What Is It With Elam?

[GASabresIUFan]

4 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

Yeah, but McD does love him some slow, no draft pedigree, DBs.

Considering McD's track record with DBs, I think we can defer to his judgement.

[That's No Moon]

16 minutes ago, GASabresIUFan said:

Considering McD's track record with DBs, I think we can defer to his judgement.

Yes, but also no. He gets a lot of production from low rated players which certainly has value but when we play teams with a lot of speed we tend to struggle.  Christian Benford, for example, is a nice value guy but he's not going to be a Pro Bowl level corner at any point.  You draft Elam to be that guy and it's disappointing that it hasn't worked out. Dane Jackson was similar as was Levi Wallace.  Great value, but very average NFL corners at the end of the day. Damar Hamlin is a very average safety and it remains to be seen what his higher pedigree teammate (Bishop) becomes because right now it's not a lot.

Edited November 4 by That's No Moon

[pennstate10]

8 hours ago, Simon said:

 

I don't think you're wrong that it would be tricky for him, but the fact that the coaches won't even let him really try is a bit odd to me.

Call me crazy, but i think Bills coaches are giving him a chance to show how he transitions and plays different coverages in practice. 

[Brand J]

I like Elam starting at CB more than I like Hamlin starting at FS. Also, let’s be glad no one took Beane’s calls to trade up for Cole Bishop in the 2nd, because there’s a good chance Ray Davis wouldn’t be on this team. 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, That's No Moon said:

Yes, but also no. He gets a lot of production from low rated players which certainly has value but when we play teams with a lot of speed we tend to struggle.  Christian Benford, for example, is a nice value guy but he's not going to be a Pro Bowl level corner at any point.  You draft Elam to be that guy and it's disappointing that it hasn't worked out. Dane Jackson was similar as was Levi Wallace.  Great value, but very average NFL corners at the end of the day. Damar Hamlin is a very average safety and it remains to be seen what his higher pedigree teammate (Bishop) becomes because right now it's not a lot.

 

I disagree wholeheartedly with this. Hell, he is playing a Pro Bowl level this year. He has been the second best player on the team after Allen and in the first Miami game he basically went 1v1 with Hill and erased him. I don't disagree with your point with regards to Levi and Dane. But Benford is not in that category. He went late not because he is a substandard athlete but because he played at Vilanova. 

 

If you need further proof of the point, RAS scores:

Levi Wallace - 2.71

Dane Jackson - 4.45

Christian Benford - 8.14

Kaiir Elam - 8.64

 

Benford is much closer to Elam as an athletic talent than he is Wallace and Jackson. He should be the Bills' priority extension after this season. He is going to get PAID.

 

Edited November 4 by GunnerBill

[TheWeatherMan]

11 hours ago, st pete gogolak said:

The guy is a mystery wrapped in a riddle  wrapped in an enigma.  Is he in the doghouse for some reason?  Yet, when he plays he plays well (other than last year against JAX in London) and he makes big plays.  Weirdest situation ever.

He’s a press corner, not a fit for McD’s quasi prevent defensive scheme.  

[Ethan in Cleveland]

12 hours ago, FireChans said:

Elam is what he has been since he joined the team.

 

-a bad scheme fit

 

-A weird locker room issue where some coaches seem to hate him

 

-a backup level player on this defense.

 

Folks really are gonna buy back into “he will start next year.”

 

He won’t. He’s a backup on this team at best. McD and co thought DANE JACKSON was better than him. He was boundary CB4 LAST YEAR, behind Tre, Dane and Benford. 

 

When Tre went down, they threw Elam out there and he played HORRIBLE against Jacksonville. So they stashed him on IR and traded for Douglas. He’s not just unlucky he’s behind Benford and Douglas. McD and co have actively found other players to play over him.

 

And they will again next year.

 

He is a backup until he walks in FA. If Dane Jackson was still here, we all know he starts over Elam. There’s no reason to keep pretending otherwise.

He was hurt last year. Injured his foot in training camp. 

Other than one play yesterday, he played ok. And he almost recovered on that play to knock it away. Douglas gave up as many or more catches as Elam did.

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

3 hours ago, TheWeatherMan said:

He’s a press corner, not a fit for McD’s quasi prevent defensive scheme.  

Aren’t many defenses in the league that play mostly man.

[FireChans]

56 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

He was hurt last year. Injured his foot in training camp. 

Other than one play yesterday, he played ok. And he almost recovered on that play to knock it away. Douglas gave up as many or more catches as Elam did.

 

His injury only “showed up” after he made Trevor Lawrence look like Montana.

[fasteddie]

13 hours ago, Success said:

For the record - Elam did not get "burned" on the long Hill completion.  He played it pretty well - it was just a great throw and catch.

 

Hill was not his man. Hill's defender fell down and Elam ran more than half the width of the field to try and cover him. He was just a tick late.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

5 minutes ago, FireChans said:

His injury only “showed up” after he made Trevor Lawrence look like Montana.

Yes but it's well known he was hurt in camp

1 minute ago, fasteddie said:

Hill was not his man. Hill's defender fell down and Elam ran more than half the width of the field to try and cover him. He was just a tick late.

Wow. I didn't see that on TV. That makes Elam's day even better.

[SectionC3]

6 hours ago, That's No Moon said:

Yes, but also no. He gets a lot of production from low rated players which certainly has value but when we play teams with a lot of speed we tend to struggle.  Christian Benford, for example, is a nice value guy but he's not going to be a Pro Bowl level corner at any point.  You draft Elam to be that guy and it's disappointing that it hasn't worked out. Dane Jackson was similar as was Levi Wallace.  Great value, but very average NFL corners at the end of the day. Damar Hamlin is a very average safety and it remains to be seen what his higher pedigree teammate (Bishop) becomes because right now it's not a lot.

Strongly disagree.  He might be a Pro Bowl caliber corner now. 

3 minutes ago, fasteddie said:

Hill was not his man. Hill's defender fell down and Elam ran more than half the width of the field to try and cover him. He was just a tick late.

I'm not sure about this.  Watching it live from the other end of the stadium it looked like Elam got cooked on a wheel for what should have been a touchdown had Tua not grossly under thrown the ball.  

[GASabresIUFan]

6 hours ago, That's No Moon said:

Christian Benford, for example, is a nice value guy but he's not going to be a Pro Bowl level corner at any point.

Completely wrong.  Benford is a pro-bowl level corner right now.  Tre White was also a pro-bowl level player as an early round pick. 
 

Elam has been a bust so far.   An unusual mistake by McBeane on a DB, but he is going to get his shot next season to prove everyone wrong.  
 

Bishop, had it not been for injuries is probably the starter already.  I do agree that Hamlin isn’t the same player he was before he was injured.  Also last I looked Hyde and Poyer were cast offs from their prior teams and developed into pro-bowlers under McD.  
 

 

Edited November 4 by GASabresIUFan

[fasteddie]

1 minute ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Yes but it's well known he was hurt in camp

Wow. I didn't see that on TV. That makes Elam's day even better.

That's one of the good things being at the stadium. TV directors seldom show the reason why a man gets so wide open. They would rather show a close up of the head coach staring into space. Drives me nuts!

[SoMAn]

2 words: he blows

[finn]

6 hours ago, Brand J said:

I like Elam starting at CB more than I like Hamlin starting at FS. Also, let’s be glad no one took Beane’s calls to trade up for Cole Bishop in the 2nd, because there’s a good chance Ray Davis wouldn’t be on this team. 

Yeah, I wish he would stifle his impulse to trade up, in part because he likely would have nailed the picks he gives away to move up. That fourth for Elam and the fourth for Kincaid are two examples that are obvious, albeit in hindsight. 

[warrior9]

15 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

This.  Like nothing more needs to be said 

That Sooner's guy just doesn't understand that if you go into a draft and get 2 CB's and one comes out an All-Pro (seemingly so far this year) and one comes out a good player, you win. If we didn't have Douglas playing at the level he is, Elam would be starting.

 

The guy is so enamored with draft places that he's upset Elam isn't playing because he was taken before Benford who is out playing him (at the best level in the league).... it's very very weird. 

[That's No Moon]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFan said:

Completely wrong.  Benford is a pro-bowl level corner right now.  Tre White was also a pro-bowl level player as an early round pick. 
 

Elam has been a bust so far.   An unusual mistake by McBeane on a DB, but he is going to get his shot next season to prove everyone wrong.  
 

Bishop, had it not been for injuries is probably the starter already.  I do agree that Hamlin isn’t the same player he was before he was injured.  Also last I looked Hyde and Poyer were cast offs from their prior teams and developed into pro-bowlers under McD.  
 

 

Hyde wasn't a cast off at all. Poyer was. White being a Pro Bowl player as a first round choice is sort of my point though. 

[NewEra]

18 hours ago, st pete gogolak said:

The guy is a mystery wrapped in a riddle  wrapped in an enigma.  Is he in the doghouse for some reason?  Yet, when he plays he plays well (other than last year against JAX in London) and he makes big plays.  Weirdest situation ever.

Is he in the doghouse?  Or is he just not good enough to beat out Benford and Douglas?  We aren’t going to take snaps away from either of those studs to help Elam develop

[Orlando Buffalo]

9 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

Hyde wasn't a cast off at all. Poyer was. White being a Pro Bowl player as a first round choice is sort of my point though. 

Your point prior was that Benford is not that good when he is elite. In virtually every stat and using my own eyes Benford is elite. Every DB that starts more than 2 years for a McD defense becomes a pro bowler, I believe that is literally true.