Cook/Shakir/Oliver/Benford vs Hall/Wilson/Williams/Gardner

[NoSaint]

5 hours ago, folz said:

 

From week 1 of the 2023 season until now---week 8 of 2024 (last 25 NFL games) James Cook is 4th in yards from scrimmage for running backs. Now, of course, guys get injured (for instance McCaffrey is a much better RB, but is lower on the list due to being injured, and obviously, some offenses are better than others). But still, Cook has to still be in the top 10 at least if you are talking about right now and not say career/past history. Are there really 10 guys on that list that you would put ahead of Cook right now? I think I'd only put like 4-5 guys ahead of him right now. [Interesting that the number one spot goes to Breece Hall. Also note that Cook has the 4th fewest touches of the top 18 guys. For instance, if you pro-rate Cook's yards per touch to the number of touches Breece has, Cook would have 2,527 yards. If you pro-rated all of the players to 460 touches, Cook would be in 3rd---behind only Jamyr Gibbs and Christian McCaffrey.]

 

Yards from scrimmage for RBs (2023-2024) [and number of touches]

1. Breece Hall 2,414               [460 touches]

2. Derrick Henry 2,393        [461]

3. Bijan Robinson 2,253       [419]

4. James Cook 2,164             [394]

5. Joe Mixon 2,134                [449]

6. Saquan Barkley 2,114        [435]

7. Rachaad White 2,031        [431]

8. C. McCaffrey 2,023          [339] 

9. Jamyr Gibbs 2,006            [345]

10, Kyren Williams 1,973        [418]

11. Alvin Kamara 1,972           [416]

12. Najee Harris 1,949           [437]

13. Tony Pollard 1,919            [442]

14. James Conner 1,917         [380]

15. D'Andre Swift 1,910           [396]

16. Josh Jacobs 1,883            [432]

17. Chubba Hubbard 1,836     [419]

18. Travis Etienne 1,805          [397]

19. David Montgomery 1,685  [342]

20. Ken Walker 1,672              [349]

21. Brian Robinson 1,641         [324]

22. Aaron Jones 1,617             [298]

 

yea, though I’d suspect some portion of those is breece getting short yardage and goal line touches that cook didn’t. Also against stacked boxes with junk quarterbacks. Also in his first games back from injury. Also with Hackett as OC
 

honestly I don’t think the two are far off each other though. 
 

To those saying he has no vision and it’s just wide open lanes - we should scheme up some of them for cook I guess. 

[Thurman#1]

IMO the Jets group is just a bit better, with the possible exception of Benford, who has taken another major leap forward. But the Bills group is also very good.

 

But the Jets system is holding back those players while the Bills system is supporting theirs and producing improvements, on and off the field.

 

It's hard to improve in a team sport with a crappy environment.

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, NoSaint said:

yea, though I’d suspect some portion of those is breece getting short yardage and goal line touches that cook didn’t. Also against stacked boxes with junk quarterbacks. Also in his first games back from injury. Also with Hackett as OC
 

honestly I don’t think the two are far off each other though. 
 

To those saying he has no vision and it’s just wide open lanes - we should scheme up some of them for cook I guess. 

 

Or Hall just being wildly overrated?

38 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

It's hard to improve in a team sport with a crappy environment.

 

This is completely true. You can't win without talent but you can't maximise talent without culture.

[BuffaloBillyG]

On 10/31/2024 at 11:50 PM, Mikie2times said:

I would take Cook over Hall but past that the 3 Jets players rightfully get more credit. 

Maybe I'm nuts but I gladly would take Benford over Sauce. Gardner has the cool nickname and is a loudmouth. That's it. I believe he has as many career INTs as Damar and AJE do. 

 

I like Benford s coverage skills better. Seems like a smarter player.

[ROCBillsBeliever]

On 10/31/2024 at 9:39 PM, Chugga said:

I know it’s a tale as old as time, but one of my biggest pet peeves as a Bills fan is the fact that the two groups of players listed in the subject of this topic are discussed in totally different terms.

 

I’ve watched games where Wilson has been silent (or drops balls), Hall has been stuffed, Sauce can’t tackle and these guys are viewed as all pro talent regardless of any of their faults.  Don’t get me wrong I’m not saying they aren’t talented players.  Williams in particular is a beast but Benford since he was a rookie has been absolutely lights out when healthy and you can’t find an analyst in the world that will put Benford in the same conversation as Sauce.  The Jets tried to manufacture a 1,000 yard season for Hall (they failed) and yet general consensus is Hall is a top 5 RB in the league.  Cook coasted to 1,100 yards that same season.

 

Am I the crazy one?  Are these average talents and I’m just wearing homer goggles?  Because I swear what I see on Sunday out of Shakir & Benford in particular is insanely high quality play.

 

I feel ya. And the answer is both simple and sad:

 

1) The New Jersey Jests drafted higher than us.

2) The Draft Prognosticators and talking heads like being right.
 

3) Therefore, the Draft Prognosticators and talking heads pump up the picks they picked, pressing them on the mindscape of everyone who follows football.

 

4) When these talking progs are wrong, they don't give up; they don't admit they're wrong; these tools laugh in the face of statistics... They just push their turds harder, so we hear more and more about Hall / Wilson / Williams / Gardner, and less and less about our boys.

 

Narrative... That's all it is.

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Maybe I'm nuts but I gladly would take Benford over Sauce. Gardner has the cool nickname and is a loudmouth. That's it. I believe he has as many career INTs as Damar and AJE do. 

 

I like Benford s coverage skills better. Seems like a smarter player.

 

I disagree with this and I am a huge Benford fan. I predicted he'd win the job last year when he went into camp in competition with Elam and Jackson. But Sauce is an elite talent. If you want to say Benford has played better in 2024 so far, I think that is true. But Sauce has been great his first two years.

[balln]

18 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I disagree with this and I am a huge Benford fan. I predicted he'd win the job last year when he went into camp in competition with Elam and Jackson. But Sauce is an elite talent. If you want to say Benford has played better in 2024 so far, I think that is true. But Sauce has been great his first two years.

Benford grades out at 75

sauce grades out at 64 

 

so. Yea. Benford been bettter this year - matches the eye test. Sauce is all hype now

[JerseyBills]

Benford is definitely a top 10 cb.

 

Possibly top 5.

 

[sven233]

I like our guys, I really do.  But I think Wilson is becoming one of the best WRs in the league.  Williams is a better all around player than Oliver, although I like Oliver a lot.  Hall and Cook are a wash to me.  And Benford vs Sauce is yet to be determined in my opinion.  Benford is having a much better season this year, but I still think it is too early to call.  That said, a top 5 pick vs a 6th rounder even being close is awesome for us.

[BullBuchanan]

On 10/31/2024 at 8:39 PM, Chugga said:

I know it’s a tale as old as time, but one of my biggest pet peeves as a Bills fan is the fact that the two groups of players listed in the subject of this topic are discussed in totally different terms.

 

I’ve watched games where Wilson has been silent (or drops balls), Hall has been stuffed, Sauce can’t tackle and these guys are viewed as all pro talent regardless of any of their faults.  Don’t get me wrong I’m not saying they aren’t talented players.  Williams in particular is a beast but Benford since he was a rookie has been absolutely lights out when healthy and you can’t find an analyst in the world that will put Benford in the same conversation as Sauce.  The Jets tried to manufacture a 1,000 yard season for Hall (they failed) and yet general consensus is Hall is a top 5 RB in the league.  Cook coasted to 1,100 yards that same season.

 

Am I the crazy one?  Are these average talents and I’m just wearing homer goggles?  Because I swear what I see on Sunday out of Shakir & Benford in particular is insanely high quality play.

Each one of the jets players listed is significantly superior. The difference is the Bills have a much better team overall and don't have a cancer at QB. Cook isn't Cook on the Jets.

[BuffaloBillyG]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I disagree with this and I am a huge Benford fan. I predicted he'd win the job last year when he went into camp in competition with Elam and Jackson. But Sauce is an elite talent. If you want to say Benford has played better in 2024 so far, I think that is true. But Sauce has been great his first two years.

I disagree with your disagreement. I think where they started as rookies Sauce was obviously better. He was at or close to his ceiling when he came in. Benford as steadily gotten better and has seemed to pass Gardner. And he doesn't have to grab players all the time to do it.

[Thurman#1]

7 hours ago, balln said:

Benford grades out at 75

sauce grades out at 64 

 

so. Yea. Benford been bettter this year - matches the eye test. Sauce is all hype now

 

 

In one opinion, presumably PFF's?

 

Sauce is, again, a very good player playing in a crappy environment. Put him in a defense that's firing on all cylinders and he'd look much better than he's looking now.

 

If you think Benford has been better, well, that's maybe something reasonable people could disagree over. But Sauce is all hype? Not even close.

4 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Each one of the jets players listed is significantly superior. The difference is the Bills have a much better team overall and don't have a cancer at QB. Cook isn't Cook on the Jets.

 

 

This is pretty reasonable. And it sure looks like you're on target about the QB. Which couldn't happen to a nicer team.

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Each one of the jets players listed is significantly superior. The difference is the Bills have a much better team overall and don't have a cancer at QB. Cook isn't Cook on the Jets.

 

Cook would be better than Hall everywhere.

[Nelius]

Everybody’s been waiting for 3 years now for Breece Hall to take over. It’s not happening. He’ll be lucky to put up Matt Forte numbers once in his career.