Kansas City/Tampa Bay on Monday Night Football

[Buffalo03]

2 hours ago, st pete gogolak said:

TB not going for two. You knew they were toast as soon as they kicked the extra point.  After Davis scored with 13 seconds left, I really wanted the Bills to go for two.  Chiefs were reeling. Put a dagger in them. If successful, even McDermott and Frazier aren’t going to give up a TD in 13 seconds. If unsuccessful, maybe the mind is focused and Bass doesn’t kick it into the end zone, maybe the safeties aren’t playing 30 yards deep, maybe Hill doesn’t run for 20 yards before encountering a Bills defender.  Sorry, but if you have a chance to beat the Chiefs at Arrowhead by going for two at the end of the game, do it!!

I agree with going for 2 in the regular season. To me it's stupid to do it in the playoffs when you don't have to

[Meatloaf63]

2 hours ago, Sojourner said:

That’s the only thing that I really have a problem with whenever I watch that team play. How they don’t call that false start on Taylor on the play to Kelce is mind boggling.

 

Are they a good team? Yes. Absolutely. But the amount of calls that get missed in key moments is absurd. The calls in defining moments rarely if ever go against them but frequently and more often than not go for them.  
 

The Worthy catch early in the game was called good initially but on the replay both of his feet were out of bounds. It might have been close but come on….

The ref either wasn’t paying attention or he’s a bold face liar, both were out and it wasn’t close.

[TheFunPolice]

1 hour ago, Buffalo03 said:

I agree with going for 2 in the regular season. To me it's stupid to do it in the playoffs when you don't have to

 

I kind of get that, but what would you want the other team to do?

 

Superbowl... Bills up 17-10.... the NFC team scores with 3 seconds left to make it 17-16

 

I think most Bills fans would hope for the other team to try the XP. 

[MJS]

8 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

I kind of get that, but what would you want the other team to do?

 

Superbowl... Bills up 17-10.... the NFC team scores with 3 seconds left to make it 17-16

 

I think most Bills fans would hope for the other team to try the XP. 

Man, it would suck to lose the superbowl that way on a successful 2-point play to end the game... That is "Wide Right" territory.

[Buffalo03]

23 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

 

I kind of get that, but what would you want the other team to do?

 

Superbowl... Bills up 17-10.... the NFC team scores with 3 seconds left to make it 17-16

 

I think most Bills fans would hope for the other team to try the XP. 

Yeah, but as a head coach, I could live with the fact if I went to the playoffs or Super Bowl, came within 1 point of tying the game up in the final seconds and either missed the extra point or took my shot and lost in overtime. I couldn't live with the fact that I basically gave the game away with a possible 1 point loss because of a missed 2 point conversion that I didn't need to even attempt in the first place. If the 2 pt conversion was attempted from the 1 yard line, I would agree because I would just QB sneak and tush push it in. The 2 yard line is a whole different situation. It's too long for a QB sneak, to risky to do a run play and even passing it is risky. I just wouldn't do it

Edited November 5 by Buffalo03

[Success]

Man, the national hate for KC is off the charts now.  I think it's actually close to surpassing what we saw for the Patriots.

 

They really do seem to always end up on the positive side of the officiating.  The Pats were the same way.  I remember when we played them, that part of it was tough, since we needed to play an almost perfect game just to have a chance anyway.

 

[The Jokeman]

5 hours ago, Just Jack said:

For those that watched the game, and may have been switching networks, did you notice a lag in the feed?  I was on a plane, I was watching the ESPN2 feed, the guy in the row ahead of me had his on ESPN.  My feed was over a minute ahead of his.  I checked ABC also, and their feed also was ahead of ESPN.  Switched to ESPN to see if maybe it was just something funky with his TV, but nope.  My ESPN synced up with his.  Switched back to ESPN2, and same thing, it was over a minute ahead.  Just curious if it's because I was on a plane and not on cable/OTA. 

When I stream at home live TV through a box always ahead the app. Whether to be NFL or any other program. Not sure if it's a full minute or not.

[SaulGoodman]

2 hours ago, Success said:

Man, the national hate for KC is off the charts now.  I think it's actually close to surpassing what we saw for the Patriots.

 

They really do seem to always end up on the positive side of the officiating.  The Pats were the same way.  I remember when we played them, that part of it was tough, since we needed to play an almost perfect game just to have a chance anyway.

 

 

No, they definitely don't always end up on the positive side of officiating. They've been one of the most penalized teams in the league since Mahomes took over. And even if you want to focus solely on late-game calls, I could list numerous late calls that went against them, including in the playoffs. 

 

The ref narrative is a reach to discredit KC/Mahomes. Nothing more, nothing less.

Edited November 5 by SaulGoodman

[Success]

12 minutes ago, SaulGoodman said:

 

No, they definitely don't always end up on the positive side of officiating. They've been one of the most penalized teams in the league since Mahomes took over. And even if you want to focus solely on late-game calls, I could list numerous late calls that went against them, including in the playoffs. 

 

The ref narrative is a reach to discredit KC/Mahomes. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

Normally, I'd agree. I'm not a conspiracy guy.

 

But you consider some of the crucial calls they've gotten in the playoffs and even SB, and now just about every game this season.  That's either a ton of luck & good timing, or something I can't explain.

 

[Sojourner]

1 hour ago, SaulGoodman said:

 

No, they definitely don't always end up on the positive side of officiating. They've been one of the most penalized teams in the league since Mahomes took over. And even if you want to focus solely on late-game calls, I could list numerous late calls that went against them, including in the playoffs. 

 

The ref narrative is a reach to discredit KC/Mahomes. Nothing more, nothing less.

Please, list the late calls that have gone against them. 
 

No one is suggesting they aren’t a penalized team since then. They’re middle of the pack. 10th overall. Since 2020, the following season since their first Super Bowl under Reid/Mahomes, they are 16th for penalties. 
 

So yeah, get the stats that back up the calls don’t go against them when the game actually matters. Not saying you’re wrong just that if it is indeed a “narrative” that is fans have against them then it should be easy to prove. 
 

 

Not to rehash this but honestly man, if you watch any chiefs game Taylor is moving before the snap over half of the time. It’s rarely if ever called. The fact that I watched the relay of the MNF game and Joe Buck was amazed how they didn’t throw the flag says more than alleged narratives. 

[Saxum]

3 hours ago, SaulGoodman said:

 

No, they definitely don't always end up on the positive side of officiating. They've been one of the most penalized teams in the league since Mahomes took over. And even if you want to focus solely on late-game calls, I could list numerous late calls that went against them, including in the playoffs. 

 

The ref narrative is a reach to discredit KC/Mahomes. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

Looked at your post history - you are Mahomes defender. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Einstein]

9 hours ago, Buffalo03 said:

I agree with going for 2 in the regular season. To me it's stupid to do it in the playoffs when you don't have to

 

The math is different in the playoffs because the game doesn’t end with a TD.

[Just Jack]

7 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

When I stream at home live TV through a box always ahead the app. Whether to be NFL or any other program. Not sure if it's a full minute or not.

 

Except we weren't using an app, it was the seat back TV's built into the seats.  So essentially, we were using the same satellite signal.  

[SaulGoodman]

14 hours ago, Success said:

 

Normally, I'd agree. I'm not a conspiracy guy.

 

But you consider some of the crucial calls they've gotten in the playoffs and even SB, and now just about every game this season.  That's either a ton of luck & good timing, or something I can't explain.

 

Have you ever considered that your perception might be skewed because you’re looking for it? 
 

Case in point…the ATL game a month ago. KC was flagged three times on the Falcons’ last drive, at least one of which was an awful call. The refs almost carried Atlanta into the end zone for the winning TD. The fan reaction to the game? “Did you see that missed call on the 2nd to last drive?! Obvious fix!”

 

It’s comical that haters pretend to have objectivity on this. 

[stevewin]

13 hours ago, Sojourner said:

Please, list the late calls that have gone against them. 
 

No one is suggesting they aren’t a penalized team since then. They’re middle of the pack. 10th overall. Since 2020, the following season since their first Super Bowl under Reid/Mahomes, they are 16th for penalties. 
 

So yeah, get the stats that back up the calls don’t go against them when the game actually matters. Not saying you’re wrong just that if it is indeed a “narrative” that is fans have against them then it should be easy to prove. 
 

 

Not to rehash this but honestly man, if you watch any chiefs game Taylor is moving before the snap over half of the time. It’s rarely if ever called. The fact that I watched the relay of the MNF game and Joe Buck was amazed how they didn’t throw the flag says more than alleged narratives. 

Regardless number of penalties is a meaningless metric to use.  The most important thing is overall what was the balance of officiating in a particular game vs the opponent.  Were there critical penalties called against the other team that killed their drives and kept KC drives alive.  And were there calls that weren't made against KC that should have been.  It's the same formula as the Patriots* "dynasty" - critical game-changing calls against the other team, many times early in the game to have them play from behind - then some meaningless 5 yd penalties on 1st down against Pats* (now KC) later in the game to 'even it out' on the stat sheet (while ignoring others).   And then throw in the phantom PI call on the late drive if necessary.

 

I've always wished someone would do an analysis of penalties in games in the Patriot* "dynasty" to show the pattern above.  It is definitely trending the same for KC now.  I guarantee Brady was by far the biggest benefactor of late game PI calls in the history of the sport - we'll see if Mahomes can catch up

Edited November 6 by stevewin

[machine gun kelly]

Living here in Tampa for the last 30 years (you guys know I still bleed red, white, and royal blue, but between my friends and sons, I’d never root against the Bucs except once ever 4 years) it was frustrating how many missed opportunities Winfield missed that could have been Ints.  
 

Also, given the Bucs are 4-5, but except the 49ers this week, so 4-6, the remainder of the schedule is pretty easy.

 

They could end up 10-7 and either a wildcard or possibly the Falcons breakdown.  For my sons and my close friends, I’d like to see them get through it.  Supposedly Evans is back week 11 or 12.  He is the easy button for Mayfield who even in losses has played well.

 

Now that the Bucs have burnt through the dead destruction of Brady, next year they should have cap space.

 

I don’t expect them to go deep in the NFC playoffs, but a turnaround year where they may win a wildcard game.

 

Mayfield is cheap comparatively at $33 mil. for 3 yrs. Vs. the recent avg of the early 50’s.

 

Even with Evans injury he could break the NFL record this year with the most consistent 1000 yards seasons.

[SaulGoodman]

15 hours ago, Sojourner said:

Please, list the late calls that have gone against them. 
 

No one is suggesting they aren’t a penalized team since then. They’re middle of the pack. 10th overall. Since 2020, the following season since their first Super Bowl under Reid/Mahomes, they are 16th for penalties. 
 

So yeah, get the stats that back up the calls don’t go against them when the game actually matters. Not saying you’re wrong just that if it is indeed a “narrative” that is fans have against them then it should be easy to prove. 
 

 

Not to rehash this but honestly man, if you watch any chiefs game Taylor is moving before the snap over half of the time. It’s rarely if ever called. The fact that I watched the relay of the MNF game and Joe Buck was amazed how they didn’t throw the flag says more than alleged narratives. 

 

Remember the Dee Ford call that cost them a SB appearance in Mahomes' first season? Shortly before that, they called Chris Jones for roughing for tapping Brady's shoulder pad. 

 

In the 2020 SB, flags were falling like confetti. 

 

Last year, SF drew a flag on 3rd down that gave them a fresh set of downs in OT. 

 

In the 2nd half of the SB vs the Eagles, a defensive score was wiped off the board on a very questionable call. 

 

The list of late calls that went against the Chiefs in the regular season would be a mile long, including the call on Toney last year vs your Bills. Imagine if the roles were reversed and KC got that call and the win. Your fanbase would've gone ballistic and claimed fix. But when it benefits one's own team....crickets. 

 

Edited November 6 by SaulGoodman

[Sojourner]

2 minutes ago, SaulGoodman said:

 

Remember the Dee Ford call that cost them a SB appearance in Mahomes' first season? Shortly before that, they called Chris Jones for roughing for tapping Brady's shoulder pad. 

 

In the 2020 SB, flags were falling like confetti. 

 

Last year, SF drew a flag on 3rd down that gave them a fresh set of downs in OT. 

 

In the 2nd half of the SB vs the Eagles, a defensive score was wiped off the board on a very questionable call. 

 

The list of late calls that went against the Chiefs in the regular season would be a mile long, including the call on Toney last year vs your Bills. Imagine if the roles were reversed and KC got that call and the win. Your fanbase would've gone ballistic and claimed fix. But when it benefits one's own team....crickets. 

 

There’s been times but all of those were blatantly bad that you can’t hold the flag. Same with the flacons game you mentioned where Ray Ray’s face mask is getting yanked and Mooney is being tackled downfield by Watson. 
 

Calls go against them, yes. But when it’s all said and done the flags fly on questionable calls for them and very little against them. 
 

They get the benefit of the doubt more often than not. The fact their starting right tackle isn’t set on the LOS and moves over half of the time tells you all you need to know. 

[SaulGoodman]

2 hours ago, Sojourner said:

There’s been times but all of those were blatantly bad that you can’t hold the flag. Same with the flacons game you mentioned where Ray Ray’s face mask is getting yanked and Mooney is being tackled downfield by Watson. 
 

Calls go against them, yes. But when it’s all said and done the flags fly on questionable calls for them and very little against them. 
 

They get the benefit of the doubt more often than not. The fact their starting right tackle isn’t set on the LOS and moves over half of the time tells you all you need to know. 

It’s easy to say that, but no one ever has numbers to back it up. 
 

As for Taylor… if anything, he’s proof that there’s no agenda to help the Chiefs. I think he was penalized more times in half a season last year than in four years in Jacksonville. Nothing about his alignment or habits changed when he arrived in KC, yet he was targeted relentlessly starting in week 1.
 

Then the rate of flags slowed down, and people claimed conspiracy. So was there a conspiracy to help Jacksonville?

Edited November 6 by SaulGoodman

[SaulGoodman]

4 hours ago, stevewin said:

Regardless number of penalties is a meaningless metric to use. 

 

 

The penalty numbers may not prove anything, but they definitely don't help the KC bias argument. 

 

4 hours ago, stevewin said:

The most important thing is overall what was the balance of officiating in a particular game vs the opponent. 

 

That's actually the point I've tried to make. Focusing solely on one call near the end of a 60-min game is silly. Which team benefited more from officiating throughout the course of 60 minutes?

 

The game that started the "KC gets all the calls" frenzy was the '22 AFC title game vs the Bengals. People lost their minds when a defender was flagged for a late hit after shoving Mahomes to the ground two yds out of bounds. Earlier in the same game, a KC TD was wiped off the board and a Burrow INT was negated by penalty. Aside from the fact that the late hit was clearly the right call (and so egregious that they had no choice but to call it), do you think that call had a greater impact on the outcome than erasing a TD and INT? Would the game have even been close enough for it to matter if those calls weren't made?

 

Of course the controversy continued in the SB vs the Eagles. Now, even though rules experts defended the holding call, I'd agree that the timing was very fortuitous for the Chiefs. But if they hadn't wiped out a defensive TD earlier in the half (on a very questionable call), would it have come down to that?

 

I read recently that KC's had more TDs erased by penalty than any team during the Mahomes era. Even if they're not #1, they're definitely way up there. For awhile it seemed to happen every game. Last postseason, they were the only team to have a TD erased and it happened multiple times.