What Is It With Elam?

[BananaB]

3 hours ago, FireChans said:

His injury only “showed up” after he made Trevor Lawrence look like Montana.

Our D makes just about everybody look like Montana. 

[billieve420]

Team should look to resign Benford and let Douglas walk in FA. Draft competition at CB position to compete with Elam is how I would handle things for next season. 

[That's No Moon]

35 minutes ago, Orlando Buffalo said:

Your point prior was that Benford is not that good when he is elite. In virtually every stat and using my own eyes Benford is elite. Every DB that starts more than 2 years for a McD defense becomes a pro bowler, I believe that is literally true. 

You and I differ on what elite is then. Is he our best corner? Absolutely. 

[ShakAttack]

What I like about Elam is he has a knack for taking the ball away. In limited appearances he has had a relatively high # of takeaways (including playoffs).  Just yesterday he had the fumble recovery and nearly had a HUGE forced fumble that would have changed the narrative on Elam today if it had counted. 

[Orlando Buffalo]

51 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

You and I differ on what elite is then. Is he our best corner? Absolutely. 

Can you name 3 CB who are clearly better than him? His stats are elite and while agree the eye test counts I have yet to see him look bad for even a quarter forget about a whole game 

[GaryPinC]

19 hours ago, Malazan said:

 

It's not that weird. He's playing behind two really, really good players.

It's still weird for me. 

Douglas 40 time:  4.59.

Benford 40 time:  4.53

Elam 40 time:       4.39

 

Yes, Douglas and Benford have overall played really well this season.  But we're trying to win a Super Bowl, Elam shows signs of being a playmaker and has never been given a consistent chance to log some minutes and get comfortable on the field.   He's got elite speed and noticeably more quickness to the ball than the other two.  He looked fine out there against Miami.

 

I like McD and want him to continue to be our coach.  I agree with his philosophy about making players earn it.  But, when you have a guy with Elam's potential, when Elam starts progressing in practice enough you tilt the scales a bit and cycle him on the field judiciously to see if you can accelerate his development.  He could have logged second half minutes in Seattle and Tennessee but didn't.   Not just EOG garbage time either.  

 

Douglas is also a potential FA after this season.  Another reason to give Elam more chances.

I respect McD's system, but worry he and it are short-sighted in terms of having our most talented playmakers developed to help win a Super Bowl now.  

[Nephilim17]

You can't pay everyone. I would take a chance with Elam as number 2 CB next year in order to pay for Josh's weapons (might have to extend Cooper or get someone else) and pay for proven D-line experience. Benford, Rousseau, Shakir might be extended and not a lot of cash left.

[That's No Moon]

2 minutes ago, Orlando Buffalo said:

Can you name 3 CB who are clearly better than him? His stats are elite and while agree the eye test counts I have yet to see him look bad for even a quarter forget about a whole game 

Off the top of my head McDuffie, Gardner, Jaire Alexander, Charvarius Ward, Patrick Surtain, Jaylon Johnson

 

A better way to do that is to go around the league and ask who would trade their top CB for Benford straight up.  Who would do it immediately? Who would consider it? Who would laugh and hang up the phone?

[GaryPinC]

19 hours ago, Lafromboise said:

Anybody thought it was weird none of the team went with him to celebrate after the recovery. Awkward. There were players that were trying to to tell him to go to the end zone for a celebration but everyone else just walked to the sideline.

Thanks for mentioning, that's weird too.  Gotta wonder if his personality isn't a team fit and is part of the problem.

[BillsShredder83]

20 hours ago, Shortchaz said:

He has a nose for the ball but seemingly isn’t a fit for our system 

This is the occam's razor answer if you ask me...... which in turn does make this a horrendous draft pick, massive failure at communication between Beane and McD...... we knew his system...... took him anyway....... he's shown plenty of flashes, and still isn't good enough to see the field?

 

What the hell would he have needed to do to be successful here than?  Unclear objective, unclear marker of success, drafted into a scenario where we literally had no chance to make this pick work....... and to that, we havent found a niche role for him to in a certain package, or a WR that commands 1 on 1 attention.

 

I love Beane, and im not a McD hater, but what in the actual **** was this..... as an aside, they really screwed this kid over too

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, That's No Moon said:

Off the top of my head McDuffie, Gardner, Jaire Alexander, Charvarius Ward, Patrick Surtain, Jaylon Johnson

 

A better way to do that is to go around the league and ask who would trade their top CB for Benford straight up.  Who would do it immediately? Who would consider it? Who would laugh and hang up the phone?

Benford has been loads better than Sauce this year imo.
 

Of that list you mentioned, I think the only two players with no debate for a straight up trade for Benford would be Surtain and Johnson. McDuffie is excellent but is a slot guy. Ward is older. Jaire is old. Gardner has the pedigree and previous performance but has suffered with Saleh’s departure.

[nemhoff]

28 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Benford has been loads better than Sauce this year imo.
 

Of that list you mentioned, I think the only two players with no debate for a straight up trade for Benford would be Surtain and Johnson. McDuffie is excellent but is a slot guy. Ward is older. Jaire is old. Gardner has the pedigree and previous performance but has suffered with Saleh’s departure.

If the refs actually call the abundance of holding/PI penalties that Sauce has on nearly every play then he becomes rather pedestrian.  The guy holds on every defensive play

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, GaryPinC said:

It's still weird for me. 

Douglas 40 time:  4.59.

Benford 40 time:  4.53

Elam 40 time:       4.39

 

Yes, Douglas and Benford have overall played really well this season.  But we're trying to win a Super Bowl, Elam shows signs of being a playmaker and has never been given a consistent chance to log some minutes and get comfortable on the field.   He's got elite speed and noticeably more quickness to the ball than the other two.  He looked fine out there against Miami.

 

I like McD and want him to continue to be our coach.  I agree with his philosophy about making players earn it.  But, when you have a guy with Elam's potential, when Elam starts progressing in practice enough you tilt the scales a bit and cycle him on the field judiciously to see if you can accelerate his development.  He could have logged second half minutes in Seattle and Tennessee but didn't.   Not just EOG garbage time either.  

 

Douglas is also a potential FA after this season.  Another reason to give Elam more chances.

I respect McD's system, but worry he and it are short-sighted in terms of having our most talented playmakers developed to help win a Super Bowl now.  

You’re using 40 time as evidence that Elam should be playing over Douglas and/or Benford?  
 

Both Douglas and Benford have been great.  Elam sits because they are better. 
 

 

[finn]

2 hours ago, ShakAttack said:

What I like about Elam is he has a knack for taking the ball away. In limited appearances he has had a relatively high # of takeaways (including playoffs).  Just yesterday he had the fumble recovery and nearly had a HUGE forced fumble that would have changed the narrative on Elam today if it had counted. 

You're right. Taron is the only other player in the secondary causing turnovers. Douglas has stone hands, Benford seems to have his back to the ball too much to intercept passes (no complaints; he's terrific in coverage), Rapp is more concerned with taking people's heads off, and Hamlin is too slow and playing too deep to catch passes that don't fall into his hands. I miss Poyer and Hyde. (And Nate Odomes.) Ingram has made some plays. 

[K-9]

22 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

When you take a guy in the 1st, you don't expect him to be no better than a backup

No, what you don't expect is for the 6th round pick to be the better player and force his way into the lineup. 

[bigduke6]

heres the problem with Elam.  hes a straight man corner who struggles in zone,  of which this defense plays a majority of its snaps.   now hes also behind 2 solid going on great corners.  i have zero issue with Elam,  hes a playmaker who gets handsy at times,  but if he cant play within what the coaches want for their system,  well hes a waste then.   maybe Beane and McD thought they could coach some zone into Elam,  and it just hasnt taken,  dunno,  but you cant deny that Elam has the speed,  length and playmaking ability to be a starting corner in this league somewhere.  as with most things in life,  its all about fit.

Edited November 4 by bigduke6

[WideNine]

23 hours ago, Shortchaz said:

He has a nose for the ball but seemingly isn’t a fit for our system 

I think it may be more this along with the play (in our system) of some of the guys in front of him.

He excels more at press man-coverage and less so as a zone DB that understands spacing an where he needs to be at all times.

That being said, it would be nice to have a lock-down corner that could take away their "guy" and allow us to play some single-high and add some help in the box to stop the runs and short passes from turning into long-gainers.

 

 

[Shortchaz]

1 minute ago, WideNine said:

I think it may be more this along with the play (in our system) of some of the guys in front of him.

He excels more at press man-coverage and less so as a zone DB that understands spacing an where he needs to be at all times.

That being said, it would be nice to have a lock-down corner that could take away their "guy" and allow us to play some single-high and add some help in the box to stop the runs and short passes from turning into long-gainers.

 

 

I think some coaches shape the scheme to fit the talent (or have some flexibility) where McDermott has a scheme and is rigid. Our best 11 are probably not on the field together as often as they would be on other teams. it’s a team mentality concept that (chicken/egg) might hinder the top end talent we have/get/find 

[That's No Moon]

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

Benford has been loads better than Sauce this year imo.
 

Of that list you mentioned, I think the only two players with no debate for a straight up trade for Benford would be Surtain and Johnson. McDuffie is excellent but is a slot guy. Ward is older. Jaire is old. Gardner has the pedigree and previous performance but has suffered with Saleh’s departure.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

I thought he played fine in this game all things considered - healthy tua, and 2 healthy prolific WRs.  It's not like he got Huntley or something. 

 

Hill got behind him on one.  Without seeing a full view I'm not sure if he bit on a double move in cover 3, or if this was a disguised cover 2 and you try to bait the hole shot.  

 

He also dove on a fumble and made a huge play.  He tried to rip another one out, and made a solid edge tackle on another run.  He's not starting because Benford and Douglas are ahead of him on the depth chart, and have not done anything to lose their position on the depth chart.