SI Article on Bills Successful Re-load

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

2 hours ago, colin said:

if you remember, the bucs had dungy who built them up but could not get them over the hump, they ditched him for gruden.  gruden won a chip for them, and dungy went on to win a chip for the colts.  some times you just need to change what isn't working.  philly had ried but never got over the hump and won their first chip after bringing in a new coach too.

 

Sure that can happen.  But when factor in McD's record, it's one of the best in the league so the odds on being able to improve on that has a very low chance probability wise.

 

People say we should bring in Ben Johnson that would improve things.  How is Johnson any better than Daboll was 3 years ago when the Giants hired him.  How's that worked out?  Easy to blame it on the QB, but there's been too many Daboll blow ups, issues that tells me he's a great coordinator, but not a good HC.  If this was an argument the Bengals were making, outside of the one year they went to the SB, could argue the other years Taylor's record hasn't been that great so could argue, there is a much better chance of improvement than here.  Same could be said about McVey in LA, one year great, but other than that, last time I checked slightly worse record than Buffalo.

 

Look at how many teams hire new coaches and it doesn't work out, many more than do work out for the better.

[Dr. K]

48 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Sure that can happen.  But when factor in McD's record, it's one of the best in the league so the odds on being able to improve on that has a very low chance probability wise.

 

People say we should bring in Ben Johnson that would improve things.  How is Johnson any better than Daboll was 3 years ago when the Giants hired him.  How's that worked out?  Easy to blame it on the QB, but there's been too many Daboll blow ups, issues that tells me he's a great coordinator, but not a good HC.  If this was an argument the Bengals were making, outside of the one year they went to the SB, could argue the other years Taylor's record hasn't been that great so could argue, there is a much better chance of improvement than here.  Same could be said about McVey in LA, one year great, but other than that, last time I checked slightly worse record than Buffalo.

 

Look at how many teams hire new coaches and it doesn't work out, many more than do work out for the better.

I have a friend who is a rabid Bengals fan and he says there is a vocal contingent of Bengals fans who are fed up with Taylor and screaming for his head. 

The grass is always greener. Those calling for McDermott to be fired seldom name the coach they think is going to come in and instantly win a Super Bowl. When the do give a name it's as much wishful thinking as analysis: they completely discount those many things that McDermott does that are hard to come by in a coach, somehow expecting this new guy to have all those qualities plus never make a mistake and never have his kicker miss a tying field goal in a playoff game.  

[GoBills808]

Just now, Dr. K said:

I have a friend who is a rabid Bengals fan and he says there is a vocal contingent of Bengals fans who are fed up with Taylor and screaming for his head. 

The grass is always greener. Those calling for McDermott to be fired seldom name the coach they think is going to come in and instantly win a Super Bowl. When the do give a name it's as much wishful thinking as analysis: they completely discount those many things that McDermott does that are hard to come by in a coach, somehow expecting this new guy to have all those qualities plus never make a mistake and never have his kicker miss a tying field goal in a playoff game.  

Ben johnson

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

31 minutes ago, Dr. K said:

I have a friend who is a rabid Bengals fan and he says there is a vocal contingent of Bengals fans who are fed up with Taylor and screaming for his head. 

The grass is always greener. Those calling for McDermott to be fired seldom name the coach they think is going to come in and instantly win a Super Bowl. When the do give a name it's as much wishful thinking as analysis: they completely discount those many things that McDermott does that are hard to come by in a coach, somehow expecting this new guy to have all those qualities plus never make a mistake and never have his kicker miss a tying field goal in a playoff game.  

 

Well many say Ben Johnson and just make this assumption that because he is a very good to great OC, he'll be a great HC  (just like Daboll) And assume as long as you have a great QB which we do, a good OC will take care of the rest.  All he needs to do is "roll the balls out" as they say in basketball.

[HappyDays]

16 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Well many say Ben Johnson and just make this assumption that because he is a very good to great OC, he'll be a great HC  (just like Daboll) And assume as long as you have a great QB which we do, a good OC will take care of the rest.  All he needs to do is "roll the balls out" as they say in basketball.

 

Daboll has never been a great OC at any point in his career. Ben Johnson transformed Goff into a top 10 QB and has built the most dominant offense in the league. And the offense has gotten better and better each year so it's not a flash in the plan. The respective resumes of those coaches are not close IMO.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

7 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Daboll has never been a great OC at any point in his career. Ben Johnson transformed Goff into a top 10 QB and has built the most dominant offense in the league. And the offense has gotten better and better each year so it's not a flash in the plan. The respective resumes of those coaches are not close IMO.

 

If Daboll was so bad, why was he a hot commodity for a HC job back then and everyone here was talking about how we're going to lose him at year end?  The Bills also improved when Daboll was here.  And BTW getting better each year, this is only year 3 for Johnson so hold the brakes a bit on that.  If after 5 years straight they improve, then yes can agree not a flash in the pan. 3 years is pushing it!.   The Lions also were also real bad for a number of years prior, so helped them get many high draft picks, won 10 games in 3 years total prior.

[SoTier]

28 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Daboll has never been a great OC at any point in his career. Ben Johnson transformed Goff into a top 10 QB and has built the most dominant offense in the league. And the offense has gotten better and better each year so it's not a flash in the plan. The respective resumes of those coaches are not close IMO.

 

That Johnson is a great coordinator doesn't mean that he will make a great HC.   Mike McDaniel was the "hot" OC, but his tenure as Fish HC has not been all that successful.    Steve Spagnulo is a great DC but he failed spectacularly as a HC in St Louis (10 wins in 3 seasons) despite his successful stint as DC for the Giants.  None of Belichick's coordinators have turned out to be even good HCs.

Edited November 5 by SoTier

[MJS]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

Ben johnson

Promising coordinators who get head coaching jobs fail all the time. It is a huge risk.

[HappyDays]

12 minutes ago, SoTier said:

That Johnson is a great coordinator doesn't mean that he will make a great HC. 

 

I don't disagree, and I'm intentionally not diving into my "fire McDermott" stance until the season is over. He's our coach right now so he has my support through the rest of the season. Just saying there is no comparison between Daboll and Johnson.

[BullBuchanan]

32 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

If Daboll was so bad, why was he a hot commodity for a HC job back then and everyone here was talking about how we're going to lose him at year end?  The Bills also improved when Daboll was here.  And BTW getting better each year, this is only year 3 for Johnson so hold the brakes a bit on that.  If after 5 years straight they improve, then yes can agree not a flash in the pan. 3 years is pushing it!.   The Lions also were also real bad for a number of years prior, so helped them get many high draft picks, won 10 games in 3 years total prior.

If Daboll was such a hot commodity, why did he take the worst HC opening in the league?

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

If Daboll was such a hot commodity, why did he take the worst HC opening in the league?

 

Because he was going in with a GM he knew and wasn't going to be warring with.

 

The previous year he made it clear the only job he wanted was the Chargers with Telesco who again, he knew. I think he was trying to choose his GM as much as his franchise. That might well have been a critical mistake.

[BADOLBILZ]

33 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

If Daboll was so bad, why was he a hot commodity for a HC job back then and everyone here was talking about how we're going to lose him at year end?  The Bills also improved when Daboll was here.  And BTW getting better each year, this is only year 3 for Johnson so hold the brakes a bit on that.  If after 5 years straight they improve, then yes can agree not a flash in the pan. 3 years is pushing it!.   The Lions also were also real bad for a number of years prior, so helped them get many high draft picks, won 10 games in 3 years total prior.

 

 

Daboll wasn't a hot commodity in 2022.  He got a couple interviews for jobs he wasn't getting.   He only got the Giants job because they had already hired a GM from Buffalo's front office.   Daboll had a LONG history of producing terrible offense's and subsequent firings as an NFL OC.  Including the 2018 sh!t show in Buffalo that was the lowest scoring offense the NFL had seen thru 8 games since the AFL/NFL merger.   When he's been bad he's been horrible.   Ben Johnson's trajectory has been nothing but upward.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Daboll wasn't a hot commodity in 2022.  He got a couple interviews for jobs he wasn't getting.   He only got the Giants job because they had already hired a GM from Buffalo's front office.   Daboll had a LONG history of producing terrible offense's and subsequent firings as an NFL OC.  Including the 2018 sh!t show in Buffalo that was the lowest scoring offense the NFL had seen thru 8 games since the AFL/NFL merger.   When he's been bad he's been horrible.   Ben Johnson's trajectory has been nothing but upward.

 

Regardless it proves nothing to the point that Ben Johnson will be a great HC.  There's a long list of similar failures.

[Bruffalo]

2 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

People say we should bring in Ben Johnson that would improve things.  How is Johnson any better than Daboll was 3 years ago when the Giants hired him.  How's that worked out? 

This probably isn't the popular opinion but I think the Giants offense has overperformed given the level of talent they're working with. I don't know if I put all the Giants woes on Daboll. 

 

Joe Schoen has been a disaster for them, I don't think that's arguable. 

[BullBuchanan]

4 minutes ago, Bruffalo said:

This probably isn't the popular opinion but I think the Giants offense has overperformed given the level of talent they're working with. I don't know if I put all the Giants woes on Daboll. 

 

Joe Schoen has been a disaster for them, I don't think that's arguable. 

Nabers is already a stud, Tracy has been a major hit, and Slayton and Singletary are no scrubs. Hell, I even see Jones throw really nice looking balls from time to time. There are definitely worse offensive talent pools in the league.

[GoBills808]

29 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

If Daboll was such a hot commodity, why did he take the worst HC opening in the league?

giants is a legacy job

 

primo owners

39 minutes ago, MJS said:

Promising coordinators who get head coaching jobs fail all the time. It is a huge risk.

it is

 

not saying it's foolproof by any stretch

[Dr. K]

2 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Well many say Ben Johnson and just make this assumption that because he is a very good to great OC, he'll be a great HC  (just like Daboll) And assume as long as you have a great QB which we do, a good OC will take care of the rest.  All he needs to do is "roll the balls out" as they say in basketball.

I can see that this is what those who argue for dumping McDermott believe, but I think they are underestimating his positive qualities and vastly underestimating the difficulties of making such a switch.

 

For instance, I think it's unlikely that Johnson or some other new coach is going to be able to consistently conjure up a top-ten defense, and get excellent play from defensive backs drafted in the 6th and 7th rounds or traded for from another team's backups, or to constantly deal with significant injuries without suffering a drastic decline in play, the way McDermott has for years. 

Edited November 5 by Dr. K

[sunshynman]

22 hours ago, DrMaxPower said:

Allen is discussed plenty in the article.

 

I personally believe this prevailing attitude that only the QB matters and everything else just falls into place is nonsense. It takes a village, even when you have a QB.

 

Plenty of good quarterbacks have crappy years on bad teams. Chicken or the egg scenario.

You need at least 3 game changing players on the team. And at least 1 on both offense and defense. 

 

We have Allen. Not sure we have one on D right now. Maybe if we get a healthy Milano back for the Playoffs. 

 

We have maybes in Cook, Kincaid, Shakir (close), Coleman, Davis, Cooper. All good. but just maybes for game changers currently. 

On D Groot, Benford, Bernard, Douglas, Rapp, Von. Again good, but no game changers. 

 

Jones and Oliver have not been great. 

Carter looked decent but got hurt.

I forget the other big DL #51, but noticed him a few times in the last game.

I'd like to see Solomon getting more reps as a pass rusher.

 

If we get health and sprinkle in a little luck, we could win the SB this year. 

Edited November 5 by sunshynman
words

[sunshynman]

21 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

Would you trade what we have done for what the Bengals have done? Multiple conferences title appearances and a Super Bowl appearance? 
 

Keep in mind they lost Burrow last year and still nearly made the playoffs. 
 

I don’t know how you couldn’t trade that. The AFC East champs is like being the fastest one legged man at this point. 

Still not good enough. Winning the SB is all that matters. 

[ganesh]

On 11/5/2024 at 5:17 AM, Mikie2times said:

Last thing I’m going to add to this. When teams march out Mason Rudolph, Geno Smith, a 90 year old Aaron Rogers, yes, it only matters that we have Josh. It is enough to win 3 out of 4 of those games as we have for a long time. Where the things you call out matter is when you face other great QB’s. Then you need the roster, the coaching, and the rest of it. Which is why we can’t get past the divisional round. 

very well said.  As I wrote in another thread....being "good" is not enough in the playoffs.  To win the SuperBowl you have to be great with a bit of luck.  You have to be excellent in all areas of play and coaching.  The playoffs (especially the final 7 games of the post-season) are intense chess matches and will strain you both physically and mentally.  You have to be super tough to come unscathed.   I hope and wish the Bills can raise up to the occassion and life the Lombardi.  Go Bills !!!!