has improved a lot. It's not questionable. 

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, Man with No Name said:

he has always been great at staying within his strengths. And now he has WAY more strengths. He has improved a lot. It's not questionable. 

Much like every quarterback to ever play in the league

[Ethan in Cleveland]

30 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

lamar has always been a good thrower lol

 

there are just a lot of weirdos who never wanted to say it for some reason

 

he's always been a great qb. for some reason it kills people to admit it. they do the same w allen

Some reason? Cmon we know why.

 

Slow eyes

Doesn't process quickly

Single read QB

 

All euphemisms and racist tropes while denying he has always been a good passer even back at Lousiville.  

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

This is just like those posts saying that Von Miller is washed and has no value to the Bills.

 

Lots of people want to judge the person and the player as one and the same.

 

Anyone who's watched Mixon play this year knows that he's still a tough, hard-nosed, dependable runner who gets the most out of a play. The Texans have leaned heavily on him this year with all their injuries at WR and Mixon's played very well for them... with 6 TDs and averaging almost 5 YPC.

 

 

 

 

Like pretty much everything in America, "giving flowers" is a dumbed down bastardization of an earlier phrase "tossing bouquets."

 

 

Regarding the NFL MVP, in 7 of the last 10 years the award has gone to the QB of the team with the most regular season wins. Twice it went to the QB with the second-most wins (Mahomes in 2018 and Rodgers in 2020). In 2016 it went to Matt Ryan who had the 4th most wins.

 

IMO Josh was the most deserving player last year. Despite the turnovers his total touchdowns dwarfed everyone else's and he carried his team more than any other team... but the Bills had 11 wins to 13 for the Ravens.

 

The voting should be very interesting this year.

 

 

My biggest problem with the MVP decision is it doesn't include the playoffs.  Lamar is historically "un-clutch" and bad in the playoffs. Yet every year we annoint LJ MVP by Nov 1st.  Josh basically has a perfect season going.  His 2 int's are 150% on his wrs.  And as usual he'll probably end up 3rd or 4th in the voting. I just feel Josh is heading toward the Dan Marino legacy more & more each year. And it frustrates the crap out of me.

[Alphadawg7]

3 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

nitpicking means that you’re pointing out minor faults. I didn’t do that. I’m not pointing out any faults of his. I’m adding context to what his stats show.  

 

while a touchdown is a touchdown and counts the same, if we are going to talk about the level of difficulty that comes with a touchdown or how impressive the touchdown is for the person throwing it, then there should be context to how easy to throw was. 

 

For example; threading the needle with a bullet between two defenders for a touchdown, is a lot more difficult (and therefore impressive) than throwing to a wide open receiver in the middle of the end zone, who no defenders decided to cover. 

 

 

 

 

 

I’m a big fan of scheming guys open and the Ravens OC is doing a masterful job. Lamar did not suddenly become better over the 2023 offseason - he has an OC who is scheming guys open to perfection.

You’re not watching him play, at least not closely, if you think this is all that is involved and Lamar isn’t playing at a higher level.

 

First, let’s not forget the weapons around Lamar have been poor most of his career.  Having better weapons helps make a QB better, you should know this better than anyone with all the posts you’ve made complaining Josh needs better weapons.  
 

Second, he is throwing with anticipation, ball is in the air before the receiver has even made or completed his break.  He is throwing to spots, not just to wide open guys.  His ability to throw with that anticipation was missing in his earlier years too, that alone is a significant improvement as a passer.  And part of the reason guys are open is because of him throwing with anticipation before the break and before the defender has time to adjust.  
 

People like to give all the credit to the OC for “scheming” guys open, or all the credit to the WR for “getting open” or even saying the defense “didn’t cover them” etc…but a big part of that is a QB also throwing guys open.  And that is definitely something Lamar has improved on.  
 

Do I think Allen is the better QB overall, yes, but the gap is much closer than people want to admit with Lamar.  Especially considering Lamar has never had anything like Mahomes, Allen, and Burrow have had in terms of weapons to throw to in his career (and still doesn’t).  I mean how much better could Lamar be with just one guy like a Hill, Chase, Diggs, etc?  Now he has Flowers emerging, but he is still not at those guys level.  
 

Lamar is earning his MVP buzz this year even more than he did last year when he almost won it unanimously.  

[MikePJ76]

The bengals had their chance to be the 23 bills and go on a run at 4-5 ish.....Now they are in a tough spot for that 6 or 7 seed.  

They finish the season home to Denver and at pittsburgh.  Both games might be games to stay in the wild card race for each of the 3 teams.

 

The chargers are in a good spot to steal that third wild card spot from the afc north.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

lamar has always been a good thrower lol

 

there are just a lot of weirdos who never wanted to say it for some reason

 

he's always been a great qb. for some reason it kills people to admit it. they do the same w allen

 

Agree but he is playing better than ever this year and he is still adding bits to his game. It is super impressive. 

 

[st pete gogolak]

Ending of Bengals - Ravens changed my mind about going for 2 at end of game.  The week before I was all over the Bucs for not going for 2 against the Chiefs.  But as Burrow said in the press conference, refs aren’t going to call anything at that point.   If that’s the case, it really reduces chances of a successful conversion.  

[Ray Stonada]

2 minutes ago, st pete gogolak said:

Ending of Bengals - Ravens changed my mind about going for 2 at end of game.  The week before I was all over the Bucs for not going for 2 against the Chiefs.  But as Burrow said in the press conference, refs aren’t going to call anything at that point.   If that’s the case, it really reduces chances of a successful conversion.  

Decision also depends on what kind of team you are. A super precise team with tons of special plays like the Chiefs, sure. A team like the Bengals that relies on superior talent winning out over many plays, not so much.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, st pete gogolak said:

Ending of Bengals - Ravens changed my mind about going for 2 at end of game.  The week before I was all over the Bucs for not going for 2 against the Chiefs.  But as Burrow said in the press conference, refs aren’t going to call anything at that point.   If that’s the case, it really reduces chances of a successful conversion.  

 

2 point conversion rates are down the last two years anyway. As was always predictable the more teams go for it the bigger the sample size the success rate was always likely to reduce.

 

That said I thought the Bengals were right to try. 

[Utah John]

The only reason I care at all about Josh getting MVP is to ensure he gets fair consideration for the HOF.  Do not laugh or scoff.  By the time he retires and waits five years, a lot of other QB play will come along, and what many sportswriters will remember is that the Bills couldn't get past the Chiefs in the playoffs (here's hoping that changes, but it hasn't yet).  Josh usually doesn't even make the Pro Bowl team for the AFC, unless it's as an alternate.  With the passing years, memories fade, and his superman years here will be old news.  People will want to assign him to the Hall of Very Good.  He'll be thought of as consistently the second or third or fourth best QB in the AFC, which will not sound impressive to HOF voters.

 

An MVP award, or a Lombardi, is the best guarantee for a really good QB to get into the HOF.  It would be a travesty for him not to make it, but there are a lot of great players still outside the HOF and no one knows why.

46 minutes ago, st pete gogolak said:

Ending of Bengals - Ravens changed my mind about going for 2 at end of game.  The week before I was all over the Bucs for not going for 2 against the Chiefs.  But as Burrow said in the press conference, refs aren’t going to call anything at that point.   If that’s the case, it really reduces chances of a successful conversion.  

Wait till the Bills play the Chiefs, and the Chiefs need a 2 pt conversion to win.  The refs will call penalty after penalty on the Bills until they get the result they want.

 

There is absolutely no reason that both the penalties committed by the Ravens weren't called.  After the game, Fitz said he was OK with a no-call on the defensive holding because Burrow wasn't looking that way.  Well, gosh, a QB never looks off a defender, and then goes back the other way, right?  And the face mask penalty was clear as day.